You're going to heaven?

What IS heaven, what IS hell? Why do we create extremes for our desires and doubts. One must find peace however they can.
It is weak to allow negative constructions of the mind to destroy your balance, as it is also weak to allow positive contructions as well-in extremes. Balance is temperment. Too much of a bad thing such as fear mongering is awful and oppressive as is too much of a good thing as it can make one obsessive. If there be a choice I choose heaven. If there not be a choice, then so be it. Case closed. Acceptance of thyself destroys imbalance Inner peace is based on equilibrium of emotions. Actions are logical reactions. Emotions incur decision making and inuitive guidance.
You have the right as free-willed entities to believe whatever you wish, so why not give others the smae respect? Communication of ideas is great, oppression of ideas is criminal-we all have feelings.

You say much, grasshopper, but mean little.

Seriously, what are you saying? You have a choice. Where do you get the word "Heaven"? I assume you are referring to the Heaven as described in the Bible? Well, what does the Bible say? Accept Christ, you choose Heaven. Simple. Your choice, you have to live with it, not anyone else. Nobody is telling you that you must choose Christ, nobody can make you choose Christ, and God will not force the choice upon you, elsewise we'd merely be robots. Understand there are consequences associated with all choices in life, no exception with that one.

So, what's your cryptic point?

To me, personally, both heaven and hell are states of mind. Then again, most things are with me.

Right on target Thomas. Heaven is being in the presence of God; Hell is being separated from God. To get to Heaven, accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your savior; otherwise, go to Hell (and if you pass Go, you do not collect $200). It is as simple as that. Why do people make it so complicated? Believe in Jesus as your savior and God will accept you. Also don't anybody here go posting about "What about those people who never heard of Jesus". Well God has a plan for those people, but no one at this Forum can make that claim.

Thank you for sharing. I like honesty.

[Edited on 24-9-2003 by Lucifer]

I think what Lucifer may be eluding to, if I may be so presumtuous, is the belief of a God or entity that is beyond the definition and confines of a book...be it the Koran, Talmud, Bible, etc.
(Note: I may be wrong in presuming thusly on Lucifer...if so, my apologies.)

Would there be a 'Heaven' or 'Hell' then? Would "they" be applicable? When the words or terms 'Heaven' or 'Hell' are used, they are always, always used in conjunction with Christian understanding and based on the biblical writings of many authors.

Why is it difficult to look at God as not being confined and thus defined by books.....?

Just some thoughts.

regards
seekerof

[Edited on 24-9-2003 by Seekerof]

Also don't anybody here go posting about "What about those people who never heard of Jesus".

What an interesting statement as we discussed in the past to "Know" Jesus is an issue subject to interpretation.

Something no one with exception of God probably has the answer for (And who would claim otherwise?)

Personally casting the fist stone does not for me represent Christian behavior.

As far as the membership of the board I see no reason to make any interpretation as to, if they are going to hell or not. Such a statement could be confused as a personal attack (been there in respect to responses in this site).

TC, have heard that applications are still being accepted in the Happy Hunting ground and as far as the Buddhist well, they seem to aways say see you later.


Any thoughts?


[Edited on 24-9-2003 by Toltec]

Yes, Lucifer, I have received your u2u, ensuring I know your response, babbling about Einstein and Smith was directed at me. Might anyone else in the room tell me how I illicited that response?

Earth to Lucifer, come in, Lucifer. Believe what you want, who's stopping you.

As Leary would say, "Shut the fark up, NEXT!!"
...and you do need Dennis Leary- style counseling.

Or is it that you are trying to make others believe how you do, that those who disagree with your perception are wrong? Seeing how we aren't bringing up the issue, but you are, that'd indicate to me that this is the case. Unless you are residing in an Islamic state and are either having to accept Islam or get your head whacked off, I don't see your argument.
Go, in blissful ignorance, right back at you, pal.

quote from Lucifer
I am not offended by your ignorance rather I pity the narrow-minded

Please explain and clarify this statement.

Reply to Toltec:
Whenever one of these threads start, you almost get a posting from someone on the order of "What about those poor people who have never heard of Jesus? Are they going to Hell?" Normally it comes from atheists and is truly not an honest question. When one see such postings, you get the impression that this person is prepping a defense for the White Throne Judgement.

Jagd as we have recently presented, clearly Atheism is a faith as much as an atheist may try to state otherwise still a faith. As a result they have every right to come to religious and spiritualism board and argue their point.

As we have discussed to deny the existence of God per say, does not in and of itself negate entry into heaven.


Any thoughts?

Quote from Toltec
Jagd as we have recently presented, clearly Atheism is a faith as much as an atheist may try to state otherwise still a faith. As a result they have every right to come to religious and spiritualism board and argue their point.

As we have discussed to deny the existence of God per say, does not in and of itself negate entry into heaven.

Point 1 - I never denied that atheism is some form of faith.
Point 2 - I never denied atheist's right to make postings in this forum area.
Point 3 - I made the point some of their arguments do grow tiresome because they be presented many time before.
Point 4 - To deny Jesus Christ as your Savior with full knowledge of His existence and the claims of Christ is indeed a one way ticket to Hell (i.e., denial of the existence of God).

