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Mormon

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posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 09:07 PM
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I just want to ask in why so many people are so urgent in portraying "mormons" as totally evil, and wrong in their beliefs and intentions..I've come to learn that LDS members (if any of u had the chance to meet them) are very nice...well kept...humble people....they are always striving to do good...and will help anyone they can if they get the opportunity...so why all the fuss....they are much more "Christ-like" than most people in this "materialistic" world...can't you just respect them..the way they respect "you"...just approach them as a regular person...not as someone who you "think" is learned of a "crazy" religion..just ponder about this...




posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 09:11 PM
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I'm sure most Mormons are good people, but it's hard to ignore the fact that their religion has been proven to be a total farce, a hoax in so many ways. Their intent on trying to portray themselves as just another sect of Christianity invites inspection and criticism from true Christians because so many of their beliefs are in direct opposition to real Christian theology.



posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 10:05 PM
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Hopefully I don't come across as bashing nonMormon religions or djohnsto77, whose posts I respect despite our radically different viewpoints on religion. Now, having said that...

I disagree with pretty much djohnsto's entire post. I don't believe that Mormonism has been proven a hoax. I don't think it has been 'proven a farce' any more than any other religion has. As a Mormon myself, I've looked into a lot of the history of the religion, and I've read about the stuff that Mormon criticizers like to use, like Kinderhook plates (which Jdidn't fool Joseph Smith, or else we would have a fake translation of them) or the Smith papyri (it has been proven that most did not survive, thus the argument that the surviving ones are the book of breathings doesn't mean the real book of Abraham couldn't have been among the destroyed/lost papyri)

As to whether Mormons are Christians or not, I would have to say they are. The official name of the Mormon church is 'church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints'. We read the Bible (lots of Christ in there!) and the Book of Mormon (lots of Christ in there, too!) One of our 'articles of faith', the very first one no less (kind of like a mini catechism) states "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost."


so many of their beliefs are in direct opposition to real Christian theology

That depends who you ask. The definition of 'Christian theology' is going to vary dramatically depending who you are talking to. A Catholic is going to have a different Christian theology than, say, a Protestant. Does not having a pope make one nonChristian? Is a religion that allows (or disallows, depending) female religious leaders Christian? Is a religion that has clergy who earn money for preaching, Christian?

While I respect most other religions, in several of the ones I actually know a little bit about, I see things in them that, in my mind, make them untrue, in the same way that djohnsto sees things in Mormonism that he believes makes it untrue. Who is right? I don't know. I think I am, but we won't know for sure until we're dead, and I'd rather put that day off for a little while!

I know from other posts that djohnsto believes Mormonism false based on things he has read about the book of Abraham's origins, among other things. There are similar kinds of things that bug me in other religions, too, like how at one point in the Catholic church, there were 2 (or for a brief time, 3) popes who were all claiming to be pope, while sinning with their mistresses and excommunicating each other; meanwhile, their children were fighting over their inheritance. (popes aren't supposed to have mistresses, children, or be in it for the money, as I recall) Other stuff, like the Crusades, or indulgences, or limbo, don't strike me as Christian, either, but again, that is solely my opinion, and others will certainly disagree with me. (and have the right to do so) Others believe that having an extra body of scripture in addition to the Bible isn't Christian, either.

I guess it's like anything else. There's always 2 sides to an issue (at least!) My advice, and this goes for any topic, is if you want to learn about it, get as many points of view as you can. Talk to some real Mormons like me. Talk to some critics of Mormonism like djohnsto. Read a few books on the subject. Compare it to similar things, in this case, compare Mormonism to other religions. Since religion (unlike something such as science) is quite subjective, different people are always going to come up with different opinions based on the same information, due to inherent bias. For example, if I say that in all my reading, I've never found anything that proves Mormonism a hoax, as djohnsto asserts, that could be due to a number of reasons. It might be true, but then, my bias might make me rationalize away something I didn't like, or I might not have experienced whatever djohnsto did to convince him Mormonism is a hoax, or maybe there is some other reason?

