Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

Originally posted by nazgarn
You really think that emailing them for these supposedly classified documents will work? By law they have to give them to you?

Providing these documents exist:

1. They can easily deny it.
2. They can easily destroy it and deny it ever existed.
3. Someone asks for a classified document about the existance of aliens - you think it would be so easy to get one of the most life changing things in human history disclosed? Providing aliens do exist, I believe many people have died trying to present the information to the public or had their life royally turned upside down and inside out.
Yes, I agree with the above poster - it would put the Anonymous person in high danger when people unrelated to the story in any way start requesting information. Slow and methodical, carefully and use scrutiny.

I agree with nazgarn (hi, nazgarn!) and rdube02. We need to be careful upon what landmines we may tread, or boobytraps that go off in others' faces.

Previous FOIA requests on Serpo (which can hardly be convenient for the Powers that Be to handle – there must have been many before now) might be part of the very changed landscape that may have made life very difficult for Anon.

One reason I can think of may be that through FOIA a lot of people get into the loop from different USG departments, and questions get asked, and the entire carefully planned release goes out of control internally.

There are many hypotheses, but one is that the Serpo release was carefully orchestrated. There would have been no precedents to consult. They first chose Victor's list as a kind of "focus group" (a small sample to test public response). They could not have known about the website and the radio shows and the ATS Forum, and all the rest. It may have got too big too quickly, requiring them to damp it down (add some control rods to the chain reaction).

So they might not have anticipated a large number of FOIA requests which may already have been filed. (One interesting thing to research would be to ask how many other FOIA requests have been made on Serpo. That too should be available under FOIA. This is a serious suggestion.)

It's easy to understand how this could have made life really difficult for Anon and his (presumably minority) colleagues. This is a deliberate caricature, but imagine this:

MJ-1: Ok, guys, do this if you must, because it might help with the problem we've all got. But if it gets out of control, or gets too big too quickly, then we can it. This has gotta be a slow burn. Is that understood?

Anon: Yes, sir.

[later]

MJ-1: Look what you've done. I said go easy, but there's this website, and it's on every other damn forum and website too, and the guy's giving radio shows, and every spook is getting questions from his children, and the President is asking what's going on, and there are 5,000 FOIA requests which are driving everyone nuts and everyone's got their pants on fire asking me what's happening and is this all my doing. I say go quiet. Let it die down. No more posts, do you understand? Not for a while. We need to get this out, but I said S-L-O-W-L-Y. Do you understand?

Anon: Yes, sir. When should I resume posting?

MJ-!: I leave that up to you. Not for a few weeks. Maybe after a month or two, after most people have given up on it. We need to let the hysteria dissipate. Remember Orson Welles? This has to be S-L-O-W. And no more FOIA!!!

Best, Bill

[edit on 20-1-2006 by Bill Ryan]

[edit on 20-1-2006 by Bill Ryan]

I am following this thread already from the beginning and I still think we need to be a little more patient, as there could be lots of explanations why they didn’t posted the pictures yet. I still have faith in it.

In the mean time I was reading all the posts from Anonymous again and I was wondering in his first post why it took the Ebe’s 12 years to retrieve the bodies of their dead comrades. Was this because of that if was difficult to comunicate between Earth and the Ebe’s? Because one year after they retreived the bodies they established an exchange program and eveything seemed to go very fast. Or is there a simple explanation for?

Originally posted by rdube02

Good lord...

Good Lord is right.

Some of you are obviously not to familiar with this process. People submit FOIA requests all the time. It is our right as free people in this country to do so. UFO researchers do this all the time and request stuff with hundreds of keywords. It is like shooting in the dark, once in a while you get lucky.

Take a look at the work done at the Black Vault. These guys have the largest number of declassified documents that I know of, and continuously are searching for new released documents.

www.blackvault.com...

These requests can take weeks to process, so don't expect to hear anything about it for a while. I don't expect anything to come from the request I put in, but at least I'm not standing around doing nothing except excersizing my finger tips.

Maybe some of you are afraid to find out the truth.

So, let me get this straight, he won't go into detail about an "energy device" because he is concerned about national security implications. Yet he is willing to release what could possibly be classified documents without any concerns.

Hi, celticniall – my take on this is that if the energy device exists (and it's VERY similar to the description in Exempt from Dicslosure, p.167ff), then this poses a different kind of national security implication... which may have some validity.

