There is only one kind of "football".........American football!!

Originally posted by Bandar Paul
Sorry to get personal on this thread as I've done that before but I dont understand your last sentence?

Are you saying that being born in the U.S. makes you inherintly better at sport? Is it in the water in the U.S.? A sport called FOOTBALL is played throughout the world by our beloved Planet EARTH. A sport called football is played throughout North America but... A college draft pick would be superior to the rest of the world?

Just want to know what this manifest destiny is? How do we (Americans) do it? Not trying to be personal, trying to understand.
Thanks

It's real simple.

There has never, in the history of soccer, been an athlete - be he American, European, or Asian - that has ever had the raw God (or genetic if you aren't religious) given talent as this guy has.

You simply can not find an athlete like this in all of soccer. A guy who is 6 feet, four inches tall, who is 250+ pounds of muscle, with a 40+ inch vertical jump and an unreal 4.32 forty yard dash.

Go ahead - try it. Sure there might be a few guys who are 6'4" in soccer. Hell, I'm sure a lot of the top teams strikers can run a 4.3 40. But NONE of them combine it all, especially with that much bulk. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with nationality. I can point out a guy named Nene from brazil who plays in the NBA (on the Denver Nuggets) - he's a better athlete then any soccer player in the world.

Soccer is a sport which requires a unique blend of cardio endurance, speed, and footwork. That said, the level of pure athlete that plays soccer is simply not on the level of a guy who plays in the NFL, much less NBA.

Just go ahead and look up the NFL combine results. Look up a guy like Manny Lawson. This is a guy who is rated between the 20th and 40th best prospect this year. He is 6'5", 255 pounds, has a 39 inch vertical jump, and runs a 4.4 forty. Think about all of those abilities individually. Then combine them into one player... This is what you get:




For reference, the "hoop" is 10 feet tall. That's where this guys head is. Ohhhh yeah, that is a vertical jump - no running start.

The point is, it takes more athleticism to play football then soccer. If you invented 10 new sports that niether athletes had played before, then took the best athletes from each sport to make a team, the football players would win at least 9, and probably all 10 of them.

Yes.....................


But is it fun?

Originally posted by Beachcoma

Originally posted by buckaroo
I love America!
steamboat willy toot toot , Betty boop what a dish , betty grable great gams,oh say can you see, oh say can you see dah dah dah dah da dah

Oh man, what movie was that from again?

Saving private ryan, when they take the machine gun nest and have the german guy dig the graves. I think like right when fish or whoever it is is trying to shoot him.

See, this is what happens when you're sick. You memorize movie quotes.

[edit on 28/2/06 by SFRemmy]

Originally posted by American Mad Man
The point is, it takes more athleticism to play football then soccer. If you invented 10 new sports that niether athletes had played before, then took the best athletes from each sport to make a team, the football players would win at least 9, and probably all 10 of them.

Sure, if you Americans invented those ten sports, American Football players would win them all, because no skill will be needed, just brute force. That's your style.

Of course American Football players are bigger and stronger than Football players, so?
They are because they have to. What you don't understand is that that doesn't make American Football better than real Football. Weight and muscles you can get in a gym, but talent and dexterity to kick and control a ball, that's different.

[sarcasm]But it's ok, the whole world is wrong, except for the United States. We must be gay.[/sarcasm]








[edit on 28-2-2006 by Peronemlin]

[edit on 28-2-2006 by Peronemlin]

Originally posted by American Mad Man
From what I heard, every player in his testing group had their wonderlic graded wrong. He retook it and scored a 16.

Yeah, I don't put much into the test results personally, but sheesh! What it tells me is that he really did get a 6 and then was coached to a 16. If the original test was misgraded then why not just regrade it? I don't care anyways, Bush is the smart pick at #1.

As far as the prospect that AMM pointed out, that kind of atletic ability would be wasted in the game of soccer. There's no need for it.

