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Originally posted by rogue1
LOL, if the Americans were in Africa you'd be compplaining about it just as vehemently. Don't lie and say you wouldn't.
As for selling weapons to China, what about Russia nad Asia they selll a mssive amount of weapons to Africa. But if course as ususal you completely leave out any facts, which will taint your rant. We all know this though lol.
Originally posted by American Mad Man
1) I know you don't understand it, but the world at large does not consider the feelings you may have when making decisions. Frankly, how you may feel is as relavent as how I may feel. In short, nations and the world can not consider every individuals personal feelings, and even if they could somehow get an accurate portrayal of every individuals feelings on every single topic, there is absolutely no way to satisfy every individuals personal feelings.
2) Despite how you may feel, history has proven thus far that nuclear weapons prevent wars, thus making the nations that possess them safer. Pre 1945, the "great powers" of the world went to war with frequence. Why? Because those in power (don't you generally dislike those elite dictators?) had nothing to fear personally. The king of England could order war on France, and millions could die...but in the end the two kings would have little to fear. Now, those elites know that not only will any power they have be taken away by nuclear weapons, but they personally and teir families stand a very good chance of getting vaporized with the rest of us.
You should be sure that I haven't been there before assuming so.
I do know what I am talking about. I was there on business and on vocation.
No. It was about the North and it's communist government backed by the Soviets trying to invade the South, which was supported by the US
Why don't you compare the number of US foot soldiers that entered North Vietnam vs the number that entered Iraq. There is a bit of a difference.
Hitler should have been allowed to take control of all of Europe and Africa, because he would fall "sooner or later"?????
What does your grand father have to do with what you personally know? You claim that war never solved anything... Well, CLEARLY, WWII solved the evil Nazi death camps didn't it. Or do you deny that their end in Nazi Germany and it's conquered land were brought about by Germanys defeat in WWII?
We act in our own best intrests first, and if we can help the world at large and it is realistic then - being the great nation we are - such action is taken.
Actualy, we halted our sales to him long ago Souljah.
Besides, is it wrong to try to fix our mistakes?
Originally posted by ludaChris
I actually agree with Souljah on the fact that it is the tactic of fear that is the only thing that kept the world from nuclear annihalation, but why would you say they were not afraid to use them. If that were true they would have used them. At the same time, Souljah if it wasnt for that fear where would we be now. Good book about that very subject, while fiction, is Tom Clancy's The Sum of All Fears.
"See, free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction."
Mister President - do by your definiton the United States of America not Qualify as a Free Country then?
Originally posted by Souljah
Listen AMM - I was Expressing my OPINION regarding the Nuclear security, that it is not a Tactic of PEACE - but a tactic of FEAR. No FOOL would risk a Global Nuclear Exchange, right? That's how the system of Nuclear Powers work: You have them and so do We, and we both are not Afraid to use them.
Those ELITE Few that own Nuclear Weapons can command the others what is good and what is not. Million people are still dying you know - but in certain places you don't even know exsist. Their lives are not important. Their country is not an essential Geo-Strategic Point on this Globe, so nobody cares. Who gives them the "Nuclear Weapon Assurance"?
You were? Really?
No - it was nothing else, but pure muscle flexing.
Again - the US Military Complex NEEDED that War, or else they could not develop new weapon systems and sell them.
Does not matter - it is still an Invasion.
You ALWAYS take all the Credit for "Saving Europe" from Hitler - but you always FORGET who payed the BIGGEST Price for the Battle for Europe: the Russians. Hell, more Yugoslav Partisans gave their Lives then US Soldiers!
Ofcourse it ended the Nazi Ruling, that is more then Obvious
but it created yet another "War Scenario" betwee the East and the West, proving just one thing; That WARS do not SOLVE anything, they just make more Borderlines and create more Fragmented Society that HATES each other.
So, it is in your "Best Interests" to "Liberate" the people of Iraq and to keep the People of the Middle East Under Coalition Control - but it is NOT in your Interests to Help the people of Africa.
So you ADMIT that helping Saddam get to power and arming him was a MISTAKE?
Originally posted by American Mad Man
Who says that fear and peace are mutually exclusive Souljah? Fear is not always a bad thing. People fear all sorts of things. Why? Because they are dangerous. This fear is justified and keeps them safe. Likewise, fear of nuclear weapons is healthy and justified. This fear prevents wars. In this case, fear is the tool by which we obtain peace.
Is China telling Canada what is good and what is not? Is Russia dictating to Argentina? Is the UK dictating to Mexico? Is the US dictating to Germany? Is France dictating to Brazil?