Once more I seem to have written a very long post on this subject, that probably put most people to sleep. Anyway, that is my two cents on the subject, and hopefully djohnsto doesn't hate me forever now for disagreeing with him, hehe. His posts are always interesting to read, often because we are so different.



posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 01:32 AM
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Maybe no one likes them because they dress up in suits to go to in-n-out burger. Also because you see these two govt looking guys coming to your doorstep carrying a small black thing. What would you do in this situation. Well I would run or take out a Desert Eagle and blast em cause they look like freaken government agents!



posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist06
Maybe no one likes them because they dress up in suits to go to in-n-out burger. Also because you see these two govt looking guys coming to your doorstep carrying a small black thing. What would you do in this situation. Well I would run or take out a Desert Eagle and blast em cause they look like freaken government agents!


The ATS crowd is...How shall I put this...fringe. Most people, when they see folks coming in suits, don't immediately think the man is on to their dissent


As to Mormons, there is a primary contention between Christianity as a whole and Mormon beliefs. Every denomination of Christianity, from the Catholics to the Evangelicals, the Baptists to the Lutherans, all believe in the divinity of Christ. Even the word Christian -- A Christian is like an American, we are members in the Body of Christ. Yet Mormon belief puts forward that we are not members in the Body of Christ, but rather this Jesus character was actually the Archangel Michael pretending to be this Jesus character.

To say that Mormons are Christian because they say so would be like me being liberal because I say so. My politics and opinions are, by no means, liberal; if I call myself a liberal, does that make it true?



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 04:19 PM
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In China, We put all non-catholic sects as "Protestant" andall Catholic Sects as "Catholic" and treat them as 2 different religions, tax them, conscript them if need be and treat them as any other citizens, religion is never an issue, you have your freedoms worship privately there should be no need to disturb the peace otherwise.



posted on Dec, 18 2005 @ 06:18 PM
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I'm actually in the process of converting to Mormon, Reading the book of Mormon makes me feel oh so well



posted on Dec, 19 2005 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by Poison
I'm actually in the process of converting to Mormon, Reading the book of Mormon makes me feel oh so well



You won't regret it.

I'm also a Mormon and I'm glad Dragons posted because I know that I wouldn't be able to write that much.

llama009



posted on Dec, 19 2005 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake
Every denomination of Christianity, from the Catholics to the Evangelicals, the Baptists to the Lutherans, all believe in the divinity of Christ.


That would only be true if you exclude Christian denominations that do not believe in the divinity of Christ. These denominations often pre-date most forms of mainstream Christianity, and cannot be said to be opportunist doctrines.

Such denominations which do not agree with mainstream Christianity doctrine include Ebionites, Docetites, Simonianism, Marcionism, Manotism and Gnosticism.

Who has authority to say which forms of early Christianity have the right to be considered "Christian"?

[edit on 19/12/2005 by AkashicWanderer]



posted on Dec, 19 2005 @ 08:25 PM
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Since the title of this thread is simply Mormon I will ask a question here instead of starting a new thread.

I encounter Mormon Missionaries probably 6 or seven times a year. Usually I just tell them politely that I don't want to talk to them.
My question is why are the Missionaries always a pair of young men? Why not young women or mixed, or why not older folk?



posted on Dec, 19 2005 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by Umbrax
Since the title of this thread is simply Mormon I will ask a question here instead of starting a new thread.

I encounter Mormon Missionaries probably 6 or seven times a year. Usually I just tell them politely that I don't want to talk to them.
My question is why are the Missionaries always a pair of young men? Why not young women or mixed, or why not older folk?


Actually, sometimes young women do go on missions, but it's much rarer, which is why you probably haven't seen them at your door. I'd say the number of men to women on missions is probably 10:1 or more. The reason for this is because the church strongly encourages all men on missions, but don't put the same emphasis on women.

