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Is There Anyone Out There Who's Really Offended by Christmas Trees?

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posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 04:26 PM
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You'd have to be blind not to see them all over this time of year. Yet there are those who claim to be offended by what Christmas Trees symbolize. I'm curious if those people are truly, deeply offended or are they just trying to make a point about Christianity dominating everything this time of year. Is it horrible going to the mall and seeing the Christmas decorations? Is it painful even to go shopping lest you spy some Christmas cookies being sold on the shelves? It is all around us this time of year but are those that don't celebrate Christmas really and truly offended by the displays? Or do they understand their meaning? I'm curious.

[edit on 5-12-2005 by John bull 1]




posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by jupiter869
Yet there are those who claim to be offended by what Christmas Trees symbolize. I'm curious if those people are truly, deeply offended or are they just trying to make a point about Christianity dominating everything this time of year.


What's so "Christian" about a Christmas tree? I see a corporate symbol, and I see a pagan symbol, but I guess I missed the chapter and verse that discusses the "Christmas tree." Perhaps it's in the "Book of Grandpa," but I even doubt that.


As for domination... I would defer to the Indianapolis Colts... They are dominating everything this year (as is USC).


Football Monkeys, not just for... Well, you know... Anymore...



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 05:28 PM
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I have a Christmas tree phobia. Here's why:

Years ago, back when I drove trucks, I had to go to Michigan to pick up a load of trees. Of course, the farmer made money per tree, wanted every tree in the 48' trailer we could possibly load, and we were more than happy to help the guy.
The problem began when the top of the trailer doors would not close. I crawled on top of the trailer with a hammer and beat the dorrs shut while a hand on the ground shut the latches until the doors latched shut. Mission accomplished - almost. Have you ever tried to get off the top off a 48' semi trailer in arctic-feezing temps with ice on everything?

Eventually, the farm owner found a long board, which she and a farm hand propped at an angle from the door of the trailer. I jumped from the top onto the board and skiid down it to the ground. Had this been filmed, a disclaimer would have been necessary to insure that nobody tried the stunt at home. We all know that nobody disregards those disclaimers.

Anyway, ever since that incident, my phobia causes me to loose all continence when I see a Christmas tree. It is an horrible thing.
Kidding about the phobia, although the tree farm incident is true.

When I got to the Farmers market, I delivered the load of trees to the husband of the tree-farm team. Before leaving, the wife had given me a conspiracy book to read that indicated that Christmas is a bad thing as it is pagan and all that stuff. I asked the husband if he agreed, which he said yes. He also said he was a Christian. When I asked him how he could sell Christmas trees in light of this, he sputtered and stuttered like an outboard motor with water in the gas tank.

If you'll excuse me, I gotta go and dig out my Carpenter's Christmas album.



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 05:33 PM
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Practically all people who say they're offended are atheists who view this as only one small battle in their war against religious freedom and traditional society.



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 05:44 PM
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I suppose the trees themselves are fine but I do get offended by the people who sell the trees. Every year, without fail, burly lumberjack types set up camp on the streets of the city. They take up damn near the whole block, building elaborate stands complete with heated encampment.

I went out to the store to get lunch today, as soon as I stepped out I heard a stream of curses pouring from the far corner. Nothing new. As I walked closer I noticed they were now into the intimidation phase of the urban combat ritual. This phase consists of trading increasingly vulgar threats while dancing around almost chicken like, each one trying to look tougher than the other.

As I found myself across the street from the scene I noticed one of the participants was a regular bum, he's an alright guy I suppose but he's tall, at least 6' 5". His opponent was none other than the christmas tree seller, the utter epitome of the term "ex con", who happened to be about 5' 5". I decided to wait for the walk sign to change and listened in.

Expletives spat like static from the radio that was Columbus Ave. The light changed and I stepped into the street. It was then that I realized what they were fighting about. They were fighting for dominance of the corner, you can't sell any crhistmas trees with someone asking your customers for their change. However, that corner just happens to be home to a Korean grocery store that has a produce area in front, covered by a clear plastic like tent attached to the awning. All in all this leaves about 4 feet left on that sidewalk.

The two of them were fighting right at the entrance to this bottleneck. I suppose their fight might have progressed to somthing interesting if it weren't for the 30 people a minute trying to enter and exit the wooded trail.
I almost felt as if I should get involved, I've lived here for 20 years!

This year I'm having an anti-chrimstmas. I'm going to wear a black santa claus hat, I'm spray painting my tree black and I'm leaving the price tag on all the presents. Hell, i'm even going to work on Christmas Eve.



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 05:56 PM
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Im not having a christmas tree this year either. Im going to draw the curtains and sit in my apt drunk and blame life



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by jupiter869
I'm curious if those people are truly, deeply offended or are they just trying to make a point about Christianity dominating everything this time of year.


