Ringling Bros infiltration of PETA, page 1

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Ringling Bros infiltration of PETA

Topic started on 2-12-2005 @ 09:16 PM by loam
RINGLING BROTHERS’ SPY LIABLE FOR THEFT, CONSPIRACY AGAINST PETA In a major break in PETA’s lawsuits against Kenneth Feld, the CEO and president of Feld Entertainment, Inc., the parent company of Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus, and coconspirators, the Circuit Court of Fairfax County (Virginia) has entered a judgment against Steven Kendall, a top Feld operative. The lawsuits filed by PETA seek to uncover the depth and details of Feld’s alleged long-running conspiracy—codirected by former CIA Covert Operations Director Clair George—to infiltrate PETA in an attempt to halt opposition to Ringling’s abusive elephant training methods, use of the metal bullhook, separation of mother elephants from their babies, and other acts of cruelty to animals used by the circus. Kendall, of Pittsburgh, has admitted in public documents to PETA’s allegations against both himself and Feld, including theft and an extensive conspiracy to discredit the animal rights group. As a result of the judgment, Kendall is deemed to have admitted the following: * Feld operatives were aided in the conspiracy by George, who was paid several million dollars for his services to the circus. * Kendall stole a PETA computer and its files. Feld operatives also stole information and confidential documents from PETA, including a list of nationwide contacts, in order to interfere with protests against the circus’s physical abuse and chronic mistreatment of elephants, tigers, and other animals. * Kendall and circus operatives used illegal means—including extortion, burglaries, theft, and surveillance—to accomplish their tasks. * Kendall has attempted to blackmail Feld in exchange for his silence about his illegal activities by demanding that Feld pay him $6 million. (Kendall’s letter to Feld is available upon request.) First, let me say that I am neither a fan of PETA nor Ringling Bros. There is a part of me that feels like the courts settled a dispute between what I generally consider two wrongdoers.... Nonetheless, I do find the infiltration tactic fascinating. I think this happens far more often than people realize. (And BTW, just look at that picture... In my view, that is pretty offensive and makes me sad. ) [edit on 2-12-2005 by loam]
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reply posted on 2-12-2005 @ 10:21 PM by Rasputin13
I agree 100% with you. While I feel that PETA is often too extreme, and I don't agree with a lot of their beliefs and a lot of the statements and actions they've made in the past, I feel that their hearts are in the right place- however misguided they may be. I think its sickening what some of these circuses do to their animals. I also feel that its completely unnecessary. I've been to the circus before when I was young. I didn't go because there was going to be elephants and lions and tigers and bears there... I went because it was the circus. What I'm saying is that I don't feel the circus needs to have elephants and other animals as part of their act, especially when it requires the infliction of pain, them being caged, etc. The circus would do just fine, and could count on my business, if they simply stuck to clowns, midgets, and fire-breathing sword-swallowers. As an animal lover, hearing about the abuse, mistreatment and exploitation of animals makes me extremely angry. I certainly hope that when those who committ such acts ultimately meet their maker that they suffer the consequences for their unnecessary actions. You have voted loam for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.
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reply posted on 2-12-2005 @ 10:55 PM by GradyPhilpott
If that picture makes you feel sad, I'd sure hate to be you. Isn't that what people go to the circus to see? I wouldn't claim that there are not abuses in circuses, but PETAs reputation makes them the least reliable source of information on the planet and I think circus animals live better lives than their cousins in the wild.
