NEWS: Report: Tamiflu "Useless" Against H5N1 Bird Flu

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posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 06:42 PM
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A Vietnamese doctor who has treated 41 victims of H5N1 bird flu says Tamiflu was not designed to combat H5N1 and is useless against the virus. Dr. Nguyen Tuong Van runs the intensive care unit of the Center for Tropical Diseases in Hanoi. She followed World Health Organization guidelines but concludes Tamiflu had no effect on H5N1. Van says modern technology like ventilators and dialysis machines are needed to help H5N1 bird flu victims stay alive by supporting their liver, kidneys and other vital organs.

 



www.sciencedaily.com
A Vietnamese doctor with experience in treating avian flu says Tamiflu, the drug being stockpiled for treatment of avian flue is useless against the virus. ...Dr. Nguyen Tuong Van of the Centre for Tropical Diseases in Hanoi has treated 41 victims of H5N1, following World Health Organization guidelines and administering Tamiflu to her patients. She told the Sunday Times of London the medicine had no effect.

"We place no importance on using this drug on our patients," she said. "Tamiflu is really only meant for treating ordinary type A flu. It was not designed to combat H5N1."

The newspaper said the finding casts doubt on the British government's pandemic flu policy. The nation's top medical official, Sir Liam Donaldson, has ordered 15 million doses of Tamiflu be stockpiled. ...Van said the only way to keep avian flu patients alive is to "support" all their vital organs -- including the liver and kidneys -- with modern technology like ventilators and dialysis machines, the Sunday Times reported.



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Most nations' pandemic flu policies rely on Tamiflu or a generic copy of the drug. Prevention strategies recommended by scientists as an alternative have been consistently dismissed, most recently at October's international bird flu conference in Canada.

The writing was on the wall for Tamiflu when H5N1 bird flu broke out in 1997 in Hong Kong - and the fatality rate was 70% with Tamiflu treatment.

ATS members have been discussing Tamiflu's dangers, limitations, profitability and beneficiaries for some time:

Tamiflu Linked to Death of 2 Teens
Donald Rumsfeld & Gilead Sciences
Rumsfeld Out Of Bird Flu Planning


More International Coverage

Tamiflu useless against avian flu
www.upi.com...
www.timesonline.co.uk...
news.webindia123.com...
www.menafn.com...
www.newkerala.com...
story.northkoreatimes.com...




posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 06:47 PM
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It isn't even that effective against normal flu - there's an evidence based review from two or three years back somewhere that I've read recently that gives it a thumbs down. I'm just about to close the machine down - so I'll find the links tomorrow.



posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 07:40 PM
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Great find Soficrow

It has been suspected for a while now. Yes ventilators and kidney machines will be needed and I dont see the supply being kept up.



posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 07:44 PM
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So . . . then who made the tamiflu to be so important?

I don't get it, if the vaccine is useless for bird flu, then why its the fuss about stock piling it.



posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
So . . . then who made the tamiflu to be so important?

I don't get it, if the vaccine is useless for bird flu, then why its the fuss about stock piling it.




Aw marg. I know you know.


So what's the latest on Rumsfeld and Gilead?



posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 07:58 PM
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Check out the company that makes tamiflu and who in the white house it links to.
With a superflu that is unstoppable, the only thing government can do is to deceive us into believing there is hope(drugs and such) like tamiflu that will somehow stop a mutating biological killer. The truth is, it will spread and become "The Plague" 2006.



posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by Wisdumb
Check out the company that makes tamiflu and who in the white house it links to.


Uh huh.




With a superflu that is unstoppable,


This is what grinds me. Scientists have been recommending prevention strategies forever! But they didn't get the support. And now, it's probably not preventable. But it was. So why didn't out governments do what needed to be done?





the only thing government can do is to deceive us into believing there is hope(drugs and such) like tamiflu that will somehow stop a mutating biological killer.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$





The truth is, it will spread and become "The Plague" 2006.


H5N1 bird flu has been spreading around the world since 1959 - and mutating all the way. I think there IS some hope that many of us have some degree of immunity.




[edit on 4-12-2005 by soficrow]



posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 03:58 AM
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How the media caught tamiflu

This is from the BMJ and is a salutary piece about the credentials of so called 'independent' experts.

(Not sure if the content at this link will remain free to air but is available now)

Systematic Review of Tamiflu

A systematic review of the use of Tamiflu in *normal* influenza. Note that even in normal influenza, there are resistant strain rates of 4% in adults and 18% in children. (NB Children are often quoted as the group most likely to be key transmitters in epidemics / pandemics)



posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 04:11 AM
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Originally posted by soficrow

Originally posted by Wisdumb
With a superflu that is unstoppable,


This is what grinds me. Scientists have been recommending prevention strategies forever! But they didn't get the support. And now, it's probably not preventable. But it was. So why didn't out governments do what needed to be done



the only thing government can do is to deceive us into believing there is hope(drugs and such) like tamiflu that will somehow stop a mutating biological killer.


If that isn't negligence, I don't know what is.

On a lighter, 'though macabre, note, didn't the Singaporeans just execute that doctor?

The news on Tamiflu has been out for a while, it isn't designed to combat Avian influenza strain H5N1, the governments are telling us that they hope scientists can use it as a starting point for the vaccine that will kill H5N1.

In any case, H5N1 will not be the super flu, but a new strain mutated from it, most probably a combination of birdflu and swine flu. H5N1 bird flu can, so far, only be transmitted human-to-human by contact with blood. Swine flue is a little different and therefore nastier. It just isn't as deadly.



posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 06:12 AM
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LET me state the obvious seen no one else has.

Dr. Nguyen Tuong Van is a fraud , i bet he downloaded his doctorate certificate from imafakedoctor.com and has no idea just like every doctor ive ever seen with a similar name.