Christmas was originally a pagan festival and was celebrated in Europe long before we had even heard of Jesus, I believe.

I think it was celebration of Winter Solstice if I remember correctly. To be honest though I think that Christmas has lost a lot of it's original Pagan traditions and more recent Christian traditions to commercialism.

I was always brought up to Christmas in the Christian context, but as I do not follow a particular religon (is there a name for that? - I'm not an athiest though) I find it sad that it seems to be losing all of this for corporate money grabbing.



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 06:15 PM
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I was number 20410 to vote in a USA Today poll that asked if I had trimmed
“Christmas” from my tree. Three percent of voting people had done just
that preferring to call their tree a Holiday Tree. The poll was spawned
after the Boston city Parks and Recreation Department ignited a furor when
it advertised the lighting of a "Holiday Tree.” Many view the debacle as
religious censorship and political correctness run amok. What’s next,
calling a menorah a candlestick?

Most will agree that the commercialization of Christmas has done plenty to
water down, assail, obscure, deflect, hurt, and almost erase the meaning
behind the holiday. I count myself among them. But to target the Christmas
Tree as a politically incorrect holiday trapping? I’m telling Santa!

Lowe’s, a store in Austin, Texas, featured a banner that referred in
English to "Holiday Trees" but in Spanish read "Christmas Trees." The
American Family Association says its supporters contacted Lowe's to
express their displeasure. "Since they can't take Christ out of Christmas,
many national retailers are trying to simply do away with Christmas." said
AFA President Tim Wildmon. Lowe’s responded in a statement: "To ensure
consistency of our message and to avoid confusion among our customers, we
are now referring to the trees only, as 'Christmas Trees.' We have also
removed a banner that read 'Holiday Trees' from the front of our stores."

For millions of Christians the story of Christmas in the Bible is among
the most beloved, and is one of their foundations of faith – that God came
to dwell as a man and offer eternal life to mankind. It is both simple
enough to be understood by young children, and has majestic meaning to
provide adults with inspiration and awe. (Luke 2:8-14)

Of course, the Christmas tree and Santa Claus have been added to the
holiday mix along the way. With the extremes on Christmas observance
ranging from total holiday indulgence to complete abstention, there are
plenty of people who seek middle ground. Pastor Richard Bucher of the
Trinity Lutheran Church in Clinton, Mass., is one of them, asserting
celebrating Christmas is not pagan. "It's laudable that certain Christians
care so much about pleasing God to ask the question if it's right, but a
lot of arguments they're making are just not sound. They end up placing
guilt on Christians celebrating Christmas and do a real disservice." On
his church website Bucher addresses examples such as the tree decorated
with silver and gold in Jeremiah's 10th chapter, and explains upon close
examination, it does not refer to anything like a Christmas tree. "The
very next verse, 10:5, goes on to say, 'Like a scarecrow in a melon patch,
their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk.
Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good.' This
passage and the passages that follow make it crystal clear that the
'decorated tree' that Jeremiah was talking about in 10:3-4, was a tree
that was cut down and made into an idol, a very common custom in the
ancient world."

He continues: “Just because heathens took something God has created for
good," he asks, "does that mean such things are off limits [to Christians]
permanently?" He says many have invented sin where God has not said that
something is sinful, and adds the issue boils down to what exactly is
meant by "Christmas." Finally he asks, “Is it thanking God for the birth
of the Savior, or everything that people do associated with it? People
just lump everything together."



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 06:36 PM
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Christmas tree debates?
Argueably the most irrelevant topic on this forum.

Supports the ironic "Christianity Under Fire" spin that the media is developing right now.

Ironically, Christianity's greates threat are it's masses of hypocrites who categorically stand against Yeshua's message and attitudes. The vengeful, bloodthirsty, uber - judgemental "christians" that destroy a pure and great thing like the message of Jesus.

Christmas Trees / Shmistmas Trees!

PS - I'm offended that materialism has surpassed all else - Christmas wise. Screw a tree. Screw Presents.



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 06:36 PM
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I am not offended by a religions or religious symbols in and of themselves generally speaking, least of all with something as benign as a pine tree.

I recognize Christmas decorations for what they are: good marketing. A certain segment of the population has been convinced that it's important to make a show of your religious beliefs around this time of year, yet subtly convinced to do it in a very self-gratifying way. So up go the extravagant displays of lights, props, trees, etc etc etc, and an entire month spent in preparation for and anticipation of a massive exchange of consumer goods that the average consumer probably would not invest in for themselves. It's stupid, but it's fair. Aside from my belief that it would be more appropriate to Christian beliefs to give gifts to those who could not possibly offer you one in exchange, and that such gifts should probably be hard-to get necessities of life rather than cheap luxuries, I don't have a lot of criticism to offer.

