Where would the world be without the US?

zoso:

The US is responsible for keeping the free world free. The US is nearly the sole protectors of freedom and democracy as we know it today. The US is the most charitable nation the world has ever known.

If anything you said was true, then I would bother to argue. It's actually more of an embarassing display of American ignorance and arrogance.

All the free democratic nations that exist today do so because of the blanket of security the US provides.

Totally divorced from reality. What about Brazil? Columbia? Do you provide them a "blanket of security"? Haha.

So I say your welcome to Canada, Germany, France, etc.(insert the rest of the free nations here). who like to second guess and pretend they are against US policies. We will continue to provide you security while you bash the US, so enjoy your freedom.

Yeah, cool, you can pay the billions of dollars for security, and cower in fear everytime there is a "security threat", and we Canadians will just continue to turn your ignorance and pigheadedness into pure comedic gold. I feel 100% secure as a Canadian. Anywhere in the world.

There is an endless supply of young men and women in the US who will continue to volunteer to defend freedom. Sleep well knowing you are protected. For all those of you who respond to this, please state your affiliation. Thank you and God bless

I'm Canadian, eh?

I didn't know your troops were fighting and dying for me. Please tell them it doesn't affect me at all (in fact I don't even really care), and they should probably stop.

I don't need anybody defending my freedom. My country of 26 million people does it just fine, but thanks for the altered reality view on things!



jako



[edit on 9-12-2005 by Jakomo]

Originally posted by Jakomo
zoso:

The US is responsible for keeping the free world free. The US is nearly the sole protectors of freedom and democracy as we know it today. The US is the most charitable nation the world has ever known.

If anything you said was true, then I would bother to argue. It's actually more of an embarassing display of American ignorance and arrogance.

All the free democratic nations that exist today do so because of the blanket of security the US provides.

Totally divorced from reality. What about Brazil? Columbia? Do you provide them a "blanket of security"? Haha.

So I say your welcome to Canada, Germany, France, etc.(insert the rest of the free nations here). who like to second guess and pretend they are against US policies. We will continue to provide you security while you bash the US, so enjoy your freedom.

Yeah, cool, you can pay the billions of dollars for security, and cower in fear everytime there is a "security threat", and we Canadians will just continue to turn your ignorance and pigheadedness into pure comedic gold. I feel 100% secure as a Canadian. Anywhere in the world.

There is an endless supply of young men and women in the US who will continue to volunteer to defend freedom. Sleep well knowing you are protected. For all those of you who respond to this, please state your affiliation. Thank you and God bless

I'm Canadian, eh?

I didn't know your troops were fighting and dying for me. Please tell them it doesn't affect me at all (in fact I don't even really care), and they should probably stop.

I don't need anybody defending my freedom. My country of 26 million people does it just fine, but thanks for the altered reality view on things!



jako



[edit on 9-12-2005 by Jakomo]

Didn't we buy Canada? You can have all the ones who think the election was rigged. They wanted to comethere but found out it isn't all that, so they stayed here in the "bad lands".

Let's see what Canada has contributed to the world...........................
I'm sorry I lost my train of thought thinking but getting no answer to the previous question. I'd guess about as much as Australia and New Zealand would be about right.

As for needing to defend any other country that the US, well, I'd really rather not but I did and it wasn't about you and your's, it was about me and mine. If we don't stop the bad guys you keep letting in, we wouldn't need to go anywhere. So maybe if your ramblings about not needing us met reality, you'd realize that the proper way to say thank you is..........wait for it..............thank you America for defending my right to surf porn and post my narrow world view of historical fact on a site dedicated to point its finger at the one thing that made it all possible..........wait for it again..........taxpayer dollars and the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT and its military members/civies/contractors (DARPA)


TAAAAAADAAAAAAA!!!! The crowd goes wild, the yankee have won the pennant, the yankee have won the pennant!!!! Sorry I digress.

