The KKK. Are they masons in disguise or practicing occultists?

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Unfortunately, there have been Masons in the past who were members of the Ku Klux Klan. On the other hand, and fortunately, there have been Klansman who joined the Masons, and after accepting the teachings of Masonry, had left the Ku Klux Klan, and denounced it after having a change of heart. Harry S. Truman and Strom Thurmond are examples.

Masonic Light. What is your referance material on H. S. Truman being a past Klansman. I have never hear this before?

Originally posted by lost in the midwest

Masonic Light. What is your referance material on H. S. Truman being a past Klansman. I have never hear this before?

Old news. and a non-story.

Truman’s background produced what one would have expected and the young Truman would have had the same views as most other youths in Independence. When he got involved in politics at an early age, he did what any aspiring politician did in the South, he paid $10 to join the KKK.

LINK

This is akin to some of the Hollywood society "joining" the Communist Party early on, only having it come back to haunt them in the '50s. it was the thing of the moment.

Sorry ML, just jumping in.

My teacher, a white man, is a mason but his wife is a black woman.

Originally posted by MacDonagh
So. Does anyone know that if the KKK indulged in occult activities?

Extremely unlikely, they're rabid christians. The type that don't think catholics are christians and can't join, and the like. IOW, not the sort to get involved in the occult. The regular KKK anyways.

The Pike / KKK connection is not slight; although many other connections to the KKK are "questionable" this one is not.
Also Pike is clearly a racist and even goes so far to deride democracies that allow negros (who are but one step away from barbarity) the vote and declares that the day when blacks are allowed into the lodges is the day he will leave in several of his writings.

The KKK is a offshoot Masonic organisation just as "The Shriners" or "Tall Cedars of Lebanon", "Eastern Star" etc... it's guiding priciples are very much within the broad framework that The Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry depicts, but it is one of the more extreme organizations that appeared during the late 19th centuary alongside "The Thule Society" (Nazism) and Communism.

Having said that, they are really a soft target nowadays and do not look like they will ever regain the power and influence they had in the early 20th century.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
The Pike / KKK connection is not slight; although many other connections to the KKK are "questionable" this one is not.

There have been several recent threads that discuss this issue in more depth - I would refer you to 'American Albert Pike: Hero, or Villain?' but there are others.

Also Pike is clearly a racist and even goes so far to deride democracies that allow negros (who are but one step away from barbarity) the vote and declares that the day when blacks are allowed into the lodges is the day he will leave in several of his writings.

There are many who would not agree with your assessment of Pike. My view is that he was a Civil War hero who led Native American troops at a time when many Americans took a racist view of 'Indians'.

The KKK is a offshoot Masonic organisation just as "The Shriners" or "Tall Cedars of Lebanon", "Eastern Star" etc...

This is completely false. Members of the KKK do not have to have any masonic connection as a prerequisite to joining. There is no link whatsoever between the two organisation other than some individuals may be members of both.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
The Pike / KKK connection is not slight; although many other connections to the KKK are "questionable" this one is not. Also Pike is clearly a racist and even goes so far to deride democracies that allow negros (who are but one step away from barbarity) the vote and declares that the day when blacks are allowed into the lodges is the day he will leave in several of his writings.

I have seen many references to this claim, usually on the more rabid anti-masonic sites. I assume you're prepared to provide evidence of these allegations? Bear in mind, telling us where you heard it doesn't constitute evidence, it constitutes "hearsay".

The KKK is a offshoot Masonic organisation just as "The Shriners" or "Tall Cedars of Lebanon", "Eastern Star" etc...

That is ridiculous slander of all of these institutions, and even you are intelligent enough to know what you are doing. Even you cannot possibly be that stupid.

Masonry donates roughly $730 million dollars a year to Charity. Has the klan spent 7 Billion (with a "B") Dollars to help crippled and burned children?

Again, please provide any credible evidence you may have that the Klan has any connection whatsoever to Legitimate Freemasonry.

it's guiding priciples are very much within the broad framework that The Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry depicts

You again demonstrate your COMPLETE and UTTER IGNORANCE of the subject. The A.&A.S.R. "depicts" only absolute disdain for -- and requires a solemn vow to oppose by all available means -- bigotry and despotism in all its forms. Anyone who claims otherwise is a fool, a liar, or BOTH.

Are you really ready to need a new toilet again, GROSS?

DD

[edit on 10-12-2005 by Dedicated_Dad]

BAHH I WANT PROOF!
That bloke better have some!

Originally posted by MrNECROS
The Pike / KKK connection is not slight; although many other connections to the KKK are "questionable" this one is not.

We've already had a huge discussion over this, no one was able to present any good evidence.