I could understand it if the Powers that Be don't really want this (or enough information to research and build it) to fall into the hands of the Chinese – with whom the Americans have a behind-the-scenes "black hi-tech" race.

Energy is power, in every sense of the word. It's a rather different arena from just disclosing secrets about events that may have occurred 50 years ago. If this device exists, I can understand why it'd be classified... those that have access to this kind of advanced technology could rule the world economically.

Best, Bill

Keeping you guys informed: I'm about to hit an exceptionally busy period. Tomorrow I'm engaged in preparation for a (non-Serpo!) conference on Sunday, then on Monday I fly to the US for a week; my partner lives in California. So there'll be very little if anything from me probably until Tuesday, when I'll be online that day. After that I'll again be travelling around in the US. Saturday is another online day (this is the 28th, now) and on Sunday 29th I fly back to the UK. Just so you know I've not been silenced or abducted.

Best, Bill

Thread Is Now Re-Opened

Thank you for your patience, fine members of ATS.

I'm sorry if we caused alarm or undue speculation, but given the important of this information discussed in this thread, and the highly cautious nature with which we always approach items such as this, we thought it prudent to pause discussion while we examine some potentially very important information that may, or may not, alter the direction of this discussion.

In short, we now see no reason to alter the direction.

But I'm sure you're wondering what happened.

An observant member noticed an unusual and potentially alarming IP address in the header information of Mr. Ryan's emails. In the interest of ensuring credible discussion, and also lending a hand to our friend, we immediately began examining the implications of this information.

Several alternative explanations exist for the presence of the IP, foremost is the potential that Mr. Ryan is being observed and as we have come to know and respect him, we are very concerned about that.

An alternate explanation might include that Mr. Ryan is somehow someone other than he is portraying. I ask you to trust myself, Springer, and expert advisors we've consulted with that we are convinced this is not the case. We believe he is acting in the best interest of communicating this information for all our benefit.

In any event, we ask that speculation about this matter not occur in this thread. Please refocus this thread on examination of the story and its merits. I can assure you that any possible future additional information about the "Serpo Project" will rely heavily on the observed quality and maturity of the discussions here and elsewhere. We have every reason to believe we will hear more, and that the manner in which we move forward will dictate how much more.

Thank you, again, for your patience in this. Let's keep moving forward so that this story unfolds to its ending, so that we may understand what it all means.

I have read the postings on that site and kept up with this thread.
But something got me thinking today, this exchange took place in 1965?
Right?
And, i started to think of JFK and which president was acting at that time, forgive for not doing any research on his, but i thought i would post anyway.
So, was the "at the time" president in the loop?
Was Kennedy about to discuss this matter with the public?
Was the going to the moon a pretense to actually having a exchange program, and he was biding his time for the best bit?

Maybe im really wrong about making the connection with the goverment, but the posts dont seem to discuss this side of it much, or am i wrong?

Kennedy was killed in '63
Johnson was president from 63 to 68

no link

All this started a long time before that.
How many presidents knew about this?
As all this took place over a number of years.

my bad, I thought you were asking if kennedy was going to go public about serpo, which might be the reason for his murder.

This all stemmed from Roswell or around that time.then it was arranged over a number of years for this final out come right?
So there has been a few presidents in that time.

How many knew, Did one of them want a part or whole disclosure, there's my Kennedy tie in.

Not to change the subject ongoing, but adding what knowledge I can find out about the Suns of Reticuli:

This will take some effort if anyone wants to look at all the data presented.
This data from only 2 Catalogs give information concerning the Reticuli Suns compared to our Sun:

First one seems to be an Iron comparison perhaps (but is a study done) and the second listing is more elements compared between our Sun and Reticuli Suns:

I have not had a chance to really know all the data and elements contained within the Catalogs' data, but nonetheless, it is the data that we do know about concerning the Reticuli Suns.

First links are an instersting place --- that is listing finding Planets -- although I think it concerns Planets around the size of Jupiter so far or so.

Nonetheless -- there in the Summary link page are 156 planets!

Planets search place: (Interesting but no data for Zeti 1 or 2 Reticuli)
The Geneva Extrasolar Planet Search Programmes
obswww.unige.ch...
obswww.unige.ch...
obswww.unige.ch...


Next is data concerning the two Suns of Reticuli and elements within those Suns:

First the main link:
Then looking up the individual two Suns of Reticuli, the Catalogs used (out of many listed), anyone can use and look all day at:
The two Catalogs used contain -- chemical elements data:

U.S. National Virtual Observatory
www.us-vo.org...