Older people sometimes go on missions, too, but it is always married couples. There is a rule that young people cannot go on a mission after (and I always forget the number) either their 26th or 27th birthday; I have no idea what the reason for that is. The older couples that serve missions don't typically go walking door-to-door (not exactly the easiest thing for old people to do) and usually do things like work in a visitor's center at a temple or in a genealogical library or that sort of thing. They also sometimes serve as mission presidents where they organize the younger missionaries. The church never puts two missionaries of the opposite sex together unless they are one of the aforementioned older married couples. There's actually a bunch of rules about how young missionaries are supposed to avoid being alone with someone of the opposite sex; the reasons being to avoid any kind of temptations, misunderstandings, or that sort of thing.

edit begins here:

Hello poison and llama009
There's a few other Mormons on the board that I know of, but none of them have been active in a long time. Good to meet you guys!

[edit on 19-12-2005 by DragonsDemesne]



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by rigo_s
I just want to ask in why so many people are so urgent in portraying "mormons" as totally evil


Because their ideologies are ideologies born of thier own fears. Ultimatley the majority of them who achieve the power they strive to obtain have such a weak inner constitution, and are such cowards they fail to resolve their fears within their own minds first, before manifesting them in our shared reality. Essentially their actions and behaviors demonstrate how cowardly they truly are in regards to failing to have the faith they say they have in order to conquerer their own fears. Although, I recognize their path does teach effective ways to present followers ot their faith to address their own fears.

I've come to learn that LDS members (if any of u had the chance to meet them) are very nice...well kept...humble people...

Humble people who lobby to impose their judgement (judging is something supplied to mankind by the devil) on people they have chosen that they know better than.



.they are always striving to do good...and will help anyone they can if they get the opportunity...so why all the fuss....they are much more "Christ-like" than most people in this "materialistic" world...can't you just respect them..the way they respect "you"..


Maybe I'm just a little bitter for having to pay Mormons $100.00 for having smoked in public while driving through some suburbs of Phoenix Arizona. Interesting how many more people get skin cancer in America than smokers in America get cancer, yet the sun was not banned on the beaches of California, but the Mormons paid big bucks to get smoking banned on the beaches of California.

I think I respect them even more than they respect me. Their choices are still dependant upon their fears and their hates. But, honestly, how can one justify their hate for someone without first being afraid that that which they hate had the potential to take something/someone they love away from them. Actions and behaviors speak much louder than words. And Mormons' actions demonstrate the intent to rule and accumilate power, and impose their morality and virtues on the masses of people in society. I have problems comprehending how they can respectfully demostrate respect for anything within this world when they pass judgement like GOD upon those who reside here in the "materialistic" world. Don't like the "materialistic" world? Then leave. Maybe then I won't have to pay $100.00 for smoking a cigerette outside where their laws dominate over freedom. Perhaps if their God was so great and powerful then they wouldn't have to impose their interpretation of it on me, but obviously their God is weak and not present in my life. Their God doesn't exist anywhere around me, which is why their bicycle safety crew makes their rounds door to door in my neighborhood. My point is I see my God in them, they must not see their God in any of it, because their God has proven inept of omnipresence and omnipotence. They must think so, just evaluate their intentions by their actions and behaviors.


.just approach them as a regular person...not as someone who you "think" is learned of a "crazy" religion..just ponder about this...


If Mormons' continue to degrade civil liberties, then their brand of thinking is crazy. But, I guess I am pro-happiness, and pro-free will.

Mormoms for free will?

Actions and behaviors seem to tell me otherwise.

Judging is something we recieved by listening to SATAN.

Free Will is why SATAN was jealous.

Free Will was God's gift to man.

Mormons demonstrate they are not for "Free Will".

Mormons' ideology only offend me because they offend God's will.

[edit on 20-12-2005 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 12:59 PM
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Ok by your agruement, we should all be allowed to murder anyone who pisses us off, since it is our "free will" we should be allowed to do it?

The burdon of proof fall upon you to prove beyond a doubt that it is Mormons who lobbied for an anti-smoking law, prove beyond any reasonable doubt.

Next, who do Mormons hate? What are they afraid of? Your demonize them in some psuedo-intellectual stanzas yet don't ante up anything of substance to prove your claims.

