New Israeili Arrow test intercepted Iranian Shahab 3

I'm kinda of getting the feeling Israelis are pushing themselves into a cold war with Iran.

Israel missile test 'successful'

Israel has carried out a successful test of its Arrow missile defence system, military officials have said.
An Arrow missile intercepted and destroyed a target similar to Iran's long-range Shahab-3 missile.

The test was launched from an air force base in the centre of Israel and stuck a target over the Mediterranean.

news.bbc.co.uk...

I wonder if it has the capability to deal with iranian solid fueled shahab 3?

First it all started when Iran announced they have successfully tested Shahab-3 ==>
Arrow I system proved to be too good for shahab-3 ==> new shahab-3 design with improved performance
==> new Arrow II failed against improved shahab-3 ==> test of solid fueled shahab 3
==> now, we have Israelis claiming this arrow II will intercept shahab-3 ==>
Let me guess, a few weeks later, Iran will announce it is going to mass produce solid fueled shahab-3, or testing a two stage missile or something.

not to mention the comments made by pres. Ahmadinejad, and now Israeilis setting a date to attack Iran.

and also the new tor m-1 system iran is going to purchase to counter any possible israeili attack.

let's see who wins

RESPECT

Where did you read that?

[edit on 2-12-2005 by Denied]

well this has been posted on Defence Talk Forum, and it was in the news the other day.

Farkash sets deadline for strike on Iran

After March Israel must be prepared to use means other than diplomacy to halt Iran's nuclear weapons program, warned the head of the military intelligence Wednesday.

Military Intelligence Chief Aharon Zeevi Farkash would not detail other options, but sources on the Knesset's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, which Farkash was addressing, said it was clear that Israel would have to consider taking military action against Iran.

"In my years here, seeing the data I have seen, I feel it is clear that Iran has passed the point of no return," said committee chairman Yuval Steinitz (Likud). "It is accurate to say that unless Iran encounters a major interference, it will have a functioning nuclear arsenal within one or two years."

Iran has produced 45 tons of UF- 6 gas that is used in the centrifuge process for producing enriched uranium for nuclear weapons, said Steinitz.

"If by the end of March 2006 the international community will have failed to halt Iran's nuclear weapons program, diplomatic efforts will be pointless," said Farkash. "Iran has the upper hand in negotiations with the international community.

In order to deflect international attention from its weapons program, Iran has been encouraging Hizbullah to step up attacks on Israel, said Farkash, noting that the recent Hizbullah attacks along Israel's northern border were instigated by Syria and Iran.

"The latest flare up in the north was a strategic plan by Hizbullah," Farkash said. "They hoped we would retaliate by firing rockets and hitting civilians. We have seen evidence of them preparing for this type of attack along the border." Farkash added that the IDF had responded 'appropriately' and not given Hizbullah a pretext to escalate the violence.

Farkash explained that Syria and Iran were attempting to heat up the situation along the border to deflect international attention on their own policies. Syria is facing a United Nations probe into the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri in December.

More Hizbullah attacks can be expected until the UN report on Hariri's assassination is released on December 15th, said Farkash. He suggested that Hizbullah might launch a drone packed with explosives at Israel, or try to attack Israelis abroad.

In addition, Farkash told the committee that the border between Syria and
had become porous, with Syria enabling terrorists to pass freely.

"Syria hopes to see a American failure in Iraq," said Farkash. "The Americans would not have the military or political capacity for another military operation in the region." The intelligence chief did not elaborate but a spokesman for the committee said that he was apparently alluding to Iran and Syria.

Meanwhile, the IDF expects Hamas to preserve the lull in violence until the January 25th elections, although the Hamas military wing has been pressuring for renewed attacks, said Farkash. Hamas hopes to win 30 percent of the vote in the upcoming elections. Islamic Jihad will not run in the elections, and will be expected to mount terror attacks added Farkash.

Link : www.jpost.com...

I should have probably made a new thread about this

Originally posted by proprog

Link : www.jpost.com...

Could you please provide a link that works?

I could not find the story you provided

- and even by typing "Farkash" into Jerusalem Posts "search" archive I did not find such an article.

I wonder if it's just a threat or he really meant it.

