Originally posted by zoso28

"The US is responsible for keeping the free world free."

Apparently the sentence isn't complete, typo, oppsie. Let me finish it up for you:

---The US is responsible for keeping the free world free of true human rights, individual equality and economic independence---

There you go, all better!!! Oh don't thank me.

"The US is nearly the sole protectors of freedom and democracy as we know it today."

Don't forget about Hitler. Nazis were protector of freedom too by "liberating" the Frenchies from their evil government. But damn, i don't have any proof, but i will claim it to be truth anyways.

"The US is the most charitable nation the world has ever known."

Bet your ass it is. $1000 million worth of military supples are given as charity to Israel each year!!! Go USA!!!

And the Israelis used those money and gave free moving services to the Palestinians so they can move to refugee camps without running water and electrcity. Well, embracing the mother nature was trendy those days.

Who ever said that camping isn't popular in middle east and only Americans and Canadians do it? Currently 400000 Arabians are camping RIGHT NOW. Sleeping bags must be a huge business there.

"All the free democratic nations that exist today do so because of the blanket of security the US provides."

Blanket of security from what? Marsian invasion? As far as i concern the Marsians won't attack earth until the year 2500. Americans sure can look at the large picture.

"The US is a society and people based upon liberty, freedom, and justice."

And no one else do?

Too bad the Americans didn't expand the "Liberty and freedom" into South Amaerica when they got there in the 50S.

Justice? A black boy was sent to prison for 14 years for kissing a white girl. KKK would be proud: "Justice is served."

"There is an endless supply of young men and women in the US who will continue to volunteer to defend freedom."

Last time i checked US only had 273 000 000 people. And last time i read, Ameria only had volunteers in WWII, and in Vietnam there were draft burners.

"Sleep well knowing you are protected."

All Americans sleep well knowing they have a pump shotgun under their pillows. Me? I sleep well knowing my country has a couple of nukes if the GI comes for the holidays and decides to do cowboy hee haw.


[edit on 14-12-2005 by EarthUnificationFrontier]

I hate the US, but would i equip myself a stanley knife and hijack a plane and crash it into the world trade center? Of course not!!!

USA didn't dare screw up my country in the Gulf War, Cold War and whatever 100 other wars it has been involved in. And my family and ancestors weren't driven to be refugees by US either. Why would i do such a thing?

You know people don't just hate you for no reason, they don't just wake up one morning and say to themselves, :"Hmmm, guess i will start hating and critizing USA starting today!"

What will you acomplish with hate?
If you hate some one dont expect him to talk to you, guess thats how people end up in the corner ignored by every one.
How can you hate a country or some one that lives his life and has nothing to do with you, a regular citisen that you dont even know that just go's
about his life and never done anithing to you and your family.
This is how fanatics are boren, i may not agree with the policy of the us administration but that does not mean that we have to go and start hate americans or america , what hate them for what, for living their life? hate them cause they are not like you? or cause they dont act like you want them to?





[edit on 14-12-2005 by pepsi78]

[edit on 14-12-2005 by pepsi78]

post deleted it , it was double

[edit on 14-12-2005 by pepsi78]

Right so, in an utopian nation the ones doing all the work will resent the ones slacking off and buddy capitalism is introduced.

Is there historical example and proof of this?

Coz for the other half of the story, the unhappy working class would be abused and exploited by the middle and ruling class that the larger working class would eventually overthrow them and set up a communist governement.

It happened in Russia, happened in Cuba, happened in China, happened in Vietnam.

Russia abolished communism becaue of its financial incapability in the Cold War was not efficient of keeping up with the Arms and Space Race.

China had reforms in the 70s because of Deng and his moderates.

Do i need to say Cuba and Vietnam? Cuba is a beautiful and happy communist country where the people has excellent health care, the gov provides them with homes to live in, food to eat etc

Vietnam? US screwed them over in the 60s but they are getting there.

As far as i concern, zoso you sure speak a lot of crap, but you never have any historical sources, statistics to back them up. I doubt you ever even taken history, economics or politics classes.

Well, lets be honest. The U.S did help us put back the Germans twice, and help save Europe from tyranny. But...it should also be pointed out, that they didn't go and help us in the beginning, like they should've done.
OH NO! They waited. They waited till both powers were exhausted and just stolled in, revelling in the glory for trampling all over Germany. Not only did they benefit for being hailed the victors, but they also benefited by loaning "allies " money, making sure that we'd be in debt to them forever and a day. Course, I'm bloody grateful they did come into it, but I wished that they didn't serve their selfish needs, and looked at helping stop Hitler then! Would less people have died if America intervened earlier? Who knows? Another thread, another time.
On the subject of democratic America, it was a nice idea. Just doesn't work when all the people who work for the government are all greedy wee fudds. Unlucky for you.

Talk? Are the Americans ever capable of that?

Look at earlier posts on the Soviet summit meetings in the peaceful co existence era, and the breakdown of the Paris summit.

The whole world tried to "talk" to the US about reducing pollution and sign the Kyoto Agreement, sure the Americans talked, : "No."

No i don't hate the normal average joes in US. They make great rock music, they write good novels, they make good video games.