As for "millions of people are dying" - it is a shame, unfortunately with my head firmly rooted in reality, I can say that there will always be people dying. There is no way to prevent death Souljah, and there is equally no way to prevent every travisty in the world. As much as you or I may want to save every single person from every single hardship, there is no realistic way to do it.
It is your own ignorant views of Americans which assumes that we never travel anywhere, and have no experience in other nations.
Well Souljah, I do not agree with you. I do not believe that the North just wanted to "flex it's muscles" - I think they genuinly wanted to invade the south and have a unified communist Vietnam.
Well Souljah, again I dissagree. The difference between war time and peace time is how the money is spent. In peace time, more money goes to R&D. During war time, more goes towards procurement. The simple fact is that for every dollar made selling existing weapons for a war, they lose a dollar from cancelled weapons programs.
The US NEVER INVADED the North in Vietnam. That is simple historical fact that you can not argue.
What I do argue is that without US support, Russia would never have been able to mount such a war. Again, that is simple historical fact. Even Stalin admited it.
So you admit that war DID in fact solve something?
Well, I don't agree. I don't HATE Germany or Japan for WWII. I don't HATE Russia for the cold war. I don't HATE Iraq for GWI and II. Wars do, however, solve things. This has been proven through out history. It's not that they always solve the problem being fought over, but they can and often do solve conflicts.
Yes, that is correct Souljah. African nations pose no threat to the US. Iraq had an unstable leader who represented a threat to the US.
BTW - the US DOES help the people of Africa, Souljah. Take a look at how much aid we give them. Do you remember Somolia? We sent our BEST soldiers there to help them, our most elite. Besides, I thought you didn't like the US getting involved in everyone elses business.
The thing that must be considered is the time it was done. At that moment, it seemed like the best option. Looking back, it was a poor choice, and one that the US has taken steps to correct.
Originally posted by Souljah
But FEAR is also GREAT for the Goverment to keep Control of their people - to keep them all rounded up, like little sheeps around a shepard, that fear the big bad wolf. When the Public FEARs something, like Terrorists, they hold the hand of the goverment strongly, because they lead them in the Dark.
But is US telling North Korea?
Is US telling Iran?
You're probably Right.
If there is no Will, there is No WAY.
I guess people are just too occupied with their own little problems and are living in their own little "box" of space on this World, that they fail to see what is going on around them. Yes, people die. And some people have the power to stop that. But they do not want to. It won't bring them any profit. They will not benefit from helping others.
I didn't say you never travel anywhere - I am only aware of the geological knowledge of an averege American, which thinks North Korea is in Australia, and that Somalia is somewhere near Slovenia.
So - the United States would NEVER allow that to happen, right?
But, if the South invaded North, it would be OK?
More and More I think that PEACETIME is only a Timeout between two wars, used to regroup and rearm - just like a timeout between two rounds of boxing. Sometimes this timeout lasts 5 years, sometimes 15 and sometimes 50.
SO, why did the US have to FAKE the Tonking Incident?
I do not agree.
The Russians were maybe crazy, but not Dumb.
If you are not aware, they moved their entire Industry Complex from the West to the East - out of reach of German Bombers and Armies. It was only a matter of time, before the Mighty Soviet War Industry starts to produce enormous ammounts of War Equipment and starts sending it West via Trans-Cyberian railroad. Eventually Germans would run out of Men, Equipment and Resources - remember, Russia is BIG!
Ofcourse it Solved something - it removed the Crazy Nazis from the Throne.
Wars today are not about solving anything or anybody.
Times we live in today have changed alot, my American Man Friend.
And with times, people also changed.
Wars today only change the Stock Market, nothing else.
How did Saddam pose a Threat to the US?
Or the Taliban of Afganistan?
Did they INVADE the US?
Do they have the POWER and the MONEY to do that?
There are many Islamic Fundamentalists in Africa you know.
So - the US went ONCE in Africa to help and it got a bitter taste of it.
BUT, they can be in Middle East for Years, and let US soldiers die on daily basis in Iraq - and that won't turn you away from it.
Somalia was a Picnic compared to Iraq.
But yet again - IF there is a WILL, there is a WAY.
So, maybe, Liberating Iraq TODAY seems also a like the "Best Option" - but in few years time, you will see that it was actually a POOR choice?
Originally posted by Uomini
You must take into consideration the immense power of the U.S. Government in all of it's capabilities. Mainly, in this case, the U.S. Naval Submarine Force provides such a mobile escort for Trident warheads, capable of maintaining a world-wide presence, undetected. That is how all of this became possible. The development of SSBN Nuclear Submarines.
Originally posted by agwardlds
Project Falcon is a space weapon capable of global strike. I'm sure we have it.
Originally posted by Souljah
Fear IS a Mind Killer. And Fear IS a type of Control.