Look up: (Used HD numbers for Zeta 1 & 2 Reticuli -- HD20766 and HD20807)
irsa.ipac.caltech.edu...

----List of Catalogs just for Zeta 1 Reticuli (same for Zeta 2)
Zeta 1 Reticuli Catalog Coverage: (LHS 171) (all the catalogs that contain data)
irsa.ipac.caltech.edu...

Out of the many Catalogs where data can be looked up for the Reticulum stars:
(First Catalog used -- show amount of Iron type data for Suns compared with our Sun - Fe is Iron - rest I am not sure about -- H may be Hydrogen perhaps)
Catalog used: (checkbox clicked on to show data)(down in list towards bottom)
Catalog Name:
[Fe/H] for 98 extra-solar planet-host stars (Santos+, 2004)
Stars with planets and derived stellar parameters (HD number between 1 and 60000)

Explains the data:
vizier.u-strasbg.fr.../A+A/415/1153/suns

Image region of Zeta 1:
irsa.ipac.caltech.edu... %2FJ.A%2BA.415.1153.suns%3A1&catlist=%2Fwork%2FTMP_AAAP.aizo%2FQuickStats_Q.aizo%2Fcatlist.dat

Results page for Catalog used for Zeta 1:
vizier.u-strasbg.fr.../A+A/415/1153/suns&-c.eq=J2000&-c.geom=r&-out.max=9999&-out.form=HTML%20Table&-out.add=_RAJ2000,_DE J2000&-out.add=_r&-oc.form=deg&-out.add=_RAJ%2C_DEJ&-c=49.442350+-62.575320&-c.eq=J2000&-c.r=0.083333&-c.u=deg&-c.geom=r&-sort=_r

Record for Zeta 1:
vizier.u-strasbg.fr.../A%2bA/415/1153/suns&recno=131

Zeta 1:
cmp c [c] Comparison sample (in table5 only)
HD 20766 HD number
m_HD Multiplicity index on HD
n_HD [bc] Note on HD (Note 1)
Teff 5733 K Effective temperature
e_Teff 31 K rms uncertainty on Teff
logg 4.55 [cm/s2] Spectroscopic surface gravity
e_logg 0.10 [cm/s2] rms uncertainty on logg
Vt 1.09 km/s Microturbulence
e_Vt 0.06 km/s rms uncertainty on Vt
[Fe/H] -0.21 [Sun] Derived metallicity
e_[Fe/H] 0.04 [Sun] rms uncertainty on [Fe/H]
N(FeI) 37 Number of FeI lines used in the analysis
N(FeII) 7 Number of FeII lines used in the analysis
e_N(FeI) 0.03 rms around the mean [FeI/H] values
e_N(FeII) 0.04 rms around the mean [FeII/H] values
Inst [1] Instrument, or avg for averaged values (Note 2)
Mass 0.93 solMass Stellar mass
loggHIP 4.51 [cm/s2] Surface gravity based on Hipparcos parallax (trigonometric gravity)

Zeta 2 Reticuli Catalog Coverage: (LHS 172)
irsa.ipac.caltech.edu...

Done above process for Zeta 2 from point of Catalog Used:
Record for Zeta 2:
vizier.u-strasbg.fr.../A%2bA/415/1153/suns&recno=133

Zeta 2:
cmp c [c] Comparison sample (in table5 only)
HD 20807 HD number
m_HD Multiplicity index on HD
n_HD [bc] Note on HD (Note 1)
Teff 5843 K Effective temperature
e_Teff 26 K rms uncertainty on Teff
logg 4.47 [cm/s2] Spectroscopic surface gravity
e_logg 0.10 [cm/s2] rms uncertainty on logg
Vt 1.17 km/s Microturbulence
e_Vt 0.06 km/s rms uncertainty on Vt
[Fe/H] -0.23 [Sun] Derived metallicity
e_[Fe/H] 0.04 [Sun] rms uncertainty on [Fe/H]
N(FeI) 37 Number of FeI lines used in the analysis
N(FeII) 7 Number of FeII lines used in the analysis
e_N(FeI) 0.03 rms around the mean [FeI/H] values
e_N(FeII) 0.04 rms around the mean [FeII/H] values
Inst [1] Instrument, or avg for averaged values (Note 2)
Mass 0.94 solMass Stellar mass
loggHIP 4.45 [cm/s2] Surface gravity based on Hipparcos parallax (trigonometric gravity)

