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Combined Troop weapons

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posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 10:13 AM
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I have been studying combined weapons such as the M-16A2 with the M-203 and other stuff too.

Here are some of my ideas.

RPG 7 with MAC 10/PM-63 attached underneath in front of trigger for close quarters. RPG users would need this in the event of a close quater firefight.

Multi shot 40mm grenade launcher with MAC 10 fitted in front sideways like a 'sten gun'. Would suit Grenadiers/Officers although they use the 'Scarface Gun'.

M-16 with 12 guage shotgun underneath instead of 40mm. This actually does exist within SF units.

Any more ideas from you boyz out there?



M6D

posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 11:08 AM
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btw, the M16A2 or M4 with a 12 guage remington 870 fitted are called masterkey's, used in CQB, but perhaps maybe more practical ideas perhaps? although maybe a M249 with a M203 grenade launcher would be a bit comical :p



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by Browno
RPG 7 with MAC 10/PM-63 attached underneath in front of trigger for close quarters. RPG users would need this in the event of a close quater firefight.


RPG users never should be unprotected in a close quarter firefight
Thats one of the reasons why most dedicated antitank soldiers are never alone, they act in teams.
Apart from that you cannot use an RPG for fast target acquisition as a backup SMG would require, and you also cannot use most AT weapons in close quarters due to backblast. More feasible, effective AND lighter would be one of the various Carbine/Grenade launcher combinations out there.


Multi shot 40mm grenade launcher with MAC 10 fitted in front sideways like a 'sten gun'. Would suit Grenadiers/Officers although they use the 'Scarface Gun'.


A multi-shot grenade launcher is a specialized tool and the multi-shot capability is not sooooo useful as one would think (its not like they could release a barrage of grenades, first you need enough targets for that, and second the ammunition is heavy and the revolver takes FOREVER to reload in a firefight) For the rest, see above
(Why the MAC M10 fetish? Its not really known as an exceptionally light, accurate or otherwise good weapon...)


M-16 with 12 guage shotgun underneath instead of 40mm. This actually does exist within SF units.


Then it isnt your idea


[edit on 1/12/2005 by Lonestar24]



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 11:17 AM
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A concept I just thought of would be multi-ammunition weapon. The basic weapon would be of semi-auto shotgun outline, but with two magazine feeds. The magazines would hold different ammunition according to the situation and could carry either buckshot, incendiary slugs, non-lethal systems or fin-stabilized sabot rounds for extended range and AP capability.

The switch between ammunition types would require a selector switch and a recock of the weapon.



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 02:09 PM
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Actually dual feed shotgun has already been made, by south africans: Neostead





posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 02:22 PM
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I always liked the Filipino M-16/M-72 combo for the special forces. While not making either weapon particularly accurate, it gave each trooper a basic AT capability. I would like to see an updated version of this where both weapons could be used accurately.
Another idea would be a shotgun/flamethrower combination. This would be great in urban warfare and closequarters combat.



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by Lonestar24

Originally posted by Browno
RPG 7 with MAC 10/PM-63 attached underneath in front of trigger for close quarters. RPG users would need this in the event of a close quater firefight.


RPG users never should be unprotected in a close quarter firefight
Thats one of the reasons why most dedicated antitank soldiers are never alone, they act in teams.
Apart from that you cannot use an RPG for fast target acquisition as a backup SMG would require, and you also cannot use most AT weapons in close quarters due to backblast. More feasible, effective AND lighter would be one of the various Carbine/Grenade launcher combinations out there.


Multi shot 40mm grenade launcher with MAC 10 fitted in front sideways like a 'sten gun'. Would suit Grenadiers/Officers although they use the 'Scarface Gun'.


A multi-shot grenade launcher is a specialized tool and the multi-shot capability is not sooooo useful as one would think (its not like they could release a barrage of grenades, first you need enough targets for that, and second the ammunition is heavy and the revolver takes FOREVER to reload in a firefight) For the rest, see above
(Why the MAC M10 fetish? Its not really known as an exceptionally light, accurate or otherwise good weapon...)


M-16 with 12 guage shotgun underneath instead of 40mm. This actually does exist within SF units.


Then it isnt your idea


[edit on 1/12/2005 by Lonestar24]

I admit these are not really my ideas but the RPG-7 one with the MAC-10/PM-63/Skorpion attached underneath in front of the trigger section is. I came up with this becouse why should there be a crew to assist the RPG guy while the others can fight?.

Having a crew to assist the RPG-7 user would make him more noticeable in the field and if he operated the RPG himself, he would be more self sucsessful although he is still part of the squad.

The small SMG/PDW attached at the front is only for close quater self defence. The ammunition would save space/weight being pistol rounds while he also is carrying Rocket propelled grenades too. The SMG/PDW would be for self defence, The RPG is the main weapon.