Of course, when you get into the bigger picture of Christmas, and from that Christianity itself, I suppose I have a few gripes.

You don't see much carroling in my area, which I appreciate, because I do not want people outside of my home singing songs to me about a 1st century political rabble-rouser who somehow became recognized by many Westerners as God incarnate.

I don't appreciate that this holliday comes equipped with religiously themed cartoons geared towards evangelism of children. It isn't fair to expose a child to something so heavy before they have reached the age of reason. I don't have a problem with ministering to those who consent, I don't have a problem with the proliferation of religious beliefs, and I don't have a problem with a child being raised as his parents see fit because imperfect as this system may be, it at least provides a child with the guidance of an adult who is chiefly conerned with the child's interests. What I do have a problem with is that outsiders who are not familiar with a child's life nor primarily responsible for or necessarily interested in the wellbeing of a child use this holliday which is such a big deal to children as a chance to dress up religious parables as cartoons- particularly where a Christian Saint is involved and can have his story taught in schools.

Yeah, I know, I'm insecure because I know I'm going to hell, I'm a corrupter of youth, and I should be burned at the stake immediately. I hear it so much that it's lost all meaning.



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 06:58 PM
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Please no one be offended---

We call our little christmas tree a hannukka bush (please excuse spelling) .
My partner is of Jewish decent, I am of Christian decent with pagan leanings. Our tree is fully decorated and under 2 feet tall, when we want to set it up we pull it out of the box straighten the top upright and plug it in. To put it away we unplug it's lights, bend the top down to fit it into the box and close the box. Because we have pets, no tinsel is allowed in our house--seeing it come out of the back end of a cat is just no fun... for the cat at least.

The name was meant to be inclusive of the season, and recognize that our little artificial tree has to look up to Charlie Brown's tree.

Just wanted to wish everyone Joys of the Season.



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 07:28 PM
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I am 'bothered' by the christmas tree thing--but not necessarily 'offended' since I gave that up some time back. My being 'bothered' has absolutely nothing to do with what I think christmas is about or what subservsive agenda it might ignorantly be serving--and isn't even about what 'christmas means to me.' It's totally about the trees.

Several years ago it started to creep in on me, at first a niggling feeling of guilt, perhaps better termed 'conscience,' whatever--seeing amputated trees really began to cause a sore spot in my daily experiences this time of year.

I mean, tradition and what-not aside--why take the life of any living thing (even a botanical life, yes) on purpose for no truly relevant reason? I know more trees grow--and I know many if not most trees used in this manner are specifically grown for the purpose of dying--something very close to the beef industry, IMHO. I guess at least with bovine farming, the end result is nourishment and they do get to play their intended part in the food-chain, albeit in a extremely less-than-natural fashion. But what of the discarded trees, lying spent and forgotten at the dumpsters in early January?
Most end the aborted noble potential of their brief lives among household refuse in the local landfill! Around my parts, there is the Pecos River running through town, and so one has the choice of donating their tree to the aquatic ecosystem--specifically to provide shelter for the New Mexican fishies. That's better than the dump, but still....

As far as artificial trees go, that's a whole other 'botheration' for me. My mom, whom I live with, has outlived 3 husbands. They all three died right around christmas time--with one being a truly tragic situation--her first husband was suddenly killed in a car accident going to or from work on December 21, and was buried on christmas eve. My mom was 36 and had 4 kids and this basically ruined christmas for her from then on. Her way to cope was not to forgo christmas (not a choice with the kids, of course, the following years) but instead to 'force' herself to have christmas (her word, not mine) and so in all these years since (she's now 80), she's duly trussed out a tree (artificial) and decked the halls accordingly. And hated every minute of it, I know.

These last few years I've been back home, I dread the days of early December and her inevitable request to 'get the tree down' from its storage spot. But I dutifully do my duty just the same as she did hers.

But, wonder of wonder, this year she decided, of her own volition, to forgo the tree in favor of just the little foot high ceramic lighted version she made years ago--and I sighed a hearty sigh of relief and expressed my gratitude. I had started to get almost depressed (but not quite) by seeing that tree, up for not much purpose, only to cause more work for her before and after christmas, with little reward in the way of cheer. She found internal cheer this thanksgiving, somehow, and so we've both been released from the yule bondage and should have quite the merry holiday season!



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 07:38 PM
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Part of living in a "free" society is learning how to be offended every day and still carry on with one's own business despite of upsets. I'm not offended by people who may condemn any religion that is "Christian" which is no different than condemning every religion that is "Non-Christian". Lumping Mormons and Baptists and Catholics together is like lumping Satanists, Muslims, and Jews together. And we've all got our fundamentalists.