I know very well that Iran is not going to back off from its right to enrich uranium on its soil, so I believe an attack is inevitable.

very nice way to start the year.
THREE MONTHS TO ANOTHER WAR

I'm off to the market to buy anything I can find to survive a year or two in a bunker I'm going to build in the backyard, because if a war between these 2 sides breaks out, noone, nowhere is safe.


RESPECT

Yes, there are news on this in the media.

But they are like this






[edit on 2-12-2005 by Riwka]

They have removed the story and replaced it with this one PM: Iranian nukes unacceptable already posted. dodgy

as I said, There is a whole lot about this in Defenec Forum.

The guy at the end claims to be israeili and says the news has been on their TV all day.

www.defencetalk.com...


RESPECT

Originally posted by proprog

I'm kinda of getting the feeling Israelis are pushing themselves into a cold war with Iran.

No.

Just protection against such a country.


Military rally in Iran last week. Banner on bus reads:
Israel should be wiped out of the face of the world.
(Photo: AP)

I thought this is part of the cold war propaganda.

"Israel must be wiped off the map" sort of comment made by Iranian top officials
VERSUS BIG ISRAEL DOCTRINE proposed by Founders of Israel


RESPECT

Originally posted by proprog

"Israel must be wiped off the map" sort of comment made by Iranian top officials VERSUS BIG ISRAEL DOCTRINE

"Big Israel doctrine" ? That is a good joke.

You might be interested in this topic: ATSNN: Leaving Gaza


[edit on 2-12-2005 by Riwka]

The initial plan was to expand israel from red sea to Tigris river, but they never succeeded, simply because they did not expect to face this much resistance by islamic jihad groups operating both in Israel and Lebanon.

Gaza Stripe pullout was simply a way to divert the attentions from the crimes comitted by the Israel government, still named as Occupiers by the Arab world. Gaza Stripe had become a major battleground for Arab jihadids to fight Israelis and soon or later Israel had to pull out of the region. Not to mention, Jerusalem issue still remains, and as long as the issue is not resolved, Iran will stand by its leader's comment to wipe out Israel.


RESPECT

Iran just bought $1b in surface to air missiles from Russia. Hopefully this time we can just sell Isreal the planes instead of flying them as well.

already posted at www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by proprog
The initial plan was to expand israel from red sea to Tigris river, but they never succeeded, simply because they did not expect to face this much resistance by islamic jihad groups operating both in Israel and Lebanon.

Um, can you provide any proof of this? And how do you explain Israel's return of the Sanai to Egypt, and their subsequent peaceful releationship?

Is this similar to Israel wanting to destroy Iran? or is that acceptable

Originally posted by proprog
The initial plan was to expand israel from red sea to Tigris river, but they never succeeded....

The initial plan of this form was to discuss weapons and weapons system, but we never succeeded due to member that kept dragging in other issues side-tracking the discussion.

The what so called Promised Land is not Jerusalem and the surrounding. It covers the entire area from Red Sea to Tigris River. I read somewhere, that this area goes well into Iran, simply because Iran is believed to be hosting the Shrine of the Prophet Daniel somewhere in the city of SHIRAZ (well-known brand for alcoholic drinks).

As I said before, this plan was not and won't be accomplished militarily, so now they are trying to influence regional governments by both political and economical means, thanx to their PAYMASTER (uncle sam, us, whateva, for those of you who didn't get this one).

RESPECT

Some Comments:

1. The intelligence arm of any nation exists SOLELY to provide 'options and indicators'. Indicators tell you what may happen if someone else does X. Options tell you what you can do, if they do.

/Occasionally/ they can be used for propoganda purposes for political or diplomatic coin (our Red Book yearly surveys of Russian weapons systems from the 1960's on were nothing but grist to gain defense bucks in Congress) but usually they reserve their words for those who have the moxy to do something with them.

In this case, absent a Menachim Begin, it is possible that Farakash got so worried over the bureaucratic delays that he decided to make something clear: "We must do /something/ (stage another raid, go to direct action, allow them nukes or inspire the International Community) before they begin the enrichment process."