And you can thank Aruba for being able to defeat Japan and help defeat Germany in WWII. A huge part of the fuel for the allied aircraft was refined a mile away from where I live.

posted by OneGodJesus
Some of my bretheren do not do so, mostly because they are young and when they get to go to a country where women can be purchased and drinking is a non-issue they get a little wild. When you come from a culture that says women are equal (read have more rights that the average WASP) and drinking is looked on like some kind of right of passage at age 21, you will have some who do not control themselves

Hey? So only the US has equal rights? What Europe did you travel too? Did you slip through some space-time rupture and land in 1400's France or something? As for the drinking at 21, just proves we are more free than than the US to do what we want.

In fact, the only thing I can think of that you guys can do that we cannot is own a gun (even that depends on where you go in the EU). As for the rest of it, we have freedom to do plenty of things you guys across the pnd would spend 20 years in jail for.

posted by OneGodJesus
While I agree that we americans are the greatest nation to grace the planet (what other country can do what we have in so short a time period without the grace of God blessing us?

Yeah, whatever. I could name a dozen civilisations that have contributed more than the USA.

Starting with the Sumerians, working our way through to the Chinese, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, the Indians all the way through to the Greatest Empire the world has ever seen, the British Empire. 1/3 of the world , the Industrial Revolution, countless scientific advances that helped haul humanity out of the middle ages, a global language and Rugby.

I hate these bloody chest beating threads. Why can't you guys understand a few simple facts:

1. We're not jealous of you
   
2. We're not jealous of your percieved "freedoms"...we have more.
   
3. We don't hate you, we just dislike your Government. You should too. They're gits.
   
4. You might have the most powerful Military on the face of the planet, but that does not automatically make you the greatest nation ever. An Army does not make a nation.
   
5. We not that insecure that we need to start threads on how great we are. We acknowledge all peoples, rather than beat our chests like primates in heat telling everyone just how wonderful we are and how crap everyone else is
   

Let's see what Canada has contributed to the world...........................

I'm sorry I lost my train of thought thinking but getting no answer to the previous question. I'd guess about as much as Australia and New Zealand would be about right.

1: have you even reasearched about what AUSTRALIA and NEW ZEALAND have actually contributed to the world

2: if you hav'nt how dare you even say that if you hav'nt even reasearched or even remotly glimppsed at what we have done? huh?

3: one of the various reasons why the world dislikes is that some americans don't even bother to look at the rest of the world and what they contribute

I think the subject is going off topic and i can realy see people showing off pride here.
Why try to deviate things when we can stay on the subject"CONSPYRACY THEORY"
I am a europian but i do agree that United States is a greate nation
too bad people who is runing it is ruining it.
Bad or intentional policy have taken this country to the edge of democracy
where democracy ends and imperialism begins.
I simply cant say anymore united states is a republic and i can say it is a imperium more related to imperialst dogma where the power of the congress and senate is shifted to the ruler and he can do what ever he pleases and wishes to do with that country.
It's not the 60's 70's 80's any more it's the new milenium of torture, tirany
no more flower power and hippy stuff it's the era of slavery and imperialism
, united states is heading in that direction and if it's inhabited population does not lift a finger to do something you can see a new world coming in to view has george bush senior said once.

[edit on 11-12-2005 by pepsi78]

I think this hostility between Europeans and Americans is a matter of perception. When you get down to knowing people on a personal level your perceptions change quite a bit. I work and am friends with a Frenchman, Englishman, and Indian fellow. I like them on the personal level theres no animosity at all, and there never was. I think these are petty differences that have no bearing on anything but our personal perceptions. Its from these we form sterotypes which are usually wrong in the first place. I am American, and if you asked me if I was proud I would tell you yes, just as if I asked what nationality you were and asked if you were proud I would expect you to say the same. National pride is healthy when not taken too far, just dont let it turn to any extreme form of Nationalism. I am also proud to be allies with countries such as Austrailia, the UK and New Zealand as they have been good enough to dedicate themselves beyond moral support and into troop support. I personally think the whole beef between Americans and Europeans is childish.