A soccer scouting combine would consist of the following drills:

1) How many times can you bounce the ball off your head
2) Tripping drills
3) Hacky sack competitions for eye/foot coordination
4) Shirt tearing drills for goal scoring celebration
5) Which goalie can inhale the most smelling salts to stay awake
6) Who can kick the ball out of bounds the most times in a sixty second span

Peace

[edit on 28-2-2006 by Dr Love]

Originally posted by American Mad Man
The point is, it takes more athleticism to play football then soccer. If you invented 10 new sports that niether athletes had played before, then took the best athletes from each sport to make a team, the football players would win at least 9, and probably all 10 of them.

LOL, American football players have absolutely no stamina whatsoever. I'd like to see them play Rugby Union or AFL, they'd be on their arse in 5 minutes huffing and puffing, let alone being able to play 80 minutes.

As far as skill, maybe the quarterback might have a bit to be able to throw the ball, but everyone else ..... just does this :bnghd:

What I find really funny was watching letterman and the QBack from the winning team said it's great to be " world champions ", I couldn't stop laughing when I heard that. Who the hell else bothers to play Yank football

On to how high players can jump, I believe these pictures say it all and they're not 6'10" tall american footy players




BTW. An average professional AFL player runs about 15 km's per game or about 10 miles, how far would an American Football player run 3-400 yards ? Not much more.

Just go ahead and look up the NFL combine results. Look up a guy like Manny Lawson. This is a guy who is rated between the 20th and 40th best prospect this year. He is 6'5", 255 pounds, has a 39 inch vertical jump, and runs a 4.4 forty. Think about all of those abilities individually. Then combine them into one player

What you call your best player, we call average Absolutely no competition. Oh yeah what skills does he have ? being able to run fast with a ball, so can dogs

[edit on 28-2-2006 by rogue1]

Originally posted by rogue1
Oh yeah what skills does he have ? being able to run fast with a ball, so can dogs

You made me laugh, that's true.

Originally posted by Peronemlin

Originally posted by rogue1
Oh yeah what skills does he have ? being able to run fast with a ball, so can dogs

You made me laugh, that's true.

go lasey fech the stick

Originally posted by Peronemlin

Originally posted by rogue1
Oh yeah what skills does he have ? being able to run fast with a ball, so can dogs

You made me laugh, that's true.

Me too, as soon as I said that I spit mountain dew all over my keyboard and fried it. Hah. Thank god I have like 7 in the basement.

If y'all thought that line was so sidesplitting, then I got a comedian that's right up your alley. May I present to you the comic genius Carrot Top.



No need to thank me and you better stock up on Mountain Dew.

Peace

I'm slowly finding this poll to be more and more true. Thanks for supporting my thoughts.

Originally posted by LostSailor
I'm slowly finding this poll to be more and more true. Thanks for supporting my thoughts.

Don't make me go get the urine bags.

Just so I'm off off topic with a drenching threat, Steve McManaman ran something like 14 kilometers during the 2000 Champions League final, baring in mind Macca was a speedy winger, most of the distance is covered at speed, and IMO, that's stamina. Half of that distance, at a brisk walk, and I'm under the knife getting a new pair of lungs.

Originally posted by Peronemlin
Sure, if you Americans invented those ten sports, American Football players would win them all, because no skill will be needed, just brute force. That's your style.

Really? Have you ever seen a Basketball game? They have the most skill of any pr-sport.

Ever seen baseball? Try throwing a knuckle ball.

Of course American Football players are bigger and stronger than Football players, so?
They are because they have to. What you don't understand is that that doesn't make American Football better than real Football. Weight and muscles you can get in a gym, but talent and dexterity to kick and control a ball, that's different.

The point here is that they are a much higher quallity of athlete. Football players would be great soccer players if that is what they wanted to play. Not so with soccer players playing football.

[sarcasm]But it's ok, the whole world is wrong, except for the United States. We must be gay.[/sarcasm]

I was wondering why European men dress like our most flamboyant homosexuals... Might that have been a Freudian slip?

Originally posted by rogue1
LOL, American football players have absolutely no stamina whatsoever. I'd like to see them play Rugby Union or AFL, they'd be on their arse in 5 minutes huffing and puffing, let alone being able to play 80 minutes.

