Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

Originally posted by smallpeeps

yourworstnightmare said:
I encourage anyone now, to get a zoologist who is expert about "sustainable populations" data to comment on the Serpo data about animals--especially what could be expected to be eye-witnessed on a planet-sized area. (Using the planet Earth as a guide that indeed has life, you can see that the DIA birds didn't do their homework in this dept. when creating their Serpo animal section of the disinformation product). In essence, the response will be that there are too few creatures eye-witnessed, and that includes the insect population as well. The number of large animal species (rat-sized or larger) should have numbered at least in the eye-witnessed hundreds, and ditto a similar amount for insects at the very minimum. This is one of the glaring faults that the DIA CI writers didn't pay enough attention to (but of course, will attempt to address in the future, I guarantee you, now that it has been pointed out).

I thought about this also. There'd be many, many insects, no-see-ums, bugs, rodents. They'd have volumes of biological data, IMO.

Of course they'll now say, "Oh, we didn't include that because it seemed minor" or something like that. Surely it'll now be addressed, just like yourworstnightmare says above.

yourworstnightmare: friend, this thread needs you to lend some sense to it, please. Keep posting, I'm begging ya!

According to the story, SERPO is a colony world of the Eben's (their homeworld made uninhabitable due to widespread volcanic activity). There is no information in the story as to whether or not SERPO's wildlife is native or was introduced by the Ebens and represents the best the Ebens could do at creating a livable world for themselves. Furthermore, yourworstnightmare assumes that the sophistication and diversity of SERPO's biosphere should be similar in scope to Earth's. According to science, Earth's biosphere has gone through many contractions and expansions in the last several hundred million years. Perhaps SERPO experienced a contraction. Perhaps the Eben's interplanetary war nearly exterminated the biosphere on SERPO and the Ebens have been recovering it as best they could since then. We don't know, more information is needed.

I predict Zep Tepi will tear "yourworstnightmare" a new one

Great work in advance Zep!



[edit on 17-1-2006 by Unplugged]

What I find intriguing (assuming I read correctly) is the fact that Victor supposedly communicates with his sources using WebTV, has mentioned that emails are deleted automatically every 90 days or so right?

But if operating out of Cali, he's most likely using MS's WebTV (aka: msn tv) and they clearly state users receive over 2gb of storage to save emails, photos, etc...
www.webtv.com...

Not sure why he would say that emails get deleted, possible he's not using msntv or it's incorrectly configured...or maybe an excuse to why he can't provide them as proof.

Just a thought

Originally posted by yourworstnightmare
I decided to post here because what this Serpo story is, in its basic essence, a "disinformation product." Most are probably not aware of this concept, and what it means. So I felt it might be of utility, to--as like Bill--provide as complete information as I can within the parameters that can be worked with.

WOW!
Umm, Gee, thanks for this in depth dissertation of this completely foriegn topic of "Disinformation". This concept is almost out of grasp for me *rolls eyes so far back into my head that I see what I'm really thinking*.
Seriously though, I am completely sure the dis-information subject has been brushed over many times.
If you have read through this thread in its entirety you will come across this idea more than once.
It is a completely valid argument, but please don't present it like you invented the concept.
Sorry, but this kind of arrogance and egotism just burns me.
Sorry again for the rant. I am sure "yourworstdaydream" is a nice person, an is obviously smart (he's tried his darndest to prove that), but I've devoted alot of free time to this thread because this subject is important to me.
Regards,
J - DefunCtion

Originally posted by torbjon
Hey Bill Ryan:

You’re getting rather popular over this, aintcha? *nudge nudge* Publishing articles in magazines, goin’ on lecture tours…. making any money offa this yet?

Not a penny. But, hey, why would you believe me?

Separately: yourworstnightmare did contact me before on the website contact form, in mid-December. I wrote back to him immediately, but he never replied. I don't know why he contacted me then, or contacted the thread now; he seems to prefer to make strong, almost angry, statements, but not enter into dialog.

He's clearly an intelligent man with some considerable experience of black ops, and strong opinions to match. However, I disagree with