Invading Israel

Originally posted by Bripe Klmun

The right to defend one's self is a fundamental right that is hardly just Syria's, Lebanon's, or Iran's alone to enjoy. Israel also enjoys this right. Unfortunately, it seems that when there are suicide bomb attacks, Israel is not allowed to respond without appearing as the victimizers in most of the world's media. Yes, they have nukes. And when was the last time they used them? Ohhhhhhhh, yeah. They haven't. Other countries use WMDs on their own people...

Yes, Israel is a competitor in the world. They spy on us, steal secrets, operate in often blatant violation of our wishes. And I defy anyone to find another nation that doesn't do so...including the US. But after all is said and done, they are the last bastion of true democracy in the Middle East, and as the saying goes...better the foe you know...

Invading Israel is not even an option, and comparing their security fence to the Berlin Wall is an outrageous stretch. I'm not the biggest supporter of their policies, but I find that there are few nations that I do fully support.

I was gonna respond, but this was so well said...theres no need to repeat it.

Maximu§

Originally posted by gimmefootball400
I do think that it would be very hard if not difficult to talk through to a brick wall. One of these days, Iran is going to nuke Israel. With all this political bickering and fussing, we are going to stop this how?

i think this is getting off topic... i started this thread, my first by the way . to gauge reactions. If its okay for Israel to obtain nukes to protect there sovreignty then why cant iran if they feel their borders are being threatened by the US presence in Iraq.

If its ok for Israel to ignore UN Resolutions without fear of being invaded then why cant every other country in the world get away with it.

Originally posted by Riwka
There is a strong relationship between U.S. and Israel.
For what reason should the U.S. invade Israel?

The reasons are as stated in my original post.

Are u saying that as long as a country has 'friendly' relations (which in the case of israel is barely true) with the united states they are free to act againts the wishes of the rest of the civilised world

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist

i think this is getting off topic... i started this thread, my first by the way

. to gauge reactions. If its okay for Israel to obtain nukes to protect there sovreignty then why cant iran if they feel their borders are being threatened by the US presence in Iraq.

The obvious answer is that Iran is not suddenly in the market for nuclear weapons due to the Iraq War. Iran has been playing the nuclear game for 20 years at least...long before we came knocking on their neighbor's door.

Comparing a fanatical Islamic regime who has and does sponsor terrorist groups to a country that has been continually harassed since it's inception is a dangerous mistake.

The United States doesn't invade France and they have WMDs as well. Also there are many countries that have defied UN resolutions, Cyprus, Syria, N. Korea. The reason Iraq was invaded (finally) was that they were so "In your face" with their defiance. UN resolutions are really toothless recommendations unless someone is willing to put some teeth into it. The UN is in reality a toothless bureaucratic wonder. It really doesn't matter how many resolutions the UN has passed against Israel. NATO on the other hand has some real teeth. Just look at the countries behind events like Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan.

The obvious answer is that Iran is not suddenly in the market for nuclear weapons due to the Iraq War. Iran has been playing the nuclear game for 20 years at least...long before we came knocking on their neighbor's door.

Ok let me simplify my question for you.

How do u decide which countries can have WMDs and which ones cant? Is it any country who opposes the American goverment policies. I would call that mentality a threat to International Security.

Why is America the deciding country when this is the only country to have used nuclear weapons. Dont u think the world would be a much safer place if noone had nukes....

Instead of a world where Americas allies can do what they want, obtain any weapons they want and scream National Security if anyone has the gall to question them.

Originally posted by Bripe Klmun

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist

i think this is getting off topic... i started this thread, my first by the way

. to gauge reactions. If its okay for Israel to obtain nukes to protect there sovreignty then why cant iran if they feel their borders are being threatened by the US presence in Iraq.

The obvious answer is that Iran is not suddenly in the market for nuclear weapons due to the Iraq War. Iran has been playing the nuclear game for 20 years at least...long before we came knocking on their neighbor's door.

Comparing a fanatical Islamic regime who has and does sponsor terrorist groups to a country that has been continually harassed since it's inception is a dangerous mistake.

Funny that, a lot of people think its the zionist jews and Israel that are fanatical, it is the israelis who use helicopters against kids with stones and sticks, who flatten houses full of innocent people... Israel has not been continually harassed, it has started the conflicts and then lied to gain world support, just like they did during/after ww2.

The wall is illegal even by the UN, yet they refuse to tear it down, they refuse to allow Palestinians to travel thru it for work or any other reasons, they take thousands of acres of land each year off farmers for new settlements and walls. Israel is the cause of the problems in the middle east today, so i see why some countries there would be happier with them going back to where thye came from.

Originally posted by HiddenReality
Israel is the cause of the problems in the middle east today, so i see why some countries there would be happier with them going back to where thye came from.

Where they came from? And where should they go back to? Germany?

Originally posted by dbates
The reason Iraq was invaded (finally) was that they were so "In your face" with their defiance. UN resolutions are really toothless recommendations unless someone is willing to put some teeth into it. The UN is in reality a toothless bureaucratic wonder. It really doesn't matter how many resolutions the UN has passed against Israel.

Im sorry.... but i never heard that reason stated by any US Government official.