The 6 round multishot grenade gun with the MAC-10 fitted sideways at the front like a 'Sten Gun' would also be a PDW too. This weapon would suit urban warfare riot situations more than military use maybe?.

Whatever suits the user/situation i suppose?.

The 'Scarface gun' is another nickname for the M-16 with M-203 installed underneath the barrel. Comes useful to the 'Man in charge' or SF Regiments. The HK OICW will be the new 'Scarface gun'.

Ok the RPG user should only be protected if he is using a big thing like a MILAN launcher or somthing like it but not a small thing like the RPG-7 or a LAW 66/80.

Why dont we have a 'Cobra Assault Cannon'. It is basically a Barrett M-82 with Explosive tipped rounds(Similar to the rounds on the Avenger gun used on the A-10, and a big block rangefinder sight added on the top. It would be carried round like a rifle and would be a good replacement for grenade launchers maybe?.

Guess the HK OICW does this job. Also it is lighter,less bulky and has an assault rifle installed in it.




[edit on 1-12-2005 by Browno]

[edit on 1-12-2005 by Browno]

[edit on 1-12-2005 by Browno]



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by Browno
I admit these are not really my ideas but the RPG-7 one with the MAC-10/PM-63/Skorpion attached underneath in front of the trigger section is. I came up with this becouse why should there be a crew to assist the RPG guy while the others can fight?.


Because a RPG is very delicate to fire. The gunner has to be totally focused on deciding the right angle of attack, calculating in target mvement speed, distance, wind drag. A distraction at any point duing this aiming process would most likely result in a miss (if it not point-blank distance). And that is not acceptable. Any enemy that is aware of an enemy RPG gunner will immediately try to take that gunner down. A RPG HAS to hit and kill with the first shot.


Having a crew to assist the RPG-7 user would make him more noticeable in the field and if he operated the RPG himself, he would be more self sucsessful although he is still part of the squad.


Either he is part of a squad as you say which means there IS someone else around him to protect, or he is alone which means that he is most probably DEAD.


The small SMG/PDW attached at the front is only for close quater self defence. ... The SMG/PDW would be for self defence, The RPG is the main weapon.


Again, you CANNOT properly aim and fire a SMG attached to a rocket launcher. this is simple mechanic physics. And RPGs should never be considered a main weapon.


The 6 round multishot grenade gun with the MAC-10 fitted sideways at the front like a 'Sten Gun' would also be a PDW too. This weapon would suit urban warfare riot situations more than military use maybe?.


"Urban warfare" implicates military use, and then we are again stuck with the limited usefulness of a multi-grenade launcher in combat I described earlier. And "riot control" again is never done alone, and especially the guys with the tear gas launchers are behind a first "line of defense" consisting of conventionally armed officers.


The 'Scarface gun' is another nickname for the M-16 with M-203 installed underneath the barrel. ...The HK OICW will be the new 'Scarface gun'.


No it wont be the "Scarface gun". The OICW project is cancelled until further notice. And BTW, the weapon officially is a product of Alliant Tech systems (ATK), and HK only the subcontractor.


Ok the RPG user should only be protected if he is using a big thing like a MILAN launcher or somthing like it but not a small thing like the RPG-7 or a LAW 66/80.


See above. The principles of successfully firing a RPG are basically similar to that of firing an ATGM - concentration is vital.


Why dont we have a 'Cobra Assault Cannon'. It is basically a Barrett M-82 with Explosive tipped rounds(Similar to the rounds on the Avenger gun used on the A-10, and a big block rangefinder sight added on the top. It would be carried round like a rifle and would be a good replacement for grenade launchers maybe?.


Nope. .50 BMG bullets do not offer enough room for an effective explosive charge AND a penetrator. After all, a full metal bullet weighs less than 50g. And I´d like to see the person that can shoot a 30mm Avenger round from a HANDHELD weapon


You know, the idea of merging differnt weapons itself is funny, but if you think about it again most concepts one could think of are next to useless in real combat situations.


M6D

posted on Dec, 2 2005 @ 01:10 AM
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Most often anyway, its only assualt rifles that these types of combinations work the best with, and theyre are loads of these 'scarface' guns, its nothing special, dozens of modern assualt rifles and even older ones like AK47's or 74s can mount grenade launchers.



posted on Dec, 2 2005 @ 09:05 AM
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The RPG-7 with the PDW fitted on the front, The whole Launcher will be held like a rifle when the PDW is fired.

The Russians 'Scarface gun' once had a pathetic grenade launcher installed on the AK rifles, I cannot remember the name of it but it was muzzle loaded and had a separate blank round to launch the bomb, maybe bolt action and had a magazine of blank rounds in the pistol grip. Those Russians must have found it very awkward in a firefight.

www.gowenmilitaria.com...

www.securityarms.com...

rusmilitary.com...