Who am I, what is my belief or faith, what interests me, what is my connection to God, what is my capacity to hate or love, what is my lifestyle entail, do I sin or not? What's with judgement?

[Edited on 24-9-2003 by Lucifer]

You know..... When we die, we will find out. But I have a felling that if we meet Jesus he'll tell us that he's not our saviour but our brother. But that's just me.

If I was to guess I would say I'm in Hell looking for my way to Heaven. But I take a different definition of each. Going deeper, and more acurate to myself, I am in Heaven and Hell simultaneously at this very moment.

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

www.gnosis.org...

EDIT: A lyric always comes to mind on this subject. Pink Floyd: "Do you think you can tell, Heaven from Hell..."

[Edited on 24-9-2003 by uIVIa]

[Edited on 24-9-2003 by uIVIa]

If heaven is like the christian heaven where the requirement of having Jesus as your lord and savior is the key to getting in, I'll be going to hell.

If heaven's requirement is to be a good and decent person to those around you, then I will be going to heaven.

At least if such a thing exists.

Quote from Lucifer
Re: Heaven

Hey just wondering in my babbling moment of clarity if Jagdflier or any other who has an insecurity complex, (why else would one use insult to gain support, unless to feel betterr inside?) answer
this: Who am I, what is my belief or faith, what interests me, what is my connection to God, what is my capacity to hate or love, what is my lifestyle entail, do I sin or not, what extent of knowledge do I posses, how many seyences have I mastery of, what is my favorite color, am i celibate gay or straight, do i care about you or not, do I ever on ATS offer insult on any forum, have I ever proffered an untruth(empirically-spelling err for type speed withstanding), i could go on....

I know the same about everyone else, so, I offer what I do as insight as I have done nothing but attempt to follow the Way my whole life. I do not have to nor feel compeeled to CLARIFY your
misjudgement, but I like people as a natural rule. I appreciate the intensity that sloppy insults bring and mock your own disposition.
I will not swear or rant while attempting to understand that which I obviously cannot. Jagdflier, shall we all look at your posts and accumulate a quotient of insults, rude behavior and messy knowledge? I can if you like or continue to attack that which doesn't wish to fight a final solution to this:

Shall I find all of your posts and post all of the animosity and belittlement you have ever offered on a site that denies ignorance? For you see I have nothing but time as I live to learn and am obligated by situation to respond with a lesson. I will not post my results openly as I need no support in this matter, but a u2u list might help. I will never ask for moderato assistance but you really hurt the feelings of a righteous man trying to share his truth. Knowledge is ignorant when destroyed by opinion. I am not mean spirited, but I can play fair and clean if you like syntax battles

Okay find them!

Seriously, what are you saying? You have a choice. Where do you get the word "Heaven"? I assume you are referring to the Heaven as described in the Bible? Well, what does the Bible say? Accept Christ, you choose Heaven. Simple. Your choice, you have to live with it, not anyone else. Nobody is telling you that you must choose Christ, nobody can make you choose Christ, and God will not force the choice upon you, elsewise we'd merely be robots. Understand there are consequences associated with all choices in life, no exception with that one.

So, what's your cryptic point? (Quote from another)

Faith is special, personal and should be treated with respect. It is not a contest. I was trying to share my heartfelt understanding of
human nature to make a point. If a person is secure with their faith, why argue overr who is right, who isn't when no one knows for absolution, or else why would they question it and themselves? Personalization of faith is a special things too, but a Christian loves Jesus like a Jew loves God, not to mention that there are Muslims, Bhuddists, Sikhs, Hindus, etc. Everyone BELIEVES in their faith but it has been an instrument of fear and a weapon at times to divide PEOPLE alike. I have faith but I do not share it as a reference article as it cannot be a topical issue. Why
do I need to persuade or be persuaded in this issue. I believe what I do, period.

[Edited on 24-9-2003 by Lucifer]

[Edited on 24-9-2003 by Lucifer]

[Edited on 24-9-2003 by Lucifer]

Lucifer,
I am still waiting for the insulting comments I have made of which you allege. Truthfully you are not really making very much sense.

You know what is interesting about all these discussions. They always end the same way. One third of people don't believe because they don't feel it, one third are not sure but they think something is 'rumbling inside them, and the last third feel and know.

I don't think anymore this has to do with any talkin' or provin' or justifyin' it's about having soul, you have it or you don't or you gave yours over to one side or the other.

I have had so many discussions with people that do not like the labels 'good and evil' and all their manifest forms. I am not god so I am not in a place to judge but I am sure that if you want to sit at the right hand side of the man' there is a selected path to take. If you don't want to do that fine by me. But don't cry for help from the forests if you get lost in there.

I would insult my own intellect if I continued to allow you thought time. I will pursue knowledge elsewhere. Believe in what you want. I am. I find the digression from the original post laughable.
Be proud you helped me illustrate quite a point about human nature, and no I wouldn't waste time like that on such foolish things.