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Originally posted by robertfenix
Humster is called "disable in place" most of those Abrahms that were destroyed were done so by our own equipment, usually after a road side bomb blows apart the carriage assembly. Some rather large roadside bombs are capable of destroying an Abrahms though most of the damage came from our forces destroying the equipment so that they could be of no use to enemy forces. Sabot holes are from other abrahms destroying the downed tank.
Spacedoubtm, it’s called democracy, freedom of speech, etc. Exactly what we are trying to “share” with Iraqis.
Definition of victory -“The successful transfer of security operations to Iraqi troops and the switching of coalition forces to an inferior roll.”
Wrong, that’s just another phase of civil war, or armed conflict between various indigenous factions, and it’s exactly what is happening in Iraq.
Stop making me laugh. The Killing of Kurds was done with the very WMD that WE have sold him, for use on Iran. Kurds were gassed because WE sponsored and trained them against Saddam. When he found out, we as usually cut our losses and RAN, while Saddam retaliated against innocent people. Currently WE are the ones using WMD on civilians.
Jesus man, open up a history book. The amount of our taxes spent on assassinations, covert operations, regime over throws, drug running, etc, pale in comparison
We are right NOW, torturing people around the world against ALL laws, conventions, treaties, and trying to LEGALIZE it, so quit trying to be holier then thou.
All the quotes you got there are the FALSE intelligence PLANTED by the interested parties, and it’s under INVESTIGATION right now. At least turn on C-SPAN or something, man.
I’m wasting my time with this anyway, because it simply doesn’t matter what anybody says to you, you’ll be this thick to the end of your days, but if you try to boldly venture out into the field of economical factoids again, just an advice, don’t, ‘cause I’ll be here for that one.
I think it corroborates FlyersFan statement more than your own.
Originally posted by killirl
Unlike Saddam's situation these are not civilians we are dealing with; they are terrorists. Saddam raped, killed, gassed, removed limbs, and committed various other atrocities to civilian women and children.
American soldiers putting panties on someone’s head hardly qualifies as torture.
Originally posted by xmotex
First of all it's a promo to a History Channel documentary, not exactly a very informative source.
Second and most importantly, the question is not whether the Werwolves existed, they clearly did. But did they continue an insurgency after the surrender, in any way comparable to the insurgency that exists in Iraq today, years after the end of the war's combat phase? The answer appears to be that they didn't. All their major actions occured while the war was still going on. I can't find any evidence that they did anything after VE day.
Just trying to get the factual information down
Hitler's SS "Werewolves" continued to kill American occupation soldiers and those who cooperated with them for three years after the end of the war.
long after May 1945 the sabotage methods promoted by the Werewolves were still being used against the occupying powers."
"Although the Werewolves originally limited themselves to guerrilla warfare with the invading armies, they soon began to undertake scorched-earth measures and vigilante actions against German `collaborators' or `defeatists'. They damaged Germany's economic infrastructure, already battered by Allied bombing and ground fighting, and tried to prevent anything of value from falling into enemy hands."
Originally posted by Harlequin
BTW - stop calling the insurgents *terrorists* - they are fighting the us army the way they know -
Please feel free to correct the factual information..
Yes, I already wrote that they killed the mayor of Aachen; prior to the May 7, 1945 surrender - in fact he was ordered murdered by Himmler. But that's not a post-occupation killing, there was a war still on - he was killed on March 25, 1945.
And to be frank, the official US military history of the period states what I have already said ( SEE The U.S. Army in the Occupation of Germany 1944-1946) - that for the most part, occupied Germany was a rather docile place. And it states that the death of the mayor of Aachen was the major achievement of the "werewolves." No if their major achievement comes in March of 1945, what can you say of the rest of the movement?
Your own Secretary Rumsfeld on the ABC news morning program stated that the level of deaths of US soldiers in Iraq far exceeds the number killed up to this point at the same period in occupied Germany.
The so-called "werewolves" were often made up of no more than teenage boys; the bunkers that they hid in when discovered tend to have less than two weeks worth of rations, and generally speaking when discovered they had very low esprit and put up very little resistance.
"SS officers - called 'werewolves' - engaged in sabotage and attacked both coalition forces and those locals cooperating with them, much like today's Baathist and Fedayeen remnants," national security adviser Condoleezza Rice said in a speech Monday.
But historians and military analysts take issue with that comparison.
"The werewolves existed more in the idea or the fantasy stage than ever as a real phenomenon," said Lt. Col. Kevin Farrell, a historian at the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth, Kan.
The werewolves were founded in September 1944 by SS chief Heinrich Himmler, who saw them as a special force that would work behind U.S. lines to sabotage equipment and kill U.S. troops. About 5,000 SS officers were trained as werewolves.
But according to Perry Biddiscombe, a historian of postwar Germany who wrote a 1998 book on the werewolves, the force was designed only to assist the German army in winning the war. It was not created to be an underground movement after a German defeat.
As a result, Biddiscombe said, Rice is correct that the SS's werewolves did attack U.S. troops - but the only documented attacks took place before the Nazis capitulated on May 7, 1945.
Originally posted by killirl
Originally posted by Kasra
You've already destroyed the country yourself. I don't recall dozens of suicide bombings killing countless civillians every day.
[edit on 7-12-2005 by Kasra]
I recall Saddam killing thousands of Kurds (men, women, and children) a day with weapons of mass destruction.
I also remember Saddam's payment of 25,000 dollars to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers.
Not to mention the thousands of men women and children being tortured in his jails.
The moral argument for the war is one the liberals cannot win.
you are so sadly ignorant of the realy facts that you believe such rubbish yourself.
Civlians ARE being tortured , raped , killed and multiple other atrocities , not only in Iraq but in quantanomo bay as well
Its a sad day for the world that the usa has fallen so far.
So , just because the usa hasn`t signed up to teh treaties over the use of WP makes using it ok?
by that *wonderful* ethos , Iraq did nothing wrong when it used the gas sold to them by the usa to kill the kurds.
Clarification on CIA Prisons
(New York, December 9, 2005)—An article today in the Polish newspaper Gazeta Wyborcza quotes a Human Rights Watch researcher concerning alleged CIA interrogations in Poland and Romania. Human Rights Watch has not reached final conclusions about CIA operations in eastern Europe. Human Rights Watch has collected information that CIA airplanes traveling from Afghanistan in 2003 and 2004 made direct flights to remote airfields in Poland and Romania. We are continuing to investigate the issue and are cooperating with ongoing Council of Europe investigations. We urge all governments and agencies to do the same.
There is a difference between killing your own people in peace time and killing the enemy in wartime. You cannot say the USA targeted civilians; they were given amble time to evacuate. Saddam purposely targeted civilians and ended up killing 75% women and children.
Regardless, you are admitting that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction which means that the war was justified and your only argument is that America is somehow the greater evil.