Originally posted by Manincloak
The only thing USA has done is make the world a less safer place. All the major wars since ww2 were started by the US, and even today it continues to invade country after country after country, with countless hundreds of thousnads dieing for the wrong cause.

What a completely false and misleading statement. I suggest you actually read a little about the wars of the last 60 years. Nothing wrong with educating yourself, so you don't post blatant BS again

Many things have been invented in the USA in the last 100 years, but also great many things have been invented in other countries as well. The radar, for example, has been discovered by the Brits. Peniciline was discovered by the French. The Web was invented in CERN. There are millions of inventions used in our everyday lifes...some of them coming from USA, some of them not.

As for political issues, there were lots of countries that contributed in defeating the Axis in WWII: Russia played a every important role, for example; remember back then, they were called 'the allies' for a reason. USA has fought freedom wars but also illegal wars. USA has supported or created dictators.

But when we say 'USA' we don't mean all the people of USA, but some specific goverment agencies with certain people with certain agentas. You can't blame 280 million Americans for everything bad in this world.

So it is not everything 'black' and 'white', 'good' or 'bad'. The world is analog, not digital. Please think about it...

Originally posted by zoso28
The bottom line is we made the world what it is today.

Historically speaking that's incorrect.

The Far East, Europe (mainly Rome), Parts of the Africa's made the world what it is today.

Although some time in about 10,000 BC, a group of people made the difficult journey across the ice from Siberia to Alaska. They discovered a land which was just as good as Siberia but without any people. Gradually more people followed. Over the years, they advanced down the west coast of the Americas, and spread out eastwards, eventually occupying the whole of North and South America. These people changed over time, becoming the Native Americans. In some places, mainly in the tropical regions, they developed sophisticated civilisations, such as the Maya, Nazca and Inca.

But America as you know it, is incredibly young by comparison.

You should really give credit tor Amerigo Vespucci, Christopher Columbus, Leif Eiríksson, Eirík the Red, St Brendan the Navigator, The Carthaginians, Giovanni Caboto / John Cabot or even the Chinese - depending on which story you believe about who discovered America.

America was shaped by the world, but I won't deny America shapes the world today...

good job mastter p.
Some just see it has a competition and fail to understand things.
Patriotism is suporting your country all the time and suporting your goverment only WHEN IT DESERVES IT.
Usual common us citisens are not to blame but they do have 1 blame that they are too confortable and not doing anything to make it better speak for them selfs and get involved with the comunity more and stand up and say we dont want this we want that, i prefer to think that new york is defrent from the rest of usa, people are more agitated there more like live and aware new yorkers walk on the streets more that is a fact.
f you live in fear of one to another and fail to be more open to one to another how are you going to make things better where the gov is seling you this crap makeing you even more afraid and paranoid of one to another i see there cities they look like abandond places with not a sole on the street, if i walk on the street there and ask some one what time is it
i could get a paranoid reaction he can pull a gun on me or he can act all freaked out and run like i'm going to do something.
It's every one for him self there and people got to change things if they want things to get better.
I hope next time you people go vote more, like hell we dont care , okay if you dont care about a dream just wait until you wake up in total freedom loss and rights violation.

Without the U.S. this thread would in German. Or Russian.

Without the U.S. it would eventually be in Arabic.

And the global economy would be lower.

Originally posted by zoso28
Where would we all be without the US.

Quite possibly in a much, much better place.

--Kit.

Originally posted by dave_54
Without the U.S. this thread would in German. Or Russian.

Without the U.S. it would eventually be in Arabic.

And the global economy would be lower.

Whithout the US this thread would not exist in any language. And there would be no global economy.

Originally posted by Kitsunegari

Originally posted by zoso28
Where would we all be without the US.

Quite possibly in a much, much better place.