To quote a friend of mine who played rugby his whole life:

"If the US made a rugby team of NFL players, they would never lose a game."

Frankly, your opinion that football players have no endurance is pure ignorance. I'd really like to see a Rugby player make it through just one week of an NFL training camp.

As far as skill, maybe the quarterback might have a bit to be able to throw the ball, but everyone else ..... just does this :bnghd:

Yup, no skill here:

[imh]http://www.raiders.com/images/multimedia/2005-curry-wp-800.jpg[/img]

None here either:



or here:



Or here:



I could go into how much skill it takes to play offensive line, or linebacker, but you wouldn't understand that just because something requires physicallity, does not proclude skill from it as well.

Even those 300 pound guys you don't understand have tremendous ammounts of skill. It is technical skill though... How to block pleyers in certain situations, how to leverage a player, how to properly block a 'draw' play... If you want to know, go ahead and ask. But don't sit here and spout off about a sport you clearly haven't the faintest clue about.

What I find really funny was watching letterman and the QBack from the winning team said it's great to be " world champions ", I couldn't stop laughing when I heard that. Who the hell else bothers to play Yank football

You'd be surprised. Canada has a league. It's very popular in Mexico. there is the NFLE. Hell, on just about every football MB there are a slew of Europeans and asians.

On to how high players can jump, I believe these pictures say it all and they're not 6'10" tall american footy players

I was talking about vertical jumps - height has absolutely nothing to do with it other then giving you a dissadvantege because you generally weigh more.

BTW. An average professional AFL player runs about 15 km's per game or about 10 miles, how far would an American Football player run 3-400 yards ? Not much more.

You honestly don't think these guys have endurance? Hell, I remember for high-school training camp we'd run 6 miles a day. That was ON TOP OF the actual practice, where we would drive blocking sleds about 500 yards a day.

I'll tell you what - if you are ever in the US and get a chance to go to a training camp for an NFL team do it, then come on here and tell me they have no endurance.

What you call your best player, we call average

Absolutely no competition. Oh yeah what skills does he have ? being able to run fast with a ball, so can dogs

The 20 best athletes in every rookie draft are better then the top 20 soccer athletes in all the world.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
It's real simple.

There has never, in the history of soccer, been an athlete - be he American, European, or Asian - that has ever had the raw God (or genetic if you aren't religious) given talent as this guy has.

You simply can not find an athlete like this in all of soccer. A guy who is 6 feet, four inches tall, who is 250+ pounds of muscle, with a 40+ inch vertical jump and an unreal 4.32 forty yard dash.

Go ahead - try it. Sure there might be a few guys who are 6'4" in soccer. Hell, I'm sure a lot of the top teams strikers can run a 4.3 40. But NONE of them combine it all, especially with that much bulk. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with nationality. I can point out a guy named Nene from brazil who plays in the NBA (on the Denver Nuggets) - he's a better athlete then any soccer player in the world.

So by your rating system big men who can jump and run makes them the best athlete in the world. And some Brazilian basketball player who isnt the best player in the NBA is a better athlete than ANY soccer player on earth? Trying convincing a Brazilian that!
Why not have olympian triple jumpers be your favorite, they run in jump all over the place?

Rubbish!



What about athletes like skateboarders, etc. Any skateboarder could pick up a football and throw a pass. I doubt any football player could grab a skateboard and do a basic ollie, let alone more complicated tricks.
I think it is hard to speak in such Absolutisms. I love watching NFL and agree the athletes are amazing but its culutural impact and historical importance to real football is miniscule.
My idea of athletism isnt being strong and fast thats gym time and genetics. Things that take years to learn. Curving a soccerball for an imposible goal, busting a 1080 snowboarding in a half-pipe, an NFL player making a fingertip catch, etc. That is why I love sport.


[edit on 28-2-2006 by Bandar Paul]

Originally posted by American Mad Man
The point here is that they are a much higher quallity of athlete. Football players would be great soccer players if that is what they wanted to play. Not so with soccer players playing football.