Now they use a better one called the GP-30. It is MUCH improved than the other one i mentioned above and matches the NATO 40MM M-203. It can only be fired when fitted to an AK rifle. Not sure how it is used but it looks muzzel loaded. In a way it is good becouse it is quicker to load than the M-203 by just cramming the bomb down the short muzzle and it does not leave spent cases behind.



I suppose the OICW is not a 'Scarface gun' becouse the 40MM weapons are still going to be used.

[edit on 2-12-2005 by Browno]


M6D

posted on Dec, 2 2005 @ 10:08 AM
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Ill make it clearer, it IS muzzle loaded :p however you dont need to call assualt rifle and nade launcher combos scarface guns :p AND its a lot clearer to people if you just call it M16 wM203 etc, scarface is kinda unessecary if you get my flow :p no ofense if you take it that way.



posted on Dec, 2 2005 @ 11:54 AM
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I guess it is clearer but it just that some squaddie on an army display told me the 'Scarface gun' was a nickname for the M-16 'n' M-203 weapon or anything similar to it.


M6D

posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 06:24 AM
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then again the name scarface gun would just be reffering to that particular combination then....



posted on Dec, 12 2005 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by Lonestar24
A concept I just thought of would be multi-ammunition weapon. The basic weapon would be of semi-auto shotgun outline, but with two magazine feeds. The magazines would hold different ammunition according to the situation and could carry either buckshot, incendiary slugs, non-lethal systems or fin-stabilized sabot rounds for extended range and AP capability.

The switch between ammunition types would require a selector switch and a recock of the weapon.


there is an M16 variant that uses AK mags. only about 5 were made for US SF when in Afganistan. good idea i think



posted on Dec, 12 2005 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by Codycougar91
there is an M16 variant that uses AK mags. only about 5 were made for US SF when in Afganistan. good idea i think


Are you referring to the SR-47?
I have seen it and test fired it.
Nice weapon and a good idea.



The weapons are based on the M-4/M-4A1 carbine variants of the M-16 assault rifle family, but fire the 7.62 x 39mm Soviet-designed cartridge and magazines used in the AK-47 assault rifle.









seekerof


[edit on 12-12-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Dec, 12 2005 @ 11:21 PM
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Yeah, I was infantry and carried M4/203 (most just call it a 203 because all they really attach to are M-4's). I was also in the 1/509th ABN and we were trained terrorists (we recreated the war zone, and fought the soldiers going to Iraq), and I was unit armorer for a long time and got to play with all the different weapons, and IMO the MAC10 is pure trash. It is not even close to accurate past 30-50 meters, and if you want a combo, here is one thats practical and effective. Just carry an assault rifle of your choice, preferrably an M4A2 with the 203 attached and all the toys. Then you can also carry an RPG slung across your back (they arent heavy)...so that has all your bases covered
I will give you points for imagination though...cool idea for the mac-10 mounted under the RPG though (if not practical), at least it's original.

[edit on 12-12-2005 by Brohaculo]



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof

Originally posted by Codycougar91
there is an M16 variant that uses AK mags. only about 5 were made for US SF when in Afganistan. good idea i think


Are you referring to the SR-47?
I have seen it and test fired it.
Nice weapon and a good idea.



The weapons are based on the M-4/M-4A1 carbine variants of the M-16 assault rifle family, but fire the 7.62 x 39mm Soviet-designed cartridge and magazines used in the AK-47 assault rifle.









seekerof


[edit on 12-12-2005 by Seekerof]




yes, great weapon. i am trying to get an Airsoft conversion kit for an M4



posted on Mar, 2 2006 @ 02:38 PM
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Found these, Interesting but what is the point of the first two?

Model 1
securityarms.com...

Model 2
securityarms.com...

Model 3
securityarms.com...

Model 5
securityarms.com...

Model 6
securityarms.com...

I do see the point of model 3 becouse the user for example might be short of 7.62 rounds so he uses the 9mm SMG as a substitute.

[edit on 2-3-2006 by Browno]



posted on Mar, 2 2006 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by Browno
RPG 7 with MAC 10/PM-63 attached underneath in front of trigger for close quarters. RPG users would need this in the event of a close quater firefight.



This might sound crazy but I use to know a gun shop owner and he had a Shotgun with a custom made MAC-10 Front grip. The MAC-10 cant be mounted directly underneath anything though since the MAC-10 cocks from the top. It has to be off set

But it can work and crazier things have been tried



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 12:36 PM
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It would have to be fitted in the 'Sten' fashion underneath the RPG/Anti tank weapon.

There is another version of the RPG 7 but with a longer barrel so it would be easier to fit the MAC 10/PDW or a UZI in front of the trigger housing.

A Sterling SMG could be useful for this since it has a side fed magazine

[edit on 3-3-2006 by Browno]



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