Again, in 1981 the IDFAF's attack happened but /days/ before the Osirak complex was due to go 'live' and any further interdiction would have potentially sprayed the wide areas with radioactivity. While the Al Tuwaitha complex used a different form of enrichment from the gas diffusion method the Iranians intend for distributed production; the fact remains that by their very cleverness of 'staging' the process through three separate facilities, once the process begins, it will become /very/ hard to find all the yellow cake and 'eat it too'.

Mind you, there are 'offsets' from the other side too in that standoff weapons with HTSF/MEF equivalent fuzing can avoid the primary reactor or processor facilities while taking out everything from power to lading docks to the science wing where the project engineers are monitoring 'the experiments'. With systems like the Popeye Turbo and Delilah-

www.israeli-weapons.com...

www.israeli-weapons.com...

You have anywhere from 60 to 180nm worth of standoff.

Such that there is actually very little direct risk to the strike package _from the target point defenses_. While, particularly with Delilah, you can carry so many of them that TOR-M1 (SA-15 Gauntlet) can itself become a short-horizon target or outright saturation bypassed defensive non-player (it is designed specifically to engage _tactical_ microtargets like drones, Maverick, Hellfire and the like).

The real problem is two fold:

1. You cannot get there from here.
Even with the F-15I, the ranges to the Isfahan, Ardekan and Natanz sites are almost 370nm further than those which brought the IDFAF to the Tammuz site.

2. This is coupled to the status of the U.S. as a conquering power ensuring Iraq's airspace sovereignity. Plus the general proliferation of advanced weapons and surveillance systems in the Gulf.

So that the combination of penetration aid ordnance expenditure on nominally friendly or neutral intercept threats. And the need to horde fuel /well/ beyond what a no-tanker mission force could reasonably expect to achieve (even a single engagement would have caused the F-16's in 1981 to fail to come home and they only flew 550nm out and 450nm back) makes an air raid impossible for the IDFAF.

If the attacks come, they will be by sea using cruise missiles (tested in the IO during 2000 with a 1,500km range and supposedly a complete engagement sequence including a loworder nuclear yield) off the INS Dolphin subs.

Or perhaps through the expediency of CBM fitted Jericho 3s.

Because these can both preposition to a blue-water safe standoff with zero 'ton mile' diplomacy compromises. And flyout to distances well beyond the effective reach-and-return which you would expect of a conventional air platform. They are the future of airpower in a region where threats and haters hide behind other threats and haters whose 'neutrality' acts as a buffer.

The use of CBM (Conventional Ballistic Missile) is actually well documented in Russian service where, ironically, they were intended to decapitate USAFE airbases in Germany. Most recently, last year an SS-21 Spyder hit what was technically a 'point target' when it was coordinate guided to a COMINT track on a Chechen warlord using his mobile phone in a single remote house. I would not be surprised if the Israeli's can match this.

Which brings us to the uses of missiles in general. Cruise systems are slow but cheap and generally covert or at least 'politely routeable', in their overflight requirements.

CBMs are fast so that you can actually hit 'TCT's or Time Critical Target sets without too much lag out and despite all the hooplah about Arrow, they are /very/ hard to decisively hit. Unfortunately or otherwise, their reliability under the massive acceleration and Q loads on both the start (heavy) and end parabola (low control mass, high side forces at Mach 8-12) makes their initial investment cost quite high. As a direct correlate with reliability of the system itself. This is offset against the low cost to keep them in service and their instant-on readiness within protected bunker complexes of Zakharia.

Of course the BIG if is that of hypocrisy vs. intended use. Israel has had nuclear weapons out of her Dimona facility (itself a 'French import') since the mid 60's. And while she has never overtly threatened their use in a preemptive manner, there is a lot of secondary evidence that her possession of independent nukes is what stopped the Russians from making a bad mistake in 1973.

It could just be that Iran, having been bled white by the loss of not just American but /Western/ aid in a war that we instigated and backed Saddam in. Is simply trying to ensure that such an affair never happens again.

However; Iran's activities in the terrorist world suggest that she is and has been the big financial backer of almost all activity within Hezbollah and IJ throughout Lebanon and the Occupieds. And she has hosted annual 'terror conventions' with the heads of the big organizations, including Al Quaeda since the middle 90s.