Sure they will. Thanks god the USA is not interested in Football (real Football). If they were, they could use their super athletes and win all the World Cups from here to eternity

It's really stupid to think they would be better just because they are a "much higher quallity of athlete". You still don't understand you don't have to be superman to play football. There are other things involved.
Do you think Football teams wouldn't use "super athletes" if that is all they need to win?
Here's a good example:

You see? this little chubby guy was the best of his time. No super athlete here.

Originally posted by American Mad Man

[sarcasm]But it's ok, the whole world is wrong, except for the United States. We must be gay.[/sarcasm]

I was wondering why European men dress like our most flamboyant homosexuals... Might that have been a Freudian slip?

I can't answer you that. I'm not european.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Yup, no skill here:

Well, he could be the goalkeeper. If he dares to enter the field without a helmet



[edit on 28-2-2006 by Peronemlin]

Originally posted by Bandar Paul
So by your rating system big men who can jump and run makes them the best athlete in the world. And some Brazilian basketball player who isnt the best player in the NBA is a better athlete than ANY soccer player on earth? Trying convincing a Brazilian that!
Why not have olympian triple jumpers be your favorite, they run in jump all over the place?

I am not talking about being good at a specific sport, I am speaking of PURE ATHLETICISM.

A good athlete is someone who has very good speed, strength, agillity, acceleration, change of direction abillity, hand-eye coordination, endurance, jumping abillity, and that ever elusive term - explosiveness.

Or to use the dictionary:

A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

Dictionary

Skill is diffrent then athleticism. TO use a football example, Jerry Rice is considered by many to be the greatest football player in the history of the sport, regardless of position. He was an average, or maybe even below average athlete as a wide reciever. He was slightly above average in height, was 'slow' compard to many other players at his position, etc. He made up for this because his skill was so great. Not to get too into the technical aspects of football, but the guy ran the best routes of any WR in history (basically the pattern you will use to get open). Because of this, the 49ers were able to run the revolutionary "West Coast Offense" which was based on very short, high probabillity of completion passes.

Any Brazillian who argued a soccer player was more athletic then Nene would be ill-informed. Basketball players are undeniably THE best athletes in the world, of any sport, bar none. That is really not open for debate. Nene is a 6'11" 270 pound guy with INSANE jumping abillity as well as coordination, quickness, strength, and even speed.

What about athletes like skateboarders, etc. Any skateboarder could pick up a football and throw a pass. I doubt any football player could grab a skateboard and do a basic ollie, let alone more complicated tricks.
I think it is hard to speak in such Absolutisms. I love watching NFL and agree the athletes are amazing but its culutural impact and historical importance to real football is miniscule.

Funny you pick skateboarding. Skate boarding is much more of a "skill" then it is raw athleticism. I was a decent skateboarder back in the day, and I can still rip on a surf board (though I prefer to kick back on my Velzy long board then to go looking for bigger waves on the east coast to use my Ricky Caroll shaped gun) but neither of these sports require raw athleticism. A perfect example is Sean(spl?) White. He's the best "X athlete" ever, being a world class snowboarder and skate boarder. Is he a great pure athlete? Of course not. He's 5 foot nothing, a hundred pounds of nothing. He's great at those board sports where practice along with good lower body strength to weight ratio can make you great.

As far as cultural impact, I of course agree. Our sport is just barely out of it's infancy. Give it time to grow however, and I believe it could over take soccer. The main thing that makes soccer popular is it's simplicity. It's very easy to play, is cheap, and requires little knowledge of rules.

Football is the exact opposite - it is the most complex sport on the planet, with litterally hundreds of little rules, and about a dozen different positions each of which require completely different things. However, as it grows and other countries can actually watch the sport and understand it, it will certainly gain popularity.

My idea of athletism isnt being strong and fast thats gym time and genetics. Things that take years to learn. Curving a soccerball for an imposible goal, busting a 1080 snowboarding in a half-pipe, an NFL player making a fingertip catch, etc. That is why I love sport.

Well, that's the thing - you are confusing skill with athleticism. They are not one in the same. Putting a free kick around a wall like Carlos is apt to do i different then being a great natural athlete who can run and jump.