Next, Even if Mormons did lobby for those laws, so what? If they were unreasoanble certaintly there would've been people who would've opposed such a law on also equally reasonable grounds? To blame Mormons for lobbying for something reasonable is akin to blaming the Jews for wishing not to have pork sold in their neighbourhood. Or Blacks wishing not to be called (for reasons of perspective) 'n-word's.

In China, we're outlawing smoking dispite being a culture that loves a good smoke, so if everyone loves to do it, why outlaw it? Because the act of smoking is scientifically proven to be dangerous to your health and even smoking in moderation over an extended period (if possible to smoke only in "moderation") is also proven to have yielded adverse long term and short term effects and banning it in public places and banning advertisement (which is akin to propoganda) are several steps forward in progress to get people for their own good to stop smoking.

Just as your god for "our own good" gave us ten commandments (supposedly) inorder to get humanity to act and work together as good people. And now that almost every single nation with a written constatution follows in one form or another or whose civil and criminal code also to a certain extent follows those commandments is proof of their wisdom.

Thus while you saw God gave us free will he also gave us rules so that we can act responsibly and today society takes God's place and alos gives us rules that we the People and the Popular Masses and the Proletariet vote and decide these rules that we as a society agree to follow. It is the Democratic System and to complain about the system just because it isn't doing what you selfishly want it to do is quite undertandable proof that it IS working.

So thus I ask you in conclusion to state WHY you think Mormons are evil and to privide substance to prove your case, how do they "offent" Gods will?

[edit on 20-12-2005 by The Middle Kingdom]



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
Ok by your agruement, we should all be allowed to murder anyone who pisses us off, since it is our "free will" we should be allowed to do it?


If every person on the face of this planet were to smoke 1/2 a pack a day outside then in 50 years there would be 1 part of cig smoke per (approximatley) 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, parts per air.

As for being allowed to murder anyone we want, if that's what you choose to extrapilate from my statements, well then, that says far more about you than it does about me.


The burdon of proof fall upon you to prove beyond a doubt that it is Mormons who lobbied for an anti-smoking law, prove beyond any reasonable doubt.


No, it doesn't.



Next, who do Mormons hate? What are they afraid of? Your demonize them in some psuedo-intellectual stanzas yet don't ante up anything of substance to prove your claims.

The city council that passed the law was 100% Mormon. The law was passed. Enough said.


Next, Even if Mormons did lobby for those laws, so what?


I don't recall having a choice in the process of taking my liberties and freedoms away from me. However, their supporters pay them the money to effect my liberties and freedoms which in turn enable them to take my money for smoking in a friends privatly owned front yard. That is the so what part.


If they were unreasoanble certaintly there would've been people who would've opposed such a law on also equally reasonable grounds?


Obviously not in a population, who were (the majority) Mormons. Now, the fact that the law was passed, and the fact that the majority of the population was/is Mormon lead me to believe that they are not reasonable. I was there stopping by a friends house while driving cross country. While smoking a cigerette in his front yard (privatley owned) I was presented by a police officer with a ticket for smoking in public. I explained I was ignorant of the law. I ended up paying it regardless.


To blame Mormons for lobbying for something reasonable is akin to blaming the Jews for wishing not to have pork sold in their neighbourhood.


not necessarily. Could I eat pork in a public area in a Jewish neighborhood? Yes.


Or Blacks wishing not to be called (for reasons of perspective) 'n-word's.


Once again, no it is not the same. Because if I wanted to, I could use that word.



In China, we're outlawing smoking dispite being a culture that loves a good smoke, so if everyone loves to do it, why outlaw it?


Never thought of it like that. Mormons are alot like Communists. Thanks.



Because the act of smoking is scientifically proven to be dangerous to your health and even smoking in moderation over an extended period (if possible to smoke only in "moderation") is also proven to have yielded adverse long term and short term effects and banning it in public places and banning advertisement (which is akin to propoganda) are several steps forward in progress to get people for their own good to stop smoking.


Free Will. Take it from me, and it will be taken from them.



