NEWS: Report: Tamiflu "Useless" Against H5N1 Bird Flu, page 2
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reply posted on 5-12-2005 @ 02:08 PM by soficrow
Originally posted by CogitoErgoSum1
Am I to understand that the use of H5N1 to scare people into believing there would be a pandemic has been 12 years in the making?


Scientists began warning authorities 46 years ago, when H5N1 first appeared in 1959. The warnings stepped up as time went on and other factors were identified. The biological point of "self-organized criticality" was reached in 1997, 6 years ago.

Plenty of positioning going on from the get go, believe me.



The fact that Rumsfeld sat on Gilead's board for 12 years and was chairmen from 1997-2001, recused himself from Gilead after joining the Bush Administration


Nope. He only recused himself when his conflict of interest came out publicly - not that long ago.



was all a plot for him to make some cash by scaring the American people or those from other countries into thinking that we would need to stockpile Tamiflu for prevention purposes?


Just how do you think these guyz function?

Everything they do is about making money. There are no problems, only solutions. There are no crises, only opportunities - for profit.



It makes me wonder who was profiting from the sell of “duct tape” when we were told that “duct tape” to seal our windows would help during a biological attack or any company/individuals that profit from situations such as these for that matter.


Good question.

Sounds like a research project to me.


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reply posted on 5-12-2005 @ 06:03 PM by HowlrunnerIV
Originally posted by soficrow
Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

The news on Tamiflu has been out for a while, it isn't designed to combat Avian influenza strain H5N1, the governments are telling us that they hope scientists can use it as a starting point for the vaccine that will kill H5N1.



Odd, that info snippet. Tamiflu isn't even a vaccine - how could it be the 'starting point' for an H5N1 vaccine. Especially when there aleady are existent H5N1 vaccines?




In any case, H5N1 will not be the super flu, but a new strain mutated from it, most probably a combination of birdflu and swine flu. H5N1 bird flu can, so far, only be transmitted human-to-human by contact with blood. Swine flue is a little different and therefore nastier. It just isn't as deadly.


H5N1 does not require species specific genetic components. Other flus normally reassort with swine flu, but H5N1 does not need to go through that process.

Don't know where you get your info about blood - any references? My research shows that even feathers are considered a vector - and that the dominant route of transmission is respiratory.


H5N1 is passed from bird to human through dired and powdered faeces being inhaled, which is why the primary victims have been poultry farmers.

You can cook and eat the dead chooks and have no ill effects.

The only case of human to human transmission in Thailand was of a woman who contracted the disease after her daughter died in her arms coughing blood. The woman had had no contact with poultry, the daughter had.

Feathers???

H5N1 certainly does need to go through a recombination process before it can be passed human to human.

If H5N1 could be passed human to human we'd already be dead.

Perhaps vaccine is the wrong medical term. I'm not a doctor and tend to use the wrong terms for the wrong ilnesses and medications, ie virus/bacteria and vaccine/whatever.

Either way, the governments are telling us they hope Tamiflu can be the starting point of a bird-flu specific drug.

If there was already an H5N1 vaccine out there why isn't it being distributed?



reply posted on 5-12-2005 @ 06:22 PM by soficrow
Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

H5N1 is passed from bird to human through dired and powdered faeces being inhaled, which is why the primary victims have been poultry farmers.



Like Mad Cow, bird flu could be epidemic and no one would ever know - because the testing protocols are totally inadequate.

H5N1 bird flu is now known to spread person-to-person, and to be asymptomatic in some individuals. This means that unknown to anyone, some people might be carriers.


Relatives of avian flu patients have asymptomatic cases

Mar 9, 2005 (CIDRAP News) – Two relatives of avian influenza patients in northern Vietnam have tested positive for the virus without being sick, according to reports from Vietnam today.

............

researchers have recently described several instances of person-to-person transmission.

Now there is evidence that in rare cases it can spread from person to person.




Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

feathers?



Bird flu can be transmitted in a variety of different ways: between animals, birds and humans via physical contact or droplets in the air; in feces and urine and therefor, in water and soil and from contaminated surfaces. More to the point, the virus apparently can survive an unusually long time without a host.

British microbiologist Professor Hugh Pennington was urging a ban on poultry feathers from China because of possible contamination with the H5N1 bird flu virus.