The KKK is a offshoot Masonic organisation just as "The Shriners" or "Tall Cedars of Lebanon", "Eastern Star" etc

Thats quite the exxageration, those other groups are co-masonic and more or less recognized by masonry and members only masons can join some of them, hardly at all like the KKK. Saying its a masonically derived or even related organization is debatable but its fantasy to say its as related to masonry as the Shriners.

but it is one of the more extreme organizations that appeared during the late 19th centuary alongside "The Thule Society" (Nazism) and Communism.

Thule was more theosophical than nazi. Especially considering that the nazis outlawed Thule, and masonry. Communism isn't a secret society at all, its an open political ideology.

The Nazi's outlawed Thule?
They WERE The Thule Society, hence the swastika.

As far as the Pike being a racist bit - he openly declares himself as such, it was not seen as a bad thing in those days.

His writings are full of his belief in the need to keep seperate the various tribes of humanity - but reading Morals & Dogma is not a quick and simple task and it's always difficult to summon up precise page numbers for sections that aren't listed in the Appendix.
There are more than a few statements made in the book (and his other writings) that show his distain for negros, but the passage where he derides politicians that will "...even seek the vote of a negro..." is the one, I'm trying to locate right now.

If anyone knows the exact page number please save me the effort - I believe that there is a fairly long section on this matter on the Freemasonry Watch website which sites the exact page number for this quote along with others.

Heh - yes the hypocritical nature of Freemasonry itself is really brought out by the way Pike denounces "Bigotry" yet displays the same bigoted beliefs against both Athiests and Negros.


[edit on 10-12-2005 by MrNECROS]

Play nicely, sports fans

Originally posted by MrNECROS
The Nazi's outlawed Thule?

Yes. You were unaware?

They WERE The Thule Society, hence the swastika.

The swatsika is a vedic symbol. Did Thule even use it? I am not that familiar with them using it. Also, did they use the actual nazi swastika, the one tilted and counter-rotating?

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by MrNECROS
The Nazi's outlawed Thule?

Yes. You were unaware?

They WERE The Thule Society, hence the swastika.

The swatsika is a vedic symbol. Did Thule even use it? I am not that familiar with them using it. Also, did they use the actual nazi swastika, the one tilted and counter-rotating?

Yes - it was part of their crest but it had curved arms and was superimposed over a jagged dagger.

A lot of info on Thule is in the archives here and also a quick Google will confirm all of this.

The "suppression" of Thule is a strange bit of lore that seems to have sprung up recently - according to most books on the subject, Thule became the Nazi party.
I haven't seen anything other than the odd random posting on the web that says otherwise.
...but this is WAY off topic.

[edit on 15-12-2005 by MrNECROS]

The KKK is the same group of trash they were at the height of their power in the 1920's. I have heard of some links to some kind of group though, I heard it in some documentary. While I dont think it beyond them to be practicing the occult, seeing as they no longer have power and are desperate enough to resort to nonsense to try and get it back. I will have to keep up with htis one. Interesting.

Originally posted by MacDonagh
But first I will like to focus on the original aims of the KKK.

[snip]

Those rules were made up in 1865-66. It didn't seem to mean to have any sort of overall racist agenda. It seemed to be more about looking after the Southern folk a neighbourhood watch or something. No mention of the lynching or the persecution of black people. I find it strange that a racist organisation, has nothing on any rules of race.

That's because they were originally formed to "defend the southern way of life" or the "honor of the south" or some such, but rather educated gentlemen.

As others have pointed out the original KKK disbanded and rascist/terrorists corrupted any furthur incarnations of the KKK.

Hence the dichotomy betwen the founding purposes and what it actually does.

I thought this was pretty cut & dry. Albert Pike WAS in the Klan. This is not shocking. This is expected considering the time period,the fact that the Klan held meetings in masonic lodges,and especially given the book and credentials of the author( below ) who implicated Pike who was also a Confederate general. Denial. Man,I guess some people have alot to lose if the truth comes out.



It was in 1905 that the Neale Publishing Company, New York and Washington, published Ku Klux Klan: Its Origin, Growth and Disbandment, written and edited by Walter L. Fleming, incorporating earlier published material by J.C. Lester and D.L. Wilson. Historian Walter Fleming's introduction to this 1905 book explains that he has been given "information in regard to Ku Klux Klan, by many former members of the order, and by their friends and relatives." Dr. Fleming states that "General Albert Pike, who stood high in the Masonic order, was the chief judicial officer of the Klan." On a page of illustrations of important founders of the KKK, Dr. Fleming places General Pike's portrait in the center, makes it larger than the six others on the page, and repeats this information as a caption: "General Albert Pike, chief judicial officer". Dr. Fleming attaches as an appendix to his book, a KKK "prescript" or secret constitution which had then recently been discovered. This document sets forth the regulations of the Klan's "judiciary"' department, over which Albert Pike ruled. This is the internal disciplinary or counterintelligence department. It also corresponds to Pike and the Klan's influence over the regular court system and the legal profession in the post-civil War southern states.