Thus while you saw God gave us free will he also gave us rules so that we can act responsibly and today society takes God's place and alos gives us rules that we the People and the Popular Masses and the Proletariet vote and decide these rules that we as a society agree to follow. It is the Democratic System and to complain about the system just because it isn't doing what you selfishly want it to do is quite undertandable proof that it IS working.


Democracy isn't even working by their standards!

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind"
- Yehoshua bin Yosef, aka Jesus

They say they follow Jesus's teachings. Yet, the actions and behaviors of the entire Christian USA demonstrates otherwise.

To put this in perspective:
19 individuals toppled 2 buildings.
The 19 people were from Saudi Arabia and Egypt.
America overthrew 2 countries: Afghanistan & Iraq.

President Bush recieved 64% of Mormon votes according to poles I've been shown. So, do the 64% accuratley reflect Christ's teachings, or more accuratley reflect their own fears of terrorism? Actions speak louder.


Waiting for World War III?

If it is a "Global War On Terror", then WWIII already started a few years ago, and did you even really know it until you read this?



So thus I ask you in conclusion to state WHY you think Mormons are evil and to privide substance to prove your case, how do they "offent" Gods will?


I choose to form my opinions individually. I don't think they are all evil, no more than I think everone is evil.

However, their interpretations from thier point view creates a perception from their point of veiw that demonstrate because of their actions and behaviors that they know best, even at the expense of other peoples' liberties and freedoms. I'm not talking about the free will to walk up to anyone and snuff the life right out of them. I'm talking about the right to smoke a cigerette on my front porch without having to pay church for it.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go home and continue to pack. I'm leaving in a few days for Iraq. Happy Hollidays.

[edit on 20-12-2005 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 08:14 AM
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First off, I gathered that as an analogy, your saying that Mormons are denying you your free will, I say otherwise, it is society, your duly elected government that is taking away your "freedoms" a gov't elected by the majority. That is how democracy works, if you do not like Democracy live in Saudi Arabia.

Secondly, yes it does, and here's why in any intelligent conversation statements HAVE to be backed up by undenyable proof or else its meaningless, your statements on anything related to Mormons lobbying for Anti-Smoking Laws are rendered meaningless if you are unable to handle the burdon of proof then don't make the statement.

As for Mormons/supproters + money etc, isn't that how your government works? Your have a political party, their lobbyists and their fundraisers and supporters who all give money to that Party inorer to get them to win elections? May I ask you a question? Did you vote? If you did not vote then you have NO say, its as simple as that, vote and try to make a difference complaining about Mormons in this case is meaningless.

Also didn't you say that you only had to pay a fine for smoking on a beach? Thats understandable considering that smoking on beaches could give second hand smoke to children.


Could I eat pork in a public area in a Jewish neighborhood?


That to me is considered extremely rude and offencive and I'm certain that they're are laws to prevent disturbing the peace.

So they're we have it, the majority of the people there are Mormons, according to the democratic system majority wins, if they were doing stuff that was outrageous a court judge would strike down any unconstitutional law, its entirely reasonably for a majority within an area to wish to have the laws in such a way to favor what the majority wants.

Finally, WWIII isa irrelevent for this discussion, what the US President does is irrelevent and finally what Mormons may think INDIVIDUALLY is irelvent, the fact that from your source its only 63-64% of Mormons means that they're are Mormons whose Opinions are against the War on Terror to call Mormon idealogy evil because they are taking away civil liberties is asinine in the extreme because it is entirely up the personal opinion of each and every Mormon, NOT their faith.

Besides, Smoking is bad for your health, its slow radiation poisoning to your lungs you don't exactly deserve much sympathy because you had to pay 100$ for smoking a cig, in fact it should COST 100$ a cig.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 01:03 PM
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This is a little off topic but, i was raised in a mormon family. i thought mormons were sooooo nice and caring and wrongly discriminated against. THEN i grew up! they brain wash their members. i remember being told that as soon as i was 18 i needed to go enroll at BYU find a nice return missionary get married and pop out 5 babies so that i could gaurantee a spot in the celestrial kingdom! yes they believe there are different "levels" of heaven and you can only go to the highest level of glory if you are married with kids and baptized in the mormon church.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
That would only be true if you exclude Christian denominations that do not believe in the divinity of Christ. These denominations often pre-date most forms of mainstream Christianity, and cannot be said to be opportunist doctrines.