Feather pillows may carry Asian bird flu

Poultry feathers imported from China to make products such as pillows could carry the avian flu virus, says a British microbiologist who is urging the British Government to consider banning them.





H5N1 certainly does need to go through a recombination process before it can be passed human to human.


Reassortment is different than recombination. Not to nitpick tho.



If H5N1 could be passed human to human we'd already be dead.


I suspect a milder version has been spreading human-to-human for years.



Perhaps vaccine is the wrong medical term. I'm not a doctor and tend to use the wrong terms for the wrong ilnesses and medications, ie virus/bacteria and vaccine/whatever.

Either way, the governments are telling us they hope Tamiflu can be the starting point of a bird-flu specific drug.


Damage control IMO. And cover-ups.



If there was already an H5N1 vaccine out there why isn't it being distributed?


They SAY it's because the deadly strain has yet to develop and the existent vaccine won't work - but really, it's because too many people hold patent and intellectual property rights on the various aspects of the technologies used to make the vaccine. No one is positioned to profit big time, so they're playing different profit angles.

Flu Vaccine Technology: Who's Blocking its Use?


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reply posted on 6-12-2005 @ 06:50 AM by hands
Flu Wiki - Cytokine Storms

That has the info about cytokines and the drug that has yet to be developed.


The 1918 virus was avian and is closely genetically related to H5N1 It didn't reassort merely adapted itself to humans.


[edit on 6-12-2005 by hands]


reply posted on 6-12-2005 @ 09:02 AM by soficrow
Originally posted by hands

Flu Wiki - Cytokine Storms

That has the info about cytokines and the drug that has yet to be developed.



Thanks much hands.



The 1918 virus was avian and is closely genetically related to H5N1 It didn't reassort merely adapted itself to humans.


Exactly - Howlrunner originally used the term reassortment - I think because the terms are confusing to most people.

H5N1 bird flu's most dangerous characteristic is that it already bounces back and forth freely between people and animals - without needing to acquire new genetic information.

H5N1 is a Type A influenza - so it infects birds, people, whales, seals, cats, horses, dogs, ferrets - almost any animal. Sometimes it's deadly; sometimes it's not.

The thing is, birds and whales migrate. And H5N1 was first discovered in Scotland, in 1959. Which means H5N1 has been spreading around the world, and mutating, for 46 years, at least.

We know the deadly form isn't transmitted human-to-human - but my hypothesis is that a less acute form is passing human-to-human, and has been for decades.

I strongly suspect this less deadly form of H5N1 bird flu is a contributing factor in the chronic disease epidemic the world now faces.



Bird Flu: Why Worry Now?

Bird Flu and Beyond: Chronic Disease to Kill 400 Million

Bird Flu and Beyond: Assisted Suicide Instead of Prevention

Quarantine: A Standard Depopulation Strategy




Specifically, H5N1 bird flu appears to be a transmission vector for a disease-causing misfolded protein or "prion" called "a-smooth muscle actin," which underlies most epidemic chronic diseases.

Scan this thread to learn more about a-smooth muscle actin, and how viruses transmit prions.


suzy - Thanks. If you can find more info about Australia's anti-viral - it would be MOST appreciated.


reply posted on 6-12-2005 @ 11:15 AM by soficrow
Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
Originally posted by soficrow
I suspect the fear-mongering obscures the real situation - that H5N1 already is epidemic, and causing a worldwide epidemic of chronic disease.

.


Wouldn't that be "possibly fatal" disease, rather than a chronic one that will debilitate over time... since the ones that dont die, will get well eventually?


"Modern" medicine tends to focus on "acute" symptoms, and to ignore less obvious manifestations of disease, called
formes fruste.

When people recuperate from acute attacks, many doctors assume the disease is "cured" when in fact, it has simply become latent, resolved into a different form, or settled into a chronic phase - a forme fruste.

Chronic disease has become one of the world's largest health crises - and certainly, the USA's.




As i understand it, this is a killer, or you get over it... mostly based upon your level of resistance... artificial organ support thru the worst part of the infection, seems to be the only manmade help available right now...


The hype is about a new strain variation that promises to be a killer - which very well may materialize, if it hasn't already as you suggest. Beyond that, I suspect that the real crisis already is upon us in the form of a chronic disease pandemic - likely related to an earlier H5N1 strain.


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