"put that in yer pipe n smoke it"



posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 06:34 AM
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Bird Flu Hype infects Biotech

A connected piece to this topic...



posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 07:40 AM
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Originally posted by soficrow



Aw marg. I know you know.


So what's the latest on Rumsfeld and Gilead?


Did they got their profits yet?


I wonder when the law sue are going to start coming this way.



posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 09:18 AM
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Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

The news on Tamiflu has been out for a while, it isn't designed to combat Avian influenza strain H5N1, the governments are telling us that they hope scientists can use it as a starting point for the vaccine that will kill H5N1.



Odd, that info snippet. Tamiflu isn't even a vaccine - how could it be the 'starting point' for an H5N1 vaccine. Especially when there aleady are existent H5N1 vaccines?





In any case, H5N1 will not be the super flu, but a new strain mutated from it, most probably a combination of birdflu and swine flu. H5N1 bird flu can, so far, only be transmitted human-to-human by contact with blood. Swine flue is a little different and therefore nastier. It just isn't as deadly.


H5N1 does not require species specific genetic components. Other flus normally reassort with swine flu, but H5N1 does not need to go through that process.

Don't know where you get your info about blood - any references? My research shows that even feathers are considered a vector - and that the dominant route of transmission is respiratory.






posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by NumberCruncher

Dr. Nguyen Tuong Van is a fraud , i bet he downloaded his doctorate certificate from imafakedoctor.com and has no idea just like every doctor ive ever seen with a similar name.


Your references are supremely flawed - for one thing, Dr. Van is a woman, and she runs the intensive care unit. BTW - do you have any links?



Originally posted by hands
Bird Flu Hype infects Biotech

A connected piece to this topic...



The closing paragraph of the article you linked highlights the real crisis here - the bird flu pandemic is being (mis)handled as a potential "market" - not a looming public health crisis.



"Whether this is a real market is hard to know," said Ken Trbovich, an analyst with RBC Capital Markets. "There is potential, but it's like holding a lottery ticket right now."



marg - good question. Do you have any research on Gilead/Tamiflu stock values?

hands - great info.


...So Tamiflu isn't even that good for ordinary flu.




.

[edit on 5-12-2005 by soficrow]



posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 10:04 AM
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Well it seems that when the hipe of the bird flue pandemic their stocks went from 35 to 47 dollars.



Fears of a pandemic and the ensuing scramble for Tamiflu have sent Gilead's stock from $35 to $47. That's made the Pentagon chief, already one of the wealthiest members of the Bush cabinet, at least $1 million richer.


Obviously this is one of the biotech company that is so politically well-connected. Also the Federal government is one of the world’s biggest customers for Tamiflu.

Spending tax payer money in orders of 59 million dollars worth of it for the treatment of the troops around the world.

They are expecting sales this year to top 1 billion dollars.

Funny with the side effects our soldiers should think two times before getting the shots.

I see how well connected is our government when it comes to financially support their own political leaders that are in the corporate business.

I thought that's called Conflicts of Interest? Oh . . . I forgot not under the present administration.

money.cnn.com...

I guess when it comes to manufacturing pandemic in order to gain profits is all fair and square in our capitalistic economy.



posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 10:45 AM
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I have some beans that i grow, that can prevent .002 percent of bird flu infection if they are eaten 20 times a day, and are followed with lots of orange jiuce, and rest...

So who do I contact to sell my entire stock to the US government?
if used correctly, they could help a few people...

The price is very reasonable considering the potential benefit...

It was with no more foresight that everyone bought into the tamiflu "miracle"
it wasn't then, and it isn't now...
but Rumsfeld is rich... so maybe he will retire now. At least that would be one good thing.



posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 11:44 AM
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I wish this bird flu crap would just go the way of the dodo. What will it be next year? Bubonic avian SARSthrax? I think the people who are really making money of this are the ones selling lawn mowing masks to Asians.



posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 11:55 AM
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In answer to the previous comment:
the people making money are:
Rumsfeld (and everyone who gave him money)
the makers of Tamiflu
the growers of Star Anise (a limited production plant required for tamiflu)
the "little pollen mask" makers of course...
the many clinics/hospitals/doctors that will be giving numerous checks and tests for every sniffle...
and hopefully the makers of the mechanical aids required to keep flu victims alive, until they can fight off the infection, and return function to the debilitated organs. This is assuming that they are pumping up production... I dont think they are...

the money losers:
every "joe and Jane" out there...



posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 12:06 PM
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At this point it's a huge scam. The regular flu kills so many more people than any of these "potential" pandemic fad bugs. People are completely freaking out (or were anyway, it seems to be fading) over an illness that cannot even spread efficiently amongst humans and would require a very specific mutation to do so, and even IF that were to happen, many experts believe that would render it much less deadly. People are so funny with their emotive fears, worry about the human flu not Polly the parrot's flu. We should just try and avoid making out with birds til this thing blows over, no matter how much alcohol is consumed.



posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd

We should just try and avoid making out with birds til this thing blows over, no matter how much alcohol is consumed.




Seriously though, epidemic disease is a HUGE crisis in our world, and H5N1 bird flu IS real. I do think many of us may be immune or partially immune, simply because it has been floating around for 46 years.

I agree people are being manipulated - but I think it's a bit more subtle than just the usual profiteering. ...All the epidemic diseases - including bird flu - reflect an evolutionary crisis. The crisis could have been prevented, but prevention would impact profits. So nothing was done. Now we will pay the price. I don't think the price will be species extinction - but I do think all the epidemics, including the chronic disease epidemic, reflect the pain we will experience as we adapt and evolve to our new and uniquely contaminated world.


.





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