Results page for Catalog used for Zeta 2: (link like used for Zeta 1 Reticuli - just listed below - info above)
vizier.u-strasbg.fr.../A+A/420/183/table3&-c.eq=J2000&-c.geom=r&-out.max=9999&-out.form=HTML%20Table&-out.add=_RAJ2000,_D EJ2000&-out.add=_r&-oc.form=deg&-out.add=_RAJ%2C_DEJ&-c=49.442350+-62.575320&-c.eq=J2000&-c.r=0.083333&-c.u=deg&-c.geom=r&-sort=_r

Second Catalog used for data:
Diffferent Catalog used now: (this time a different catalog used -- shows many regions of elements compared to our Sun) (below - Catalog Name) (Checkedbox marked to show data)
Catalog Name:
Spectroscopic survey in solar neighborhood (Allende Prieto+ 2004) (down in list towards bottom again)

Zeta2:
vizier.u-strasbg.fr...

Zeta 1:
vizier.u-strasbg.fr...
Both of the above Catalogs down near bottom of all the Catalogs listed that contain data for Suns!

That is all I have time for today, but both Suns seem pretty close to our Sun.
And it seems Zeta 2 Reticuli contains a bit more mass (compared to our Sun) then Zeta 1 Reticuli.
Plus -- I am not sure what all the data means so far yet, but data is data, and it is data comparing our Sun with those two Suns there.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Thread Is Now Re-Opened

Thank you for your patience, fine members of ATS.

Hi Skeptic,

thanks for the clean bill of health and for allowing this thread to continue, it's good know you're up there looking after ours and Mr Ryan's interests while discussing Serpo on this forum.

Best Wishes

J

Originally posted by Centrist
Finally, since I don't expect those of you who don't know me to take my word for it without anything to back it up, I'll post something tonight which puts things in a little perspective (something I haven't even discussed with Bill yet) that makes me wonder what's going on. No, it's not proof that Serpo is true... but suggests to me that this whole story is worth keeping an eye on, regardless of whether it's true or not.

Centrist

p.s. I know this will be quoted ad infinitum if I don't make good on this promise. I'd post it now, but I don't have the information I need here.

[edit on 19-1-2006 by Centrist]

Centrist,
Do you have the information yet, or did I just miss it. I been trying hard to read every post, but it's insane how fast this thread is growing!

so, if its that big of news! and someone is on the run! they can crash at my place. I'm an excellent cook..and I have Sovereign rights!

in otherwords "I'm willing to help anyway I can"

[edit on 20-1-2006 by waffleprime]

Centrist's information is one of the pieces of data we were analyzing today that caused the tmporary pause of this threa. Read back to my post... All is well (for now).


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Posted Via ATSmobile (BETA v0.3)


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I'd just like to mention that Paul R. Hill (now deceased), an ex-NASA scientist that worked on building flying platforms in the 1950's, references flight to Zeta Reticuli as examples twice in his book Unconventional Fying Objects: a scientific analysis, on pages 256-257 and 327-328.

www.amazon.com...

What's the big deal you say? Well Mr. Hill points out that travel time to Zeta 1 would take a little over 7 months at .9999 the speed of light depending on how fast you accelerate to .9999 of c and how fast you decelerate. So the travel time of 9 months as stated by Anon to Zeta 1 is a pretty good guess. Did he borrow from Mr. Hill? Mr. Hill's reasoning for using Zeta as an example is because of the Betty and Barney hill star map that appears to point to Zeta 1 and 2 as the home of their alien abductors.

The only problem, as Mr. Hill states, is that back on Earth those 7-9 months would end up being over 37 years based on relativity. I guess if the EBENs could jump out of "our time" into another time to travel that distance then maybe Anon's story would make sense.

Paul Hill's book is very well received by both skeptic and believer (5 stars) so I suggest reading it if you want a little "meat" with your UFO potatoes.

[edit on 1-20-2006 by Boogie] crappy spelling

[edit on 1-20-2006 by Boogie]

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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Centrist's information is one of the pieces of data we were analyzing today that caused the tmporary pause of this threa. Read back to my post... All is well (for now).


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Posted Via ATSmobile (BETA v0.3)


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That's what I thought might have been the case. Thanks for clearing that up!

i've heard some nasty rumours, alarming even, if they are true.

bill, are you sure you know what you're email headers are reading?