WAR: Rice Criticizes Europe Over Secret Prisons Complaints, page 1

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 11:23 AM

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Just before setting off on a trip to Europe, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice released an official statement chastising Europeans for complaining about alleged CIA secret detention centers in Eastern Europe. Although she stopped short of explicitly confirming the existance of such sites, she did say that Europeans need to realize that information the U.S. learns from interrogating suspects helps "save European lives." Rice added that the U.S. is not torturing any detainees and has done nothing wrong, and said that the Europeans need to decide whether or not they wish to work with the U.S. on preventing terror attacks worldwide.

www.nytimes.com
WASHINGTON, Dec. 5 - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice chastised Europe leaders today, saying that before they complain about secret jails for terror suspects in European nations, they should realize that interrogations of these suspects have produced information that helped "save European lives."

In her remarks, the Bush Administration's official response to the reports of a network of secret detention centers, Ms. Rice repeatedly emphasized that the United States does not countenance the torture of terrorism suspects, at the hands of either American or foreign captors.

She offered her remarks to reporters early this morning, in a departure lounge at Andrews Air Force Base, just before setting off for a trip to Europe, where she was certain to be asked about the growing controversy over the secret Central Intelligence Agency prisons believed to be located in at least eight European nations. Her statement is also to serve as the basis for the government's response to an official inquiry from the European Union over the secret prisons.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

I'm not really sure why Europeans are making such a big deal out of this. Unless western countries are willling to take the necessary steps to combat terrorism and deal effectively with terrorists, we will not be able to stop this scourge from taking down our civilization.

Related News Links:
www.bloomberg.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
WAR: CIA Holds Terror Suspects in Secret Prisons

MERC

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 11:44 AM

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djohnsto77, if the U.S is not torturing these detainees, can I ask why they are bieng flown to countries where torture is permited? Why waste the time and money?

"Shova, Europe!"
"Grrrr"

Blah. Shut it, Rice.

Seekerof

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 11:46 AM

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Not sure why the European nations are making such a deal over it either.
Rice has stipulated and will stipulate that:

...she will suggest that anything the CIA does has the approval of host governments.

Rice to claim Euro backing for CIA prisons

To insinuate that these countries have no knowledge of those CIA detention facilities or CIA 'ghost' torture planes is highly dubious, if not ludicrous. Those nations are complicit in what the CIA is doing. Matter of fact, Romania seriously doubts the allegations made by HRW (Human Rights Watch), here:

Romania has asked Human Rights Watch for detailed evidence to support the campaign group's allegations that the Balkan country may have hosted secret CIA prisons, Foreign Minister Razvan Ungureanu said on Sunday.

Romania demands proof of CIA prisons allegations

She [Dr. Rice] also reiterated that:

"The United States will use every lawful weapon to defeat these terrorists"...

Rice admits CIA transfers but denies torture

Furthermore, terrorists and foreign fighters have no official standing under international law. There may be handling and moving of terrorists and foreign fighters, but they are not being moved for the sole and express purpose of being tortured. Thank the liberal left and how it has corrupted and strapped the US judicial system into thinking that [extending rights to] terrorists and foreign fighters are deserving of US constitutional rights.

seekerof

[edit on 5-12-2005 by Seekerof]

SkepticOverlord

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 11:47 AM

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Originally posted by djohnsto77
I'm not really sure why Europeans are making such a big deal out of this.

Because perhaps there may be fundamental human rights violations that are going unchecked?

Just a guess.

Seekerof

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 11:48 AM

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How can those European nations be worried over fundamantal human rights going unchecked when they themselves are complicit in what the CIA is doing?

seekerof

[edit on 5-12-2005 by Seekerof]

Souljah

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 11:53 AM

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Originally posted by djohnsto77
I'm not really sure why Europeans are making such a big deal out of this. Unless western countries are willling to take the necessary steps to combat terrorism and deal effectively with terrorists, we will not be able to stop this scourge from taking down our civilization.

I am really Upset to see a statement such as THIS in an ATSNN thread, passing without any problems. The sentance I'm not really sure why Europeans are making such a big deal out of this, is kind of ignorant and belongs to Fox News OReilley Factor.

Why are Europeans making such a big deal out of this?

BECAUSE CIA is conducting Kidnap, Torture and Abuse on the European Soil, without ANY problems!

IF the United States have a problem with any citizen of a certain European state, they can ASK that country to help them catch him or her and to bring him or her to US custody. Why is CIA "ILLEGALY" conducting their operations? Why are there Secret Detention Camps all over the Globe - but NONE IN the United States of America?