As the boss of all the southern secret societies and simultaneously president of the Tennessee Bar Association, Pike was the grand strategist of Klan "justice." It is to be stressed that Walter Fleming's book was not a slander or hatchet job against Albert Pike. Though it revealed much important data for the first time, it placed the KKK and Pike in the most favorable possible light. The book was a hit among diehard Confederates and Anglo-Saxon "race patriots," and it launched Fleming's career as the dean of southern historians. Fleming became the leading apologist for the KKK, and was the father of the modern historical line that Reconstruction was a corrupt oppression of the South. In September 1903, Fleming had written in the Journal of the Southern History Association: "The very need for such an organization in the disordered conditions of the time caused the Dens [KKK local units] to begin to exercise the duties of a police patrol for regulating the conduct of thieving and impudent negroes and similar "loyal' whites...." Dr. Fleming's biases have not hurt his reputation with established authorities. The National Cyclopedia of American Biography calls his 1905 Ku Klux Klan history "an authoritative account of that organization." The Dictionary of American Biography states bluntly: "Fleming covered the Civil War and Reconstruction in the South more fully than any other man. His works are characterized by ... scholarly objective. A Southerner, Fleming wrote of the sectional conflict with Southern sympathies yet he was more objective than most Southerners of his generation. The historiography of the Civil War and Reconstruction owes much to his indefatigable research, his breadth of scholarship, and power of interpretation." Basing his career on his defense of Pike's KKK, Fleming became dean of arts and sciences at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee.



Scholarship

Dr. Walter Fleming's Academic Credentials by Auburn University.

Where or what are the academic credentials of Masonic "truth seekers" such as the self styled "Grand" Lodge of BC and others that call anyone who says Pike was a key figure in the KKK a liar and "a hater"?

FLEMING, WALTER LYNWOOD, 1874-1932

University professor, dean. Born: April 8, 1874, Brundridge. Parents: William Leroy and Mary Love (Edwood) Fleming. Married: Mary Wright Boyd, September 17, 1902. Children: Four. Education: Alabama Polytechnic Institute, B.S., (with honor), 1896; M.A., 1897; Columbia University, A.M., 1901; Ph.D., 1904. While at Auburn served as an instructor in history and English; assistant librarian. At Columbia, lecturer in history. Served with the Alabama Voluntary Infantry in the Spanish-American War. Taught at West Virginia University, 1903-1907; Louisiana State University, 1907-1917; Vanderbilt University, 1917-1928; dean of the College of Arts and Services, 1923-1926. Member of the editorial board of the Mississippi Valley Historical Review, 1922.

Source: Who Was Who in America, Vol. 1; Owen's The Story of Alabama, and Dictionary of American Biography, Supplement 1.

Author: Civil War and Reconstruction in Alabama. New York: Columbia University Press, 1905.

Documentary History of Reconstruction: Political, Military, Social, Religious, Educational & Industrial, 1861 to the Present Time. Cleveland, Ohio: A. H. Clarke Co., 1906-1907.

The Freedman's Savings Bank. Chapel Hill, N.C.: University of North Carolina Press, 1927.

History of Louisiana State University (1860-1896). Sewanee, Tenn.: The University of the South Press, 1931.

The Reconstruction of the Seceded States, 1865-76. Albany, N.Y.: New York State Education Department, 1905.

The Reconstruction Period: a Syllabus & Reference List. Morgantown, W. Va.: A. G. Sturgiss, 1904.

The Sequel to Appomatox .... New Haven, Conn.: Yale University Press, 1921.

Southern Biography. (Vols. 11 & 12 in The South in the Building of the Nation) Richmond, Va.: Southern Historical Publication Society, 1909-1913.

Editor: Documents Relating to Reconstruction. Morgantown, W. Va.: s.n., 1904.

General W.T. Sherman as College President: a Collection of Letters, Documents, and Other Material .... Cleveland, Ohio: The Arthur M. Clarke Co., 1912.

Ku Klux Klan, its Origin, Growth and Disbandment. New York: Neale Pub. Co., 1905.