--Kit.

So give us more than that. Why would it be a better place? Give us some example of why you put forth this opinion

I will admit that I'm not very educated on this particular matter, but I just feel like we screwed up the middle east. I feel like we have done nothing but add to their problems, and sacrifice lives.

--Kit.

Originally posted by Kitsunegari
I will admit that I'm not very educated on this particular matter, but I just feel like we screwed up the middle east. I feel like we have done nothing but add to their problems, and sacrifice lives.

--Kit.

The middle easteners screwed up the middle east. If they had not attacked the US then they would have been left alone. You would have been better off not responding, since you obviously have nothing. Please try to have more to back up your replies in the future.

Who's to say no-one else would've risen to the occassion and invented things, had the US not been around?

Originally posted by zoso28
The middle easteners screwed up the middle east.

Quite right.

al qaida is really just a resurrection of the old hashashim sect that has an ultimate agenda of a global islamic theocracy and supports violence to achieve and preserve it. Under their twisted interpretation of the q'uran it is perfectly acceptable, even holy, to kill any infidel just because he is an infidel. While the U.N. (and most of Europe) was content to cower and appease the terrorists the U.S. and the U.K. stood up to them. Once again the U.S. and Britain are shedding blood to protect the rest of a cowardly and thankless world.

An appeaser is someone who will feed his friends to a crocodile in the hope he is eaten last.

Before you were brainwashed and your judgement clouded and compromised by the American education indoctrination and propaganda, maybe you can learn something about American History.

In your first point, you mentioned about the America keeping free trade in the world. What is so good about free trade? Do you know who free trade benefits? Multinational, conglomerates and large cooperations in which their head quarters are mostly located in America itself is the answer. And with these companies earning profit maximization the US government would be paid in tax. As you can see the incentive for US for free trade is entirely for itself and itself only.

Free trade also established the foundation for labour abuse, child labour and the mass poverty in Southeast Asia and Africa. American based cooperations such as Nike pays children less than age of 10 to make shoes for them 12 hours daily with a wage of less than $1 American dollar. The free trade also means hundreds upon thousands of African, Southeast Asian farmers would be incompetitible with their price of their crops, they would all be out of work and unable to feed their families.

Why do you think all those South Korean people, along with those tens of thousand of people are doing gathering in Hong Kong demonstrating against the WTO meeting that is about to begin tomorrow? And now tell me, what is so good about free trade to the African people and the Asian people, which together represent more than 50% of the world population, other than the benefits to the American conglomerates and the American government itself.

Your second point stated the US as the protector of democracy, freedom and human rights. This argument has been posted by someone before, and it is a good point. Why is democracy more superior than other systems of government? Capitalism, the econoimical system US and other forms of democratic governments are using right now, creates opportunities for the rich to exploit the poor, in other terms the rich gets richer but the poor stays poor. If you don't believe me look at the neweset poverty and homeless figure percentage in US, it is amongst one of the highest in developed countries.

Where's the just, fairness and equality of that? Yet ironically these are the words America often emphasizes on.

If you even brag about how US protects and enforce human rigts, i willl just laugh my heads off. Besides all the massive capital US made sellling weapons and supplies to UK and France which were so lacking against the Nazis in WWII, where else do you think US managed to have enough finance to fund its Truman Doctrine in 1947, as a mean of fighting the monetary policy against Soviet Union? The US simply exploited South American labour on the most fallacious level to expand its American industries. The South American labour were simply treated as slaves and they were only fed with food and water, provided with inadequate shelter as their "wage".

Most of these heart-coldening facts weere however, as you may have expected, were censored in American soil and in rest of the Europe and other "free" nations which are under the US sphere of influence. Yet, America still plays the role of this pure, clean and all just goddesss critisizing on China's or North Korean's inhumane acts or policies when she is contaminated with guilt and dark history within.