Those are the Questions that NEED to be answered - but not with You Approach DJ.

[edit on 5/12/05 by Souljah]

Jakomo

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 12:00 PM

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Read the story on the main page here. If it's tomorrow, then it's the article called "The CIA's Rendition Flights to Secret Prisons: The Torture-Go-Round
By LILA RAJIVA"

www.counterpunch.org...

Khaled al-Masri, a German citizen resident in Ulm, Germany, went on a trip to Macedonia, was arrested by local authorities on New Year's Eve, 2003 and held for over 3 weeks in a motel. Then, he was handcuffed, blindfolded, stripped by masked men, drugged, diapered and flown to Afghanistan, on the basis of a "hunch" by a counter-terrorist chief in the CIA. The hunch was no more than the fact that Masri's name resembled that of an associate of one of the 9-11 hijackers

Masri was imprisoned for five months by Afghans and possibly Americans and claims he was tortured. A bus driver confirms that Masri was snatched up by border guards on the date he alleges; forensic analysis of his hair shows malnutrition during the time he claims he was imprisoned; flight logs confirm that a CIA front company flew a plane out of Macedonia on the day he says he was abducted.

So if you're in favor of having people extradited and tortured based on a hunch, you should probably start practicing your Sieg Hiels.

And maybe hope that they don't get a "hunch" about you or one of your family and friends and end up sending you abroad so you can be tortured.

Terrorists might not have rights (I question that), but what about SUSPECTED terrorists. Do they deserve to be treated like that?

Because I'll tell you something, if they were innocent of the suspicion of being a terrorist, after 3 months of torture sanctioned by the US, they'll be terrorists when they leave.

Hellmutt

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 12:03 PM

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The Europeans make a big deal out of it because it is against international laws and torture is also not so popular in Europe (any more). It´s kind of strange to watch the Saddam trial these days where one of the key charges against Saddam is that he tortured people. As long as it´s the "right guys" doing the torturing then it´s ok, is that the case? Should the Europeans just keep their mouths shut regarding torture unless it´s being commited by any of US´ enemies (like Saddam)? If we pretend that this CIA torture stuff never took place and that Dubya said torture was wrong, would you still be supporting torture? Or do you support torture because of other reasons? Do you realize what allowing torture actually means? So... there are these international laws which can be used against your enemies (like Saddam) but "we are untouchable and we can do whatever we want". Those who protest or dear to ask any questions are "not with us, but against us". Very dangerous if you ask me.

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 12:09 PM

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Originally posted by Souljah
Why is CIA "ILLEGALY" conducting their operations? Why are there Secret Detention Camps all over the Globe - but NONE IN the United States of America?

Those are the Questions that NEED to be answered - but not with You Approach DJ.

[edit on 5/12/05 by Souljah] [/quote

Well, seeing how the host governments pretty much gave the CIA permission, I do see a point to the questions.

And you are incorrect in your assumption that there are no secret prisons on US soil. VERY incorrect.

MERC

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 12:09 PM

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Originally posted by Seekerof

...she will suggest that anything the CIA does has the approval of host governments.

Rice to claim Euro backing for CIA prisons

To insinuate that these countries have no knowledge of those CIA detention facilities or CIA 'ghost' torture planes is highly dubious, if not ludicrous. Those nations are complicit in what the CIA is doing.

Highly likely... in most, if not all cases. I wonder how much the CIA are paying them.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Furthermore, terrorists and foreign fighters have no official standing under international law. There may be handling and moving of terrorists and foreign fighters, but they are not being moved for the sole and express purpose of being tortured. Thank the liberal left and how it has corrupted and strapped the US judicial system into thinking that [extending rights to] terrorists and foreign fighters are deserving of US constitutional rights.

Why would there be "handling and moving of terrorists and foreign fighters" to countries who support torture at all though? Why do that? Anyway, how do we know they are Terrorists and foreign combatants in the first place? Have they been entitled to any sort of fair hearing? And before you say "Yeah, but, but, but... the Liberal left, the Liberal left tricked you all into thinking that Terrorists and Foreign fighters are deserving of U.S constitutional rights", stop. I thought we were supposed to be bringing Democracy to Iraq? The W.M.D scam turned out to be a total lie, what makes the U.S any better than the Dictator they removed if they go around doing whatever the hell they please, disappearing people to secret Eastern European locations, and torturing them with Lindi England’s Terrible Plum like appearance in Cuba, etc, etc?