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reply posted on 2-12-2005 @ 11:32 PM by loam
Originally posted by GradyPhilpott If that picture makes you feel sad, I'd sure hate to be you. Based on that statement, let's say the feelings must be mutual. Originally posted by GradyPhilpott Isn't that what people go to the circus to see? The point is? People see cock & dog fights...pay for sex with children....and find many depraved forms of entertainment.... That makes it right? Originally posted by GradyPhilpott I wouldn't claim that there are not abuses in circuses, but PETAs reputation makes them the least reliable source of information on the planet As I have already stated, I do not agree with much of PETA's over the top positions....but that does not negate the fact that they have brought to light much that is simply wrong. As a matter of fact, I am fairly anti-PETA, largely because, as your response demonstrates, too many are prepared to easily discard the realities of animal cruelty because over-the-top PETA is the messenger. I am in favor of livestock production- when done in the right way. I am in favor of hunting and fishing- when it does not involve endangered species and is not done in wasteful excess. I am even barely in favor of certain animal testing- but not for B.S. discretionary reasons like cosmetics or detergents or mere curiosity....And, I certainly think that when it is done, we have a responsibility to do it in a manner that demonstrates respect for the living thing we are using for such purposes..... However, I am NOT in favor of this: (a message brought by PETA) WARNING GRAPHIC China Dog and Cat Fur Farm Investigation or this: (another message brought by PETA) WARNING GRAPHIC Covance Testing Lab Busted PETA exposes much that is wrong about our treatment of animals. The fact that they are so ridiculously extreme on many other issues, does NOT confuse for me that sometimes they happen to be right! Originally posted by GradyPhilpott and I think circus animals live better lives than their cousins in the wild. You have got to be kidding! [edit on 2-12-2005 by loam]
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reply posted on 3-12-2005 @ 01:24 AM by GradyPhilpott
Originally posted by loam The point is? People see cock & dog fights...pay for sex with children....and find many depraved forms of entertainment.... That makes it right? An elephant sitting on a stool with a hot chick has a moral equivalence with having sex with children? I've seen cock fighting and it's a pretty grisly activity where the chickens are made fighting mad by the infliction of pain and then let loose to fight to the death. I'm just not seeing any equivalence to an elephant sitting on a stool. Circuses can be humane and PETA sucks. That's my only point.
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reply posted on 3-12-2005 @ 01:31 AM by loam
Originally posted by GradyPhilpott An elephant sitting on a stool with a hot chick has a moral equivalence with having sex with children? I hardly think I was that obtuse.... The degree of wrongness does not change the fact that it is still wrong. I think believing that elephant happier than its free range brethren simply ridiculous. And for what purpose? Our entertainment.... sick! Originally posted by GradyPhilpott I've seen cock fighting and it's a pretty grisly activity where the chickens are made fighting mad by the infliction of pain and then let loose to fight to the death. I'm glad to hear you object. Originally posted by GradyPhilpott Circuses can be humane and PETA sucks. That's my only point. And mine is that they both suck.
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reply posted on 3-12-2005 @ 07:11 AM by ANOK
Originally posted by GradyPhilpott I think circus animals live better lives than their cousins in the wild. What? You mean like a person in jail lives a better life than his cousins in the 'wild'? Or like a person forced to humiliate themselves everyday in order to get food, lives better than a free person? Hmmmmm, it appears the systems attempt to convince people that their slavery is freedom, and we are safer when we are controlled, is working very well... Maybe you should ask the elephant if it's happy to have been ripped from it's natural habitat and forced to work unnaturaly, while strange humans stare and laugh. You might think it's just an elephant, what's the big deal right? Jeez Humans! news.nationalgeographic.com... www.angelfire.com... members.tripod.com... www.aspca.org.../ [edit on 3/12/2005 by ANOK]
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reply posted on 3-12-2005 @ 08:19 AM by Rasputin13
As if the elephant sitting on the stool with a hot chick on its back is an example of its overall treatment. Give me a break! Obviously they're not going to zap it with a cattle prong or stuff it in a cage barely able to fit the animal in front of paying customers. When the marks are around, the circus crew acts as though these animals are treated like royalty. Often, what goes on behind the scenes and as part of their training is deplorable at best. Elephants, for example, have excellent memory and fascinating social traits. I believe they are the only other mammal besides humans who visit the gravesites of their deceased relatives on a regular basis. Now imagine how they feel when out of nowhere comes a Jeep full of Africans with guns and tranquilizers hell-bent on bringing them down and separating them from their loved ones and the rest of their herd. Then they're likely stuffed in a small cage and shipped in poor conditions to the United States, where their circus owners beat and zap them into submission. But yeah, I'm sure sitting down on a stool in front of a few thousand people with a hot woman on their backs is really every elephant's fantasy....
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reply posted on 4-12-2005 @ 07:55 PM by jenkwater
PETA is totally extreme, but obviously so are business interests looking to discredit such organizations. The fact that this spying has come to light it really makes one wonder if PETA has moles and how much of what people don't like about PETA was directly or indirectly because of such covert actions. And as far as those video links go, I am 100% disgusted to be a human being.
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