America might be credited for Operation Overlord in which it established a firm foundation on the counter attack on Hitler and won the ultimate victory. But the dark side of this honored history is that America ultimately did it for itself. You thought America would be willing to waste its own lives just to save Frenchies and Tommies? Think again. USA would not have cared less if Germany took over Europe if not for Hitler's radical economic ideas that were against free trade.

USA started booming in the 1900s (although it suffered the infamous Wall Street Crash in 1929) all thanks to the free trade policy. And economical isolation in the Europe becaue of the Nazis domination would cause the US market to shrink massively.

USA was still hesitatant to involve itself in WWII until victory achieved solely by Churchill seemed impossible. And sure, it did not until June 6th, in which most historians and military strategists already consider it to be too late causing unecessary casualties in London becaue of the Luftwaffle bombing.

American only joined WWII to save its economy, and it took the credit afterwards displaying itself as the just, good superhero that would do anything to battle evil.

Sure, America may be charitable, but the money it donated are never enough to resurrect the hundreds of thousands of lives it killed waging war in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq (twice) plus many other proxy wars it fought during the Cold War.

The mentioning of Cold War arises another issue. Do you ever watch the news? Ever seen a bloodbath in Israel because of a Palestinian terrorists blowing himself up in a crowded market? Why do you think is the cause for that? US of A.

After WWII, the infamous contest between Capitalism and Communism arises, the cold war era. The cold war was hugely blamed for the Russians. Nonetheless, historical facts and sources proved no evidence of the so-called Soviet domination or expansion of Europe of any kind. Stalin simply wanted Poland, which the Germans used as a launchboard in both world wars to attack Russia on its western front.

Russia was so devastated by WWII that any kind of political and military expansion into neighbouring countries would seem unlikely. Yet US saw potential in the rise of this Eastern Giant and would not take any chances. US simply wanted to take Russia out before it recovers again and challenge its place as the world leading nation after WWII. US launched anti-communism policies, and they became the catylists and motivatists that caused Russia to stand strong as defense and started the Cold War.

The Cold War continued to intensify as means of the arms race and the space race. The world was in fear of a nuclear armagedan if both superpowers decied to nuke eachother. All this could have stopped, however, as after the death of Stalin and Krushchev took over, the Peaceful Co-Existence policy was introduced in Russia. The Reds were willing to end the Cold War and exist in the world side by side with the American capitalists in peace (There is a deeper story behind the policy, but this will go into another long history issue). But the US simply rejected the offer of peace.

I will just shorten this section of history, but most of you already know the Cold War soon created Wars of Proxy, which caused the Korean War, Vietnam War and Middle East conflicts between Israel (the creation of Israel was another matter created by US. After WWII America rejected all Jewish refugees) and the Arabian nations.

If only US accepted the Peaceful Co Existence by the Russians, the future of another Cold War soon breaking out was uncertain, but it was clear all the people would not have died in Korea and Vietnam, and the conflicts between Israel and Palestine would not have occured and its influnence still affecting what you and I watch in the news to this age.

Enviornmentally, you may need to be reminded that USA is the only nation amongst many developed and developing countries that have not yet already signed the Kyoto Agreement to reduce speeding of the warmhouse effect. USA is currently contributing 40% of the entire world's annual pollution output, and the US government still isn't doing anything about that despite world wide demonstrations. Why? Once again, the answer is about conserving the current American economic superiority even if it means in 50 years' time the rest of the planet will be breathing in smog.

And lastly as a conclusion to answer your question, what would the world be today without US? It would be a world without African, Southeast Asian poverty, it would be a world without the forgotten deaths in Vietnam, Korea, and all the war of proxy US fought with USSR. It would be a world without the current Middle East problems. It would be a world with 40% less pollution. It would be a world where human equality and fairness may actually have a chance to be established in reliaty.

A world without USA may still not be a heaven, but it is certain we would not be living in a place that resembled so much to hell as we are today.

[edit on 12-12-2005 by EarthUnificationFrontier]