If UN Resolutions are so toothless, why were they a stated reason for invasion? along with the seach for the magic dissappearing WMDs and some fairytale of a link to Al-Qaeda?

Simple, CS, we decide because we have done more to keep the peace. We decide by looking at who is going tonuke the crap outta someone else because they simply don't like them.

see, Take Israel as an example. She always extends the olive branch, only to have it shoved back in her face by those who demand that her children learn to swim, yet she doesn't use the weapons in an offensive manner, and has never made any of her enemies learn to swim or die.

Why is it that the obvious must be spelled out, as if it is some huge secret? Or, am I so sleepy I am missing an important point?

[edit on 6-12-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

Originally posted by HiddenReality
Funny that, a lot of people think its the zionist jews and Israel that are fanatical, it is the israelis who use helicopters against kids with stones and sticks, who flatten houses full of innocent people...

That's right...

"We need to flatten this building. Please cram as many people as you can into it." "But sir there are over 150 in there now." "Roger that, squeeze in 50 more and we'll blow this building.

"Kids are throwing stones at tanks. We need help...over".
"Roger that, we'll send in the attack helicopters now. All airborne units focus your firepower on any kid you see in the street."

How asinine are those situations you described? Please think before making obviously biased inaccurate comments with no proof to back them up.

Simple, CS, we decide because we have done more to keep the peace. We decide by looking at who is going tonuke the crap outta someone else because they simply don't like them.

Some people would argue that your presence (note: i say your presence because you seem to consider yourself part of the team) in the middle east is a great source of tension for the people who live there.

You invade a country, claiming to be bringing peace and democracy, and what do the people end up with. A situation that is worse than it began.

see, Take Israel as an example. She always extends the olive branch, only to have it shoved back in her face by those who demand that her children learn to swim, yet she doesn't use the weapons in an offensive manner, and has never made any of her enemies learn to swim or die.

Can u clarify your metaphor.... it doesnt make sense to me.

Isnt the fact that Israel has these weapons offensive enough? it is to me. especially when there is such an uproar about iran having them. in my opinion, whats good for the goose has to be good for the gander.

Why is it that the obvious must be spelled out, as if it is some huge secret?

What makes ur argument so obvious....

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist

Isnt the fact that Israel has these weapons offensive enough? it is to me.
especially when there is such an uproar about iran having them.

It was Irans President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s whoi said Israel should be “wiped off the map” - and not the other way.

Such rhetoric has been commonplace since the 1979 Islamic revolution. Anti-Israeli diatribes are painted as murals along most highways and are heard regularly at Friday prayers.

Not to mention, Israel never said anything about wiping out the other Islamic nations. Its the opposite side where the Muslims vow to put the Jews out to the sea.

It was Irans President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s whoi said Israel should be “wiped off the map” - and not the other way.

Do u ever stop to think about why the arab 'fanatics' as they are commonly called, keep calling for israels distruction??? I think u have to look at the israeli treatment of the palestinians. the muslims brothers and sisters of all the all the other islamic countries in the middle east. I think the arab nations feel compelled to act when people are forced off their land into what amounts to ghettos.

do u condone israels treatment of the palestinian people... and dont tell me u think they are all terrorist. i fail to see how some children throwing rocks at an israeli tank is a real threat to israels national security.

Not to mention, Israel never said anything about wiping out the other Islamic nations. Its the opposite side where the Muslims vow to put the Jews out to the sea.

What do u call it when the retaliation for one mans terrorist act is to fire hellfire missiles into an entire apartment building... with no care for who is inside, guilty or innocent

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist
What do u call it when the retaliation for one mans terrorist act is to fire hellfire missiles into an entire apartment building... with no care for who is inside, guilty or innocent

Im not certain if that is a very good response to my post. Theres a difference between retaliation and someone who justs wants to wipe you out. Different big time.

my intent was to show that there is a difference between 'vowing' something. and just acting without a stated reason

Based on the last two posts (deltaboy and riwka - which I agree with), my conspiracy theory about this thread is that the author will now quit posting, or try to deflect the argument insome other direction. Because the last two posts have raised points that the radical arabs or muslims can't deal with or answer - that it is they that are doing all the threatening.

As for Israel's (can't confirm or deny) nukes, they still sit in their storage sites - where they've always been - quietly serving the purpose for which they were built - which is serving as a deterrent to all those countries that surround Israel. You know, the muslim countries that have been making all the threats over the years.

It's sooooo obvious why the issue of Israeli nukes drives the surrounding muslims insane. It's the only thing keeping them from accomplishing their often stated goal of wiping Israel off the map.

[edit on 12/6/2005 by centurion1211]

my conspiracy theory about this thread is that the author will now quit posting, or try to deflect the argument insome other direction.

If u read the entire thread.... the argument has already been deflected all over the place... and it hasnt been by me... ive just been responding..

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist

my conspiracy theory about this thread is that the author will now quit posting, or try to deflect the argument insome other direction.

If u read the entire thread.... the argument has already been deflected all over the place... and it hasnt been by me... ive just been responding..

I've read every post in this thread. But you did not respond to the key issues the others and I just raised about the muslim fixation with Israel having nukes. So, I guess I was still correct about you.

[edit on 12/6/2005 by centurion1211]