Merry Christmas because that's the holiday I observe. People need to learn to accept a wish of wellness from different religious cultures other than their own. The kindness of thought is what matters. If I was starving and also a vegetarian, I wouldn't turn my nose up at somone who offered me a corned-beef sandwich out of kindness. I'd thank them and eat the bread and share the beef.



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 10:08 PM
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I'm not too sure this thread belongs in this forum - I don't see any conspiracy angle but, that's not my call.

I'm not Christian and neither are Christmas trees, Xmas trees, Hannukah bushes (which aren't Jewish either), Holiday trees, whatever. In fact, anyway anybody wants to celebrate their religious holiday with their own money and on their own property is fine and dandy with me! I wouldn't even care if my neighbors all had a Satan tree - it doesn't affect me one way or another.

I think it's probably not a great idea for any government agency to spend money on holiday decorations of any kind - not even for the Fourth of July but, I'm not upset about it enough to launch a crusade against it.

I mean, I've seen Christian households with "Nativity Scenes" that included Santa bowing down to the baby Jesus in the manger! I'm still laughing about that!


Our local Christmas parade featured a float by some extreme Christian group that had a huge Christmas present box that opened up to reveal a real guy dressed up like the crucified Jesus - complete with blood and gore! It scared little children so badly that I'm pretty sure that none of them are likely to ever want to have anything to do with such a church. That's called "hurting your cause". We all called that float the "Carrie-Jesus" float - you remember that horor movie? It was like that.

Anyway, I think everybody already knows that the legend of the birth of Jesus and, especially the story from the Gospel of Matthew, is laughably inaccurate and historically impossible.

Beyond that, it's really an important economic engine for retailers of largely useless crap that would never sell otherwise.

Happy Pagan Ritual, Everyone!



posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 01:14 AM
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yeah i dont get what the whole uproar is for christmas trees. i see all these christians on TV complaining that there is an assault on Christianity. Being a christian myself i agree that there is a bias against christianity but as for the whole christmas tree thing...christmas isnt about christmas trees...at least not where christianity is concerned. Santa clause and Christmas trees are secular...so why people say that its christian is beyond me. my family puts up a christmas tree because its a traditional thing but for the meaning of christmas to us is about christ.....for other people it means something completely different.

So the only thing i dont understand is why people think that because some people are offended by christmas trees that they are attacking christianity?
i think there are better examples of "attacks" than this.

Kind Regards,
DigitalGrl



posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 01:39 AM
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Christmas as a whole offends me. The worship of some Idol by the bovine hordes really messes with my winter.



posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 05:59 AM
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The Christmas tree is just another pagan tradition coexisting with Christianity. The Bible actually never mentions 25 of December as the day of the birth of Jesus; it was eons later that Christian leaders took that decision. The Christmas tree comes as a tradition from Northern Europe.

How many pagan traditions must a religion bear in order to prove it false?



posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 07:00 AM
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Is There Anyone Out There Who's REALLY Offended by Christmas Trees?

I( Non-Christian) am not at all offended by Christmas trees.

BTW: In my opinion when mixing religious things (like a "hanukka-bush") , at the end of the day the result is indefinable and nothing from both religions/cultures is left over.



posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 07:23 AM
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Decorating an evergreen tree during the winter solstice is a fine tradition. I can't understand why anyone would object to it at all.

The pine tree is a symbol of transcending the period of time when the sun appears to die and be reborn. I understand why Christians call it a Christmas tree and I have no problem with that, but can also see how it is a powerful symbol for non-Christians.

If there was only one symbol that can tie all the warring religions together, it is the decorating of a tree during this time of the year. Giving presents is dang nice too.




posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by jupiter869
Is There Anyone Out There Who's REALLY Offended by Christmas Trees?


I've read this whole thread and I see mighty few who are even slightly offended by Christmas trees. I think they're pretty and I'm not at all offended by them.

Some people don't celebrate Christmas as a "Christian holiday", but do celebrate a winter holiday by decking the tree, buying presents and getting together with their families.

I submit that the problem comes in when secular people want to call the tree a 'holiday tree', it's the Christians who get offended!


So, I don't think anyone is offended by the tree...
(not many for religious reasons, anyway) it's simply that some want to call it something else that's more fitting to them.

Some people say 'trousers', some say 'pants', others say 'slacks', some call them all 'jeans'... But let me assure you, if the Christians (or any other group) were calling them Jesus Pants or Allah Drawers, I would find something else to call them because I use them too and I am not a follower of Jesus or Allah. It's as simple as that. I'm not offended by Jesus or Allah or the pants that some associate with them, the name just doesn't apply to me and I use them, too.

So I do hope that the Christians who are offended by others' choice of nomenclature can... well... get over it.
Call it a Christmas Tree, put Jesus all over it, pray to it, we don't care, but we'll make our choices about that behavior. Ok?



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