Originally posted by Peronemlin
Sure they will. Thanks god the USA is not interested in Football (real Football). If they were, they could use their super athletes and win all the World Cups from here to eternity

I've said it before... You better be affraid if soccer were to ever catch on in the US. If Adu turns into a star and starts a soccer craze, the US might end up taking Brazils spot atop the soccer thrown down the line.

It's really stupid to think they would be better just because they are a "much higher quallity of athlete". You still don't understand you don't have to be superman to play football. There are other things involved.
Do you think Football teams wouldn't use "super athletes" if that is all they need to win?
Here's a good example:

You see? this little chubby guy was the best of his time. No super athlete here.

Maradona I assume? (sorry, I don't really know him by face... BTW, hows his drug problem going?).

The thing is, if the US were to ever embrace soccer as much as we have other sports, you'd see the skill of a Pele or Marodana with the raw athleticism of our football players. Sports in the US require just as much skill, and all of our best have both skill and athleticism.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
I can't answer you that. I'm not european.

Ohhhh, do share. There's plenty of mud slinging to go around...

Well, he could be the goalkeeper. If he dares to enter the field without a helmet

Funny enough, this ex-football player just got back from his soccer league. I play... you guessed it - keeper.

However, I never had good enough hands to play WR. It's much harder to handle a football then a soccer one.

BTW, about all the pads football palyers wear...

I'd like to point out that it was originaly played without pads. However, in the early 1900's, a LOT of people started getting killed while playing. If my memory serves me right, the US President at the time threatened to ban the sport if pads were not incorporated after 3 college students were killed in a single game.

Basically, Football would be akin to gladitorial combat without pads.

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by Peronemlin
Sure they will. Thanks god the USA is not interested in Football (real Football). If they were, they could use their super athletes and win all the World Cups from here to eternity

I've said it before... You better be affraid if soccer were to ever catch on in the US. If Adu turns into a star and starts a soccer craze, the US might end up taking Brazils spot atop the soccer thrown down the line.

It's really stupid to think they would be better just because they are a "much higher quallity of athlete". You still don't understand you don't have to be superman to play football. There are other things involved.
Do you think Football teams wouldn't use "super athletes" if that is all they need to win?
Here's a good example:

You see? this little chubby guy was the best of his time. No super athlete here.

Maradona I assume? (sorry, I don't really know him by face... BTW, hows his drug problem going?).

The thing is, if the US were to ever embrace soccer as much as we have other sports, you'd see the skill of a Pele or Marodana with the raw athleticism of our football players. Sports in the US require just as much skill, and all of our best have both skill and athleticism.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
I can't answer you that. I'm not european.

Ohhhh, do share. There's plenty of mud slinging to go around...

Well, he could be the goalkeeper. If he dares to enter the field without a helmet

Funny enough, this ex-football player just got back from his soccer league. I play... you guessed it - keeper.

However, I never had good enough hands to play WR. It's much harder to handle a football then a soccer one.

Adu is hardly the best player in the world. Not even in the top 30. Maybe in 10 years he might be, but he's not even close now. Even if soccer caught on, the brazilians would still have us beat down, BIG TIME.

As for Maradona, last I heard he's clean I believe. Off the drugs and the drink, and I thought I heard he got his own tv show or something like that

You do realize raw athleticism doesn't mean you'll be great in playing a game that requires finesse. Unless people like Mcnabb or Vick could refine themselves, they'd just be really fast, athletic, crappy soccer players.

It's like the smart person stereotype. They focus so much on learning they suck in social skills. Just because an athlete is good overall in everything, doesn't mean he could switch to a different sport and rule it. you have to learn the nuances and intricacies of the game.

How is it harder to catch a football? I've never had a problem catching a football. My dad (in his 50's now) used to QB for his catholic high shcool team. We had him clocked a few months ago at a speed of around 55mph throwing speed for a few consistent throws. I can catch those no problem. Same with slowballs. The team I was on in high school, that kid had around a 60-70mph throw. No problem catching those. You can catch them easy because they tend to fly straight in a sprial, so their fall is predictable.

A soccer ball is much harder to catch due to its size, the way a person strikes it, the curve, etc...