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WAR: Rice Criticizes Europe Over Secret Prisons Complaints

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posted on Dec, 6 2005 @ 03:15 AM
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Originally posted by Hellmutt
At the frontpage of Danish newspapers today. Picture of Condi with an angry face and the headline is something like "Condi warns Europe!". They claim she said something along the lines of "if Europe doesn´t co-operate with The U.S., then they will be struck by terror!"

Now thats Scary indeed.
Condi is realizing the Bush's "You're either with US or you're with the TERRORISTS" saying and she has to make sure that this Promise is fullfiled. The European Nations MUST Cooporate with CIA and everything that US says, or Else... That's how MAFIA works - you MUST let su (the Mafia) protect you, because you never know which BADGUYS will come and trash your place up. And if the "Customer" said No, the Mafia then send one of their own guys to trash his place us, so that later he hired them to Protect him.

How CONVENTIENT.




posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 08:57 AM
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Seeker:

Care to back that, Jakomo?
Maybe HRW or Amnesty International has some documentation that confirms what transpires at those CIA secret prisons for runaway terrorists and foreign fighters? Could you produce such or are you simply living off of the memories of Abu Ghriab?


Um, no. I am using something known as "COMMON SENSE".

If the CIA is running secret prisons where they are holding people incommunicado for months at a time with no charges filed against them, WHY DO YOU FIGURE THAT IS?

I mean, use your head. If it was any other intelligence agency in the world, would you be so obstinate? If the KGB was running secret prisons, what would you think?

So, to answer your question: Do I have info on these secret CIA prisons to back up my statement that they are doing illegal things there?

No, I don't. Because they are secret. How do I know that they are doing illegal things there?

Because it's a secret prison run by the Central Intelligence Agency.

Got it?



jako



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 09:17 AM
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Blah blah blah. We all know the U.S. are torturing suspected terroists. It's been happening for the last couple of years with that bay in Cuba. European countries like the U.K. have been complicite in helping out the C.I.A. and their reckless ways of dealing with terroism (NI conflict). Big deal. "They" operate this way and always have. I'm surprised it's taken so long to get this out on the open.



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah

Citizen of Germany was Kidnapped when he step from his airplane in Macedonia and was taken with a CIA charter flight to some of the Secret Detention Camps



I found a very intersting article on this in the german newspaper Berliner Zeitung


Deutsche Behörden halfen CIAGerman authorities helped CIA

I used babelfish (Babelfish translation) to translate it - here are some parts:





German authorities helped CIA

German authorities helped CIA of referring to kidnapped El-Masri
came from local safety circuits/not bare confusion of names/American knew identity

German security authorities obviously carry a joint responsibility for the arrest and kidnapping of the the German-Libanese Khaled el-Masri by the American secret service CIA. [...]

""possibly we made the CIA on El-Masri attentive by information, which we exchanged with the US authorities“ [...]

The US authorities search world-wide for a presumed El-Kaida-member, that entangles into the notices from 11 September 2001 in the USA to have been is and which for same name as the German-Libanese living in new Ulm carries. [...]

This identity of names was obviously also the reason, why El-Masri was arrested on 31 December 2003 into Macedonia by there safety forces and handed over to the Americans.

These kidnapped the man to Afghanistan, where it sat up to its release at the end of of May 2004 in the prison. After El-Masris data he was not there however even asked after his alleged participation on 11 September.

Rather its US interrogators would have inquired always only details from the new Ulmer Islamic scene. So they wanted to know about, who in-collects money there whether men went out of this scene to Chechnya and which activities it gives in the new Ulmer to multi-cultural center.

The interrogators would have asked again and again also for Reda Seyam, an acquaintance of El-Masri and presumed extremist, which live in Germany and are estimated of the Americans as very dangerous.

According to opinion of the police officer this speaks for it that the US interrogators in Afghanistan knew completely exactly, which El-Masri it before itself had.




posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by Jakomo
Um, no. I am using something known as "COMMON SENSE".

No, I don't. Because they are secret.

Because it's a secret prison run by the Central Intelligence Agency.