SOURCE:

Auburn University History Department

Originally posted by MacDonagh
I don't buy that Ku Klux just means "circle clan". I suspect you could find some different meanings for Ku and Klux. I wonder what Ku or Klux means in other languages. I think I recall somewhere that Klux in Slovakian for a type of fairy who does evil things, for the sake of doing evil. Eats children as well : /.
I just find it quite queer that these ill-educated Southerners created a name so obscure like The Ku Klux Klan. I mean, we still don't know what it means, and we are only speculating on what it could be. Another question would be, who suggested such a name? And where did they get the idea from?

I've studied the Klan as well for comparitive analysis. I studied it from their view, neutral views and the opposing views. The name and robes also caught my attention. Read "The Fiery Cross" which you can order on Amazon.com. It was first created by afew men that were bored and wrestless inside a recession poor state. They formed the KKK as a weird club with occultish practices in graveyards and caverns. It was more of a club that played practical jokes on its neighbors and did dance rituals. It was meant as a comic relief club with strange gaggs. That was the original Klan. But Nathan Bedford Forrest (the Klans President) officially shut down the Klan when it became violent and far removed from his original ideas for the Klan.

If you check out The Knights Of The Ku Klux Klan (KKKK) website, it has literature you can order. The KKKK is the oldest group compared by other Klan groups and is the mildest one of the bunch- based on what the website says. The name (Ku Klux Klan) is not a copyrighted name. Anybody can use it- just like Baptist or Pentecost or Methodist. What the people do with the name is another matter however. Small Cell groups (Independant groups) in the Klan, had crap disturbers- every religion has 'em that give their movement a 'bad name'. These small independant Klan groups waved pistols around, assaulted minorities (Blacks (Niggers), White people who favoured Civil Rights (Carpet Baggers and/ or Scallawags) & Jews (Christ Killers), blew up black churches and lit houses and barns on fire.

The burning cross- a symbol infamous with the KKK, was a misused Icon that ended up in the hands of violent/ miseducated fanatics. The Cross symbolizes Christ. Fire symbolizes purity and the killing of impurity. Put together, the burning cross represents Christ burning through a world of darkness and despair. Just like the Swastika- a symbol that was ruined by the Nazis in WW 2, the Swastika was a cross that was around LONG before the Germans got their claws on it.
Not all Klansemen were or are violent. That is nonsense.

The KKK today still recruits people but at a young age- as young as thirteen (don't quote me on that one.). If it were not for the violent perpetrators of the Klan that gave it a bad name, the KKK would have been a much stronger identity today. Saying that you are part of the KKK, in whole or in part, is a BIG 'no no', nowadays. You stand the chance of getting the absolute tar beaten out of you by anybody- maybe even the police- who knows.? There are three huge powers in the KKK. There is "The Knights Of The Ku Klux Klan" (The most peaceful KKK body), "The Imperial Klans Of America" (Medium size body and more rough edged) and "The White Camelia Knights Of The Ku Klux Klan" (The largest body). The Knights Of The Ku Klux Klan is criticized by other Klan groups for being, as they deem it, "too soft" and "not tough enough" on Jews and visible (non white) minorities.

It wasn't until the 20th century when the Klan adopted the Christian belief system. The Christian body they identify with is known as The Christian Identity Movement- a 'whites only- no Jews' church. Nobody thought much about seeing a burning cross at night in a farmers field somewhere- until the 'violent fanatics' ruined it. I hope this info helps. I'm running out of characters.

Wisconsin

Not that it really matters in this discussion but the KKK also use the Scottish Lion Rampant Flag as thier own aswell.

This flag was used by the Jacobites during the rebellion in Scotland and guess who helped them out???

The good old Knights Templar.....

Now I ain't a genius, but if I put two and two together..... I can see a long standing connection appear here.

Originally posted by Pictnation
Not that it really matters in this discussion but the KKK also use the Scottish Lion Rampant Flag as thier own aswell.

This flag was used by the Jacobites during the rebellion in Scotland and guess who helped them out???

The good old Knights Templar.....

Now I ain't a genius, but if I put two and two together..... I can see a long standing connection appear here.

The Scottish symbolism in the KKK was introduced by Forrest. The word "klan" is derived from the Scottish "clan", and Forrest was of Scottish descent. The KKK's use of regalia from Scotland seems to have nothing to do with Knights Templar.

Nor did any Knights Templar help out the Jacobites.

Originally posted by Pictnation
Not that it really matters in this discussion but the KKK also use the Scottish Lion Rampant Flag as thier own aswell.

This flag was used by the Jacobites during the rebellion in Scotland and guess who helped them out???

The good old Knights Templar.....

Now I ain't a genius, but if I put two and two together..... I can see a long standing connection appear here.

Yes that's true. The "cross in the circle" was adopted from the Knights Templar to the Klan.

Wisconsin