What i hate is the Amerian government, and the Americans with an arrogant nose stuck up in the air thinking their nation is all righteous and just and fair and the greatest in the world, and the entire planet owes their debt to them.

The truth is? We dont.

You folks are missing the point. The original poster asked the question "Where would the world be without the US?" or some such wording. My apologies, it's early.

The answer is simple.

It would be 93 million or so miles from the Sun! This is exactly where it's been for the past 4 billion years or so. The rest is background noise.

So, get over it.

EarthUnificationFrontier do you hate my girlfriend and my future wife
she is american and i'm sort of too cause i grew up there.
Do you hate her , do you even know her?
What is it with you people but you know what i think u'r just trolling.

Originally posted by zoso28

"The US is responsible for keeping the free world free."

Apparently the sentence isn't complete, typo, oppsie. Let me finish it up for you:

---The US is responsible for keeping the free world free of true human rights, individual equality and economic independence---

There you go, all better!!! Oh don't thank me.

"The US is nearly the sole protectors of freedom and democracy as we know it today."

Don't forget about Hitler. Nazis were protector of freedom too by "liberating" the Frenchies from their evil government. But damn, i don't have any proof, but i will claim it to be truth anyways.

"The US is the most charitable nation the world has ever known."

Bet your ass it is. $1000 million worth of military supples are given as charity to Israel each year!!! Go USA!!!

And the Israelis used those money and gave free moving services to the Palestinians so they can move to refugee camps without running water and electrcity. Well, embracing the mother nature was trendy those days.

Who ever said that camping isn't popular in middle east and only Americans and Canadians do it? Currently 400000 Arabians are camping RIGHT NOW. Sleeping bags must be a huge business there.

"All the free democratic nations that exist today do so because of the blanket of security the US provides."

Blanket of security from what? Marsian invasion? As far as i concern the Marsians won't attack earth until the year 2500. Americans sure can look at the large picture.

"The US is a society and people based upon liberty, freedom, and justice."

And no one else do?

Too bad the Americans didn't expand the "Liberty and freedom" into South Amaerica when they got there in the 50S.

Justice? A black boy was sent to prison for 14 years for kissing a white girl. KKK would be proud: "Justice is served."

"There is an endless supply of young men and women in the US who will continue to volunteer to defend freedom."

Last time i checked US only had 273 000 000 people. And last time i read, Ameria only had volunteers in WWII, and in Vietnam there were draft burners.

"Sleep well knowing you are protected."

All Americans sleep well knowing they have a pump shotgun under their pillows. Me? I sleep well knowing my country has a couple of nukes if the GI comes for the holidays and decides to do cowboy hee haw.

Originally Quoted by Zoso28

“And the US is the only country threatened by terrorists. Do i even need to respond to that. The US is realitive new comers to terrorists attacks. Terrorists attack because they are evil, ignorant(the suicide bombers that is), and brain washed. Bottom line. Would you as a US hater, conduct a suicide bombing in the US. I think not, because you are a decent, inteligent and free thinking person.”

I hate the US, but would i equip myself a stanley knife and hijack a plane and crash it into the world trade center? Of course not!!!

USA didn't dare screw up my country in the Gulf War, Cold War and whatever 100 other wars it has been involved in. And my family and ancestors weren't driven to be refugees by US either. Why would i do such a thing?

Originally Quoted by Zoso28

“If you want to be a communist or utopianist or whatever they call themselves these days go ahead. Create your own utopian society and if it is succesful it will be the 1st. But eventually, the ones who are doing all the work will resent the ones who are slacking and guess what you got. Free trade and capitalism buddy. Aint it a beautiful thing.”

Right so, in an utopian nation the ones doing all the work will resent the ones slacking off and buddy capitalism is introduced.

Is there historical example and proof of this?

Coz for the other half of the story, the unhappy working class would be abused and exploited by the middle and ruling class that the larger working class would eventually overthrow them and set up a communist government.

It happened in Russia, happened in Cuba, happened in China, happened in Vietnam.

Russia abolished communism because of its financial incapability in the Cold War was not efficient of keeping up with the Arms and Space Race.

China had reforms in the 70s because of Deng and his moderates.

Do i need to say Cuba and Vietnam? Cuba is a beautiful and happy communist country where the people has excellent health care, the gov provides them with homes to live in, food to eat etc

Vietnam? US screwed them over in the 60s but they are getting there.

As far as i concern, zoso you sure speak a lot of crap, but you never have any historical sources, statistics to back them up. I doubt you ever even taken history, economics or politics classes.

Originally Quoted by Pepsi78

“What will you acomplish with hate?
If you hate some one dont expect him to talk to you, guess thats how people end up in the corner ignored by every one.
How can you hate a country or some one that lives his life and has nothing to do with you, a regular citisen that you dont even know that just go's
about his life and never done anithing to you and your family.
This is how fanatics are boren, i may not agree with the policy of the us administration but that does not mean that we have to go and start hate americans or america , what hate them for what, for living their life? hate them cause they are not like you? or cause they dont act like you want them to?”

Talk? Are the Americans ever capable of that?