Souljah

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 12:21 PM

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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Well, seeing how the host governments pretty much gave the CIA permission, I do see a point to the questions.

And you are incorrect in your assumption that there are no secret prisons on US soil. VERY incorrect.

They GAVE them permission?
Why are then the Germans and Italians filing Charges against CIA agents?
IF the goverments gave the CIA permissions, they would not do that.
I wonder how it would make You feel, if France had Secret Prisons in USA - somewhere in Alaska, and that they would kidnap American citizens from their Homes and fly them around in charter aircraft.

As far as Secret prisons on US soil - do you have any Information about them?

MERC

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 12:26 PM

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Souljah, some countries obviously knew, and were bieng paid. I couldn't tell you which knew and which didn't though.

SkepticOverlord

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 12:36 PM

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Originally posted by Seekerof
How can those European nations be worried over fundamantal human rights going unchecked when they themselves are complicit in what the CIA is doing?

Can you support this statement?

I'm certain covert elements in some European nations are cooperating with these tactics. But I doubt all. And in any event, the policies of covert government agencies very often do not reflect the same ideals as the governments themselves.

27jd

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 12:45 PM

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Aren't most of these secret prisons in eastern Europe? Do most of those countries even have established governments that condemn torture? I thought they were still kinda fresh from behind the iron curtain, but I'm no expert and I am probably wrong, but if there's anywhere they will let you twist nipples, it would probably be there.

cbreath

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 12:51 PM

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I fully agree. I doubt the governments in these countries are unaware; it is almost certain the citizenry are ignorant of it, but who needs them except to rubberstamp option 1 or 1a in a periodic elections. That's par for the course in modern "democracy".

Perhaps Rice could send the 18 or 19 agents with outstanding arrest warrants to Italy where they could face a mock trial for kidnapping. Odd how Interpol machinery just dang-well jams up when CIA agents are the subjects of the warrants. Heck, just needs more oil maybe.

One good thing is that this will focus European plebs' attention on our government's conduct. Plenty of plane spotters have recorded these chartered planes stopping off in Europe; that's aiding and abetting torture, which is a crime under the relevant UN resolutions - adopted by European states.

The US Postal service will NOT have the exclusive franchise on delivery of war crimes indictments if, one silly day, justice is served.

Odium

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 01:20 PM

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Seekerof, there was a case of the Italian Government - wasn't there?

Where the Judge and the Government said they had no knowledge the United State's was flying people out on C.I.A. planes from U.S. bases to be tortured...

If these cases are true, well it shows the U.S. in a whole new light.

Would you like it, if it was the other way around?

djohnsto77

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 01:26 PM

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I don't understand why people automatically assume that people are being tortured there. Even some people claiming to have been detainees at these sites don't say that they were abused:

Three Yemeni nationals who were arrested in late 2003 say they were transferred to U.S. custody and kept isolated in at least four secret detention facilities that Amnesty International officials believe could be part of a covert CIA prison system.

The three detainees have not said they were physically abused while in U.S. custody, but they describe being whisked away in airplanes to unknown locations where they were interrogated by Americans in civilian clothes, according to an Amnesty International report. At one prison, the detainees were guarded by people in all-black "ninja" suits, who communicated using hand gestures.

Washington Post

shanti23

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 01:34 PM

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If America is transporting terrorist suspects to Eastern European countries for torture, then they are no better than the terrorists.

Let us hope it is not true.

[edit on 5-12-2005 by shanti23]

Souljah

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 01:40 PM

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Originally posted by MERC
Souljah, some countries obviously knew, and were bieng paid. I couldn't tell you which knew and which didn't though.

Ofcourse some KNEW - the ones that had Detention Camps on their Soil, like Poland, Romania and some Ex-Eastern Block Countries, that really wanna suck up to the US and do everything they say. BUT I belive that the Majority had nothing to do with it, or maybe they refused the CIA proposal...

deltaboy

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 01:49 PM

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Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by MERC
Souljah, some countries obviously knew, and were bieng paid. I couldn't tell you which knew and which didn't though.

Ofcourse some KNEW - the ones that had Detention Camps on their Soil, like Poland, Romania and some Ex-Eastern Block Countries, that really wanna suck up to the US and do everything they say. BUT I belive that the Majority had nothing to do with it, or maybe they refused the CIA proposal...

Maybe you like to know about the Alliance Base which involves nations like France, Britain, Canada, etc.? You be surprise what goes on behind the scenes.