Such an attitude of paying for what you don't want to be acknowledged with together with a willingness to be painted in the colors of those you sleep with, tends to raise terrifying ideas of "What if a few pounds of YC goes missing only to end up reblended in a Korean facility...". And detonated on friendly soil.

It is because of THIS attitude of rebellious intent to be our equals as nuclear force proponents, along with a redneck circle of careless acquaintances, that the Arabs and Persians both end up looking too troubled in their own youthful exuberance to be trusted as stable (responsible) _nations_.

In the end, assuming we could ELINT backtrack what we could not isotopically isolate, the fact remains that the U.S. or Europe could probably take a small hit and continue functioning. While the _city states_ of the SWA/ME region would simply be obliterated to provide an extreme example of "It doesn't matter who. You're all tarred by the same broad brush strokes..."

And that is something that NEITHER the Iranians -nor- the Israelis can 'live with'. Because a single nuke detonated over Tel Aviv could poison half the country. And if we turned all of Iran into a self lighting parking lot, it still would not equal the fiscal, commercial or cultural loss (in our eyes) of what an assymetric attack (low yields in 10-20 locations) would do here.

i.e. Iran has put themselves in a situation whereby, if we cannot identify where the WMD has come from, we will simply start checking off names on our own hitlist. And Israel cannot rely on that kind of ultimate vengeance because she just doesn't have the land area or economic mass to recover from a sideswipe, let alone deliberate attack.

And so everyone who is someone, sees the Iranian entry to the nuclear club as more hassle than it's worth.

As far as Arrow goes. Ainh. Mechanical Intercept technology will ALWAYS be subject to downrange (horizon and RCS without satellite cue) and crossrange (to hit a 4-6km/sec weapon that is not coming _directly at you_ requires either a huge performance and targeting advantage on the oder of 8-10km/sec and with massive trajectory shunting=fuel mass problem in a near-vac high-Endo/Exo environment) limitations if ground launched. And suffer tremendous cost and further weight problems if mounted on an HAEUAV.

Comparitively, it's cheap to multiwarhead weapons. And once you get but technology down, it's simple to just keep adding (landbased) staging to take that bus as far around the world as you want to go. At which point the MIRV/MARV/Decoy game starts to make the defender pay terribly in terms of 'might as well' added impact sites for the very threat multiplication he has himself forced on his enemy.

IOW: Especially now that DEWs are just around the corner, it's starting to look like the only use for mechanical intercept technology is as a portable system for naval commerce and beachhead reinforcement missions (the Taiwan Straights game).

As such, America using Israel as it's 'no ABM-T Treaty here!' weapons lab and test range is nothing more than a secondary backup for an anachronistic system concept. Something we should have realized that /they realized/ (and were Jew-makes-profit-on-everything) when they started selling Green Pine to the Indians.

Such is the true weakness of the Israeli case. They scream murder but then sell their souls. And considering they have stolen everything they own from the Arabs not the Italians (when Ethiopia and Argentina both offered a homeland option) that is basically laughable irony from the start.


KPl.

Originally posted by proprog
The what so called Promised Land is not Jerusalem and the surrounding. It covers the entire area from Red Sea to Tigris River. I read somewhere, that this area goes well into Iran, simply because Iran is believed to be hosting the Shrine of the Prophet Daniel somewhere in the city of SHIRAZ (well-known brand for alcoholic drinks).

As I said before, this plan was not and won't be accomplished militarily, so now they are trying to influence regional governments by both political and economical means, thanx to their PAYMASTER (uncle sam, us, whateva, for those of you who didn't get this one).

RESPECT

Sorry but i missunderstand your post,
Is this meant to happen before are after the Jews take over the entire world with their bizzare mix of both communism and socialism? Or is this part of the wider zionist conspiracy to change the way that simple hillbillie hicks such as yourself live out their pointless lives?

I am genuinely confused.

It is true that the original promised lad was to encompass "the land between the rivers" (meaning the Euthrates and Tigris) and stretch to sinai. However if you hadent noticed that land is currently part of many other countries, and Israel exists quite happily at its current size. If there 'evil Jews' were to want to perhaps take over the land promised to them then you would see most of the middle east go up in flames as no real other county is a match for the professionalism or ability of the Israelis.

Jensy