Look at my earlier posts on the Soviet summit meetings in the peaceful co existence era, and the breakdown of the Paris summit.

The whole world tried to "talk" to the US about reducing pollution and sign the Kyoto Agreement, sure the Americans talked: "No."

No i don't hate the normal average joes in US. They make great rock music, they write good novels, they make good video games. Not to mention i lived in Chicago for a while and still have lots of friends there.

What i hate is the Amerian government, and the Americans with an arrogant nose stuck up in the air thinking their nation is all righteous and just and fair and the greatest in the world, and the entire planet owes their debt to them.

The truth is? We dont.


[edit on 14-12-2005 by EarthUnificationFrontier]

Dude america is not about that it's about the people that make america
not about george bush and his administration.

Dont acuse a hole country , you can stick a finger on some one but not on them all, all this post will do will create more and more hate and thats how people get to be enemies by this kind of actions and missunderstanding.

Do you think the white house is america? or why dont you understand that people from there are allso revolted or why do you think people from there
join this forum and to also say this forum may be if not for sure american.

If you look at the members from us you will notice that they have difrent points of view and it's called democracy ,most of them are sick and tierd too of scams and cover ups.

But to hate some one for shareing a point of view than i must say your abstucting freedom and it leads to comunism and fanatical nationalism.

i don't hate zoso28, i think he is ignorant and foolish for making bold claims without any evidence or understanding of the past and the truth.

Unfortunately that's the way it is. The actions by the government often represents the entire nation's population. And may i ask, who elected Bush two terms for presidency in the first place?

Do i need to stresss again that im not an American hater, but anti-America, her government and her policies. Know the difference.

Yes but you can use words that other people might think developes hate.
Try not using the word usa when acusing like saing usa did that and did this, try using the word"the bush administration"and not the word usa.
You can say that administration is bad and i agree with you the rest are just people with fealings, morals, and every day problems just like you.

When Hitler invaded Poland in WWII, many people still refer it as "Germany" invaded Poland, or simply the "Germans" invaded Poland.

Or, when the Germans in WWII is mentioned, people automatically assume them to be Nazis. The fact is there were a lot of Jews sympathiers and anti-Nazis Germans, but these were often overlooked and people still make those assumptions.

As i said, the actions of the government represent the entire nation's population, and people will continue to make assumptions according to that.

Well for starters The Japaness population would be a bit bigger.

Hitlers wouldn't have got all that Steel for his tanks and planes in WW2

The world wouldn't not be under constant threat of nuclear war.

Isreal would be on par with Palestine

The Taliban would still be in power 'Controlling there own country'
Instead of the USA doing it for a 'pipe line'

and you WOULD STILL HAVE THE TWIN TOWERS ..........

Pearl Harbour would have been a bed time story.

But all said and done i'm GLAD the USA is here because atleast it isn't me and my country bending over and taking one up the ar*e !!!
However i feel we may be next !!!!

Ahh, but without the U.S., they wouldn't exist. Actually, there would just be a big portion of the world missing. Only Canada would be floating about.

I dont think the goverment reflects a image of the people and it never will.

Do you think stalin represented the image of the people?
Do you think sadam represented the will of the people?
And finaly do you think in north corea the goverment represents the will of the people?

You can never finger a country for it's govermental actions you can finger that goverment but never the people.
In fact it is the dumbest thing and it is hapening and it's just rong.
To acuse milions of people for some actions of an idiot that thinks he can rule the world and who is obsest with power.

United States means for me culture, rock and roll , the grand canion, new york,wood stock, people of difrent nations that gatherd there long ago
to live together and many other things.
United states does not represent for me M16 military power and george bush.

If you take only one view from the side you will see the guns sticking out
but if you look at it from the front you will see that it's not about that.

And to add about the topic where the world would be with out usa
i would say not mutch diffrent usa is just a nation just like other nations
every one has culture and history but i sustain that there are problems that
have to do with freedom.


And now for zoso
To answer you zoso it hapend before people just kidnaped for no reason and tortured , take a look at the patriot act if you even invoke the constitution you can be prosecuted.

Wach the news lately a german citisen was captured by the cia and tortured later it was found that he had no connections links of what so ever to what they belived he did so he just got tortured and than a big sorry we scrued up.

How about guantanomo bay people being held there with out charges
no charges no nothing they just colected them off the street and no cahrges have been broth to them but they are locked up there.

How about the us goverment dening access to the un's human rights groop
to some of the some prisoners?do you call that freedom huh

I'll tell you why "IT'S TORTURE"

I like things balanced and where there is reasoning i can admit and i can understand but ignorance is a blessing when you dont know the facts.

[edit on 14-12-2005 by pepsi78]

[edit on 14-12-2005 by pepsi78]

Thats because none of those dictators were elected by the people for presidency, therefore not accounting into their views.

George Bush was, Eisenhower was, Truman was, Johnson was.

And despite what you think, Hitler was also elected by the Germans.

EarthUnificationFrontier dude they faked the eletions every one knows
and know more and more people are protesting it even those who voted for them cant you see there is a hole forum about this , your just rong
not every one is the same.