Yes they can. Almost the moment everyone who experienced Christ's life had died and their direct descendants had died, the Gnostics came out of the woodwork saying Christ was really a Gnostic, all those people who people now say were Christian, like Paul and Peter, were in fact Gnostic, and then tried to introduce false gospels promoting gnosticism off of Christianity, a religion people held to so strongly they would rather die than renounce what they knew to be the truth. Those Christian denominations you're referring to did not practice Christianity as Christ told us to practice our faith, they practiced gnosticism with the label "Christian" to try to hijack a true religion.



Who has authority to say which forms of early Christianity have the right to be considered "Christian"?
Christ, the Bible and the Word. The people that followed Christ's teachings, including His God complex. You can choose to believe in His divinity or not, but He certainly did. The other option is to take bits and pieces of the Bible that you like and say those are true, then ignore the other parts that you don't like.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 02:05 PM
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"And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them." (Moses 7:22 )


You'll forgive me if I don't follow this faith exactly. I'm sure that mormons are very nice people, but what's that old saying. "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"

[edit on 21-12-2005 by Rasobasi420]



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420

"And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them." (Moses 7:22 (for a side by side comparison of relevant sections of Joseph Smith's translation to the KJV, see Curse of Cain/Genesis))


You'll forgive me if I don't follow this faith exactly. I'm sure that mormons are very nice people, but what's that old saying. "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"



Ya. I personnally don't care for religions who preach an entire race is damned.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake
Almost the moment everyone who experienced Christ's life had died and their direct descendants had died, the Gnostics came out of the woodwork saying Christ was really a Gnostic, all those people who people now say were Christian, like Paul and Peter, were in fact Gnostic, and then tried to introduce false gospels promoting gnosticism off of Christianity, a religion people held to so strongly they would rather die than renounce what they knew to be the truth.


Although this is certainly a plausible theory, it is not anything more than that. I don't think we can decide which groups are allowed to label themselves "Christian" based on the possibility of the above events having taking place.

Most scholars believe that the (Gnostic) Gospel of Thomas was written circa 50 CE, while a few believe that it was written as late as 150 CE. Certainly by 50 CE not all of the direct descendants of those who knew Jesus had died. If it was in fact written in 50 CE, we can safely say that the Gnostics did not begin to write false gospels after all witnesses were dead. Of course I will make no assumption based on such subjective evidence, but we must remember that there are many possibilities, and that labelling one such possibility as absolute will not allow us to see the whole picture.


Those Christian denominations you're referring to did not practice Christianity as Christ told us to practice our faith,


How do you know the practices of Ancient Gnosticism, and that they did not conform with the exact teachings that Jesus gave to his followers?

We know very little about Ancient Gnosticism and their practices. Making educated guesses about their doctrine and beliefs is about the best we can hope for. Likewise we can only make educated guesses about the teachings that Jesus gave to his followers on earth.


they practiced gnosticism with the label "Christian" to try to hijack a true religion.


Perhaps...

~~~~~

I asked:


Who has authority to say which forms of early Christianity have the right to be considered "Christian"?


You responded:


Christ, the Bible and the Word.


Agreed



The people that followed Christ's teachings, including His God complex.


If you mean the people that experienced Jesus' life then it would be logical to assume that such people are no longer alive today, and therefore are not a reliable source of information.


You can choose to believe in His divinity or not, but He certainly did.


I think it is important to make a distinction between what the bible says Jesus said, and what Jesus actually said. The bible is certainly a source of information about Jesus' life and sayings, but I don't think any of us can testify to know, to be absolutely certain, that what the bible claims Jesus believed, was actually believed by Jesus.


The other option is to take bits and pieces of the Bible that you like and say those are true, then ignore the other parts that you don't like.


(Matthew 7:13-14) “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

Inverencial Peace,
Akashic

[edit on 21/12/2005 by AkashicWanderer]



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