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Originally posted by nativeokie
I have a question. MSNBC is now running ads that Rita Cosby
will not only be there to report she is a witness to the execution. Is that normal? Are reporters invited to view the execution?
Just wondering as she will surely describe it in graphic detail what occurs.
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
And I'm not going to give you the ammo. If I'm wrong and you are right, convince me. Or better yet, convince the lurkers who are making up their own minds by reading our exchange.
Would my views be invalidated by my age or political affiliation?
39. non-republican.
Originally posted by plague
why do people not believe in the death penelty????
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
.
When you hear a death-penalty opponent say "they should be locked away for the rest of their lives," they are glossing over the fact that they are advocating keeping the criminal active as a force of evil for the rest of their lives. And giving them chances to increase human misery for the rest of ALL our lives.
Originally posted by goose
...... with all of your self righteous undignified gluttony for someones death. [edit on 13-12-2005 by goose]
Originally posted by DigitalGrl
why should i have to pay from some heinous criminal to be put away for -life?
look at tookie, he killed people, yet he got to watch tv, write books, get nominated for prizes, talk to celebrities, hear music. people starving in third world countries are treated with less luxuries than he was.
Kind Regards,
Digitalgrl
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Originally posted by goose
...... with all of your self righteous undignified gluttony for someones death. [edit on 13-12-2005 by goose]
Self righteous? I would say that someone is self-righteous when he or she doesn't believe other peole are entitled to their own opinions.
Gluttony? Because I think that a murderer's own life ought to be forfeit, so that he cannot continue to victimize society? Or am I a glutton because I am as hungry for my particular vision of justice as you are for your own?
As far as "undignified" goes,
-The quality or state of being unworthy of esteem or respect
-unrefined, indecorous, unseemly, inappropriate, foolish, unladylike, ungentlemanly, unbecoming, petty.
Originally posted by Boatphone
The families of those he killed would really suffer if his sentance was not carried out, and they have said so.
Originally posted by NinjaCodeMonkey
I hope he gets fried, kill and be killed.
Originally posted by Toelint
Tex, the only problem with your theory of Life Without The Possibility Of Parole, is that a "Lifer" sentence doesn't really exist.
Originally posted by thermopolis
Christ could have saved the two thieves he was with but did not.
Originally posted by Toelint
It's interesting how some around the world consider the United States as the premier killer of it's inmates. The fact is, the death penalty thrives in Africa and the Mideast, and also in Asia.
The death penalty is NOT about slowing crime. It's not about redeeming a soul. It's not about revenge for the dead. It's about JUSTICE. As long as Williams lives, there's a chance for him to get out, after which he most certianly WILL return to his old ways, but now with a free hand to run his gangs.
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Punishing the guilty is ALWAYS good for society.
Liberalism always focuses on the perpetrators instead of the victims...
(snip)But again, the shrieks of outrage only come when the guilty are about to die. When the innocent were slaughtered, there are never any liberals around to complain.
We have high crime because we have low justice. And no retribution.
And even if they kill him, they'll try to be humane, and use a lot of dangerous chemicals or put him to sleep. Again, spending thousands on the guilty, while the families of the victims buried their own.
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Justice and Mercy are two sides to the same coin. Justice without mercy is villainy. But Mercy without justice is perfidy; since it is a betrayal of the government's duty to defend the victims.
People who feel he deserves clemency don't really care about justice, they care about defeating the death penalty.
So what, does this mean that we should do away with the death penalty, merely because it is imperfectly applied????
What about speeding tickets? if I can find 100 people that were innocent, but who got tickets anyway, are you then prepared to do away with all traffic violation penalties?
I agree that it is horrible to see an innocent person lose his life; that's why I'm bothered by the FOUR people tookie seems to have killed.
My point was (and continues to be) this: The fact that we imperfectly apply a law is not sufficient reason to NEVER enforce the law.
If there are problems with the law's application, with the ADMINISTRATION of justice, then by all means, let's improve those facets of the process.
Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
The fact that this is even discussed is even more evidence that the society is nearing moral bankruptcy; when right and wrong are indistinguishable in the minds of so many...(snip)
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Cicero, in his book On Rhetoric, talked about the question of whether it is worse for some innocents to be punished along with the guilty, or for a few of the guilty to go unpunished.
For my part, I think it is worse for the guilty to go unpunished. This state of affairs only encourages more heinous crime, and allows the guilty to have more chances at perpetrating it.
In the 50's and 60's many states began outlawing capital punisment, because the public felt it was not appropriate. But beginning in the 1990's, the states began re-instituting it. Why, because the general feeling has become that there is not enough punishment to keep our society civil and safe..
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
I know that the current PC attitude is to view our ancestors as rubes and barbarians. I believe that they understood basic human drives and needs far better than we....
Punishment of criminals re-affirms the propriety of law and order. When criminals are punished, we affirm the rightness of those who obey the laws.
Take a look at Singapore. While I don't choose to live there, and don't agree with some of their laws, it is also true that they have the lowest crime rate of any developed nation, and the cleanest state as well--a quality that matters greatly to them.
How do they achieve this? In part, through public punishments: from civil service work crews to pick up garbage, to public canings, right up to public hanging.
Now, we in America will never choose to live that way. But one of the effective ways to lower the crime rate is to make punishment a credible threat.
Julianni acheived a similar feat in New York City. Of course, he was able to do it without using spectacular punishments. Instead, he put beat cops on foot patrol, and had them enforce the littering and graffiti laws.
So, it's not that capital punishment is the ONLY way to return to a civil society. But it's certainly an effective start.
If you read up on the federal and state prison systems, you'll see that "locking them away forever" doesn't really happen.
Second, hard-core inmates continue to abuse people. They abuse lesser criminals they are housed with. A little HBO or "American Justice" with Bill Curtisse will show you all of the rapes, the prison-yard killings, the drug smuggling and gang activity...(snip)
(snip)...Hard-core criminals abuse the guards. Throwing urine and feces at them. Raping and killing them during riots. Threatening their families. Bribing them.
Escape is a whole sepearte problem.
Third, there's the whole issue of "re-classification." Where prisoners are released without serving their whole sentence. Or where the sentence is toned down. Someone else already mentioned Charles Manson, who in 1974 was sentenced to "Life without possibility of parole." He started getting regular parole hearings in the 80's, and then about 5 years ago was moved to a "more comfortable prison." This guy ordered the deaths of 10 people that we know about, and claims to have done or ordered a total of 31 killings. The last footage I saw of him on the news was of him playing ping-pong with one of his guards.
When you hear a death-penalty opponent say "they should be locked away for the rest of their lives," they are glossing over the fact that they are advocating keeping the criminal active as a force of evil for the rest of their lives. And giving them chances to increase human misery for the rest of ALL our lives.