You talk a good line, like a good liberal trooper that you are, but in all that talk of common sense and secrets, I find what you say to be quite dubious, ludicrous, and hilarious. Seems that Humans Rights Watch had no problem exposing those secret prisons run by the CIA, huh? Hmm, I wonder how and I definately wonder how accurate such assertions are, when even the European community has seemingly stopped asking questions concerning them. Contrast and compare that with what you have mentioned to me, and the line of reasoning to my questions asked of you become more amplified. Secrets and common sense must be something solely subjective in definition and usage. Common sense does to equate to common knowledge, Jakomo, as such:

Your right, I should not have asked you.
I should have used common sense.
I figured you had the answers instead of more assertions.
Apparently, I was wrong.
I should have asked Humans Rights Watch, which can somehow miraculously produce common sense-based assertions in relation to revealing those CIA secrets concerning those secret CIA prisons, all the while using common sense to reveal with sureness the secret torturing that goes on within those particularly secret CIA prisons.





How do I know that they are doing illegal things there?

Having admitted such, it certainly has not stopped you from making baseless assertions, has it not?
Hence, my initial questions to you....







seekerof

[edit on 8-12-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Dec, 9 2005 @ 03:18 PM
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Seeker:

You talk a good line, like a good liberal trooper that you are, but in all that talk of common sense and secrets, I find what you say to be quite dubious, ludicrous, and hilarious.....

Common sense does to equate to common knowledge, Jakomo, as such:

Your right, I should not have asked you.
I should have used common sense.
I figured you had the answers instead of more assertions.
Apparently, I was wrong.
I should have asked Humans Rights Watch, which can somehow miraculously produce common sense-based assertions in relation to revealing those CIA secrets concerning those secret CIA prisons, all the while using common sense to reveal with sureness the secret torturing that goes on within those particularly secret CIA prisons.


Yeah, you're totally right, Seeker. I am sure that the Central Intelligence Agency runs secret prisons in order to test out new Baskin&Robbins flavours of ice cream. They probably just keep the prisons under wraps from YOU, the American public, because you'd want to get a free guest pass because they're probably like social clubs.

I mean, it's not like there's any actual historical data that shows that the CIA has ever done anything contrary to the laws of the US, right? They don't do underhanded things like overthrow democracies, pay rebels, torture and interrogate "enemies of the state", or anything even remotely like that.

Yer funny.


AND, I absolutely love how you think the word LIBERAL is a dirty word, or somehow negative. How dare I be open-minded! How DARE I be nontraditional. How DARE I be progressive.

Tell you what, things and people who ADAPT are the happiest, most successful people.

Oh, and none of my assertions in this post are baseless. We are talking about the CIA here, not Unicef. That you trust the CIA before you trust HRW makes me chuckle. baaa


jako


www.webster.com...

Antonyms to liberal:

Near Antonyms: hard, rigid, strict; doctrinal, dogmatic; bigoted, intolerant, narrow-minded; reactionary
Antonyms: conservative, conventional, nonprogressive, old-fashioned, orthodox, traditional






[edit on 9-12-2005 by Jakomo]



posted on Dec, 10 2005 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Seekerof
How can those European nations be worried over fundamantal human rights going unchecked when they themselves are complicit in what the CIA is doing?


Can you support this statement?

I'm certain covert elements in some European nations are cooperating with these tactics. But I doubt all. And in any event, the policies of covert government agencies very often do not reflect the same ideals as the governments themselves.



Just ran across this article, SkepticOverlord:


The European Union secretly allowed the United States to use transit facilities on European soil to transport "criminals" in 2003, according to a previously unpublished document. The revelation contradicts repeated EU denials that it knew of "rendition" flights by the CIA.

The EU agreed to give America access to facilities - presumably airports - in confidential talks in Athens during which the war on terror was discussed, the original minutes show. But all references to the agreement were deleted from the record before it was published.

--------
But this section, and others referring to US policy, were deleted - as a "courtesy" to Washington, according to a spokesman for the EU Council of Ministers.

Tony Bunyan, of the Statewatch civil liberties group which obtained the original document, said: "What kind of facilities are these and how many people work there? That phrase suggests the US is being allowed to use airports in Europe to transport criminals from third countries."

EU concealed deal with US to allow 'rendition' flights





seekerof

[edit on 10-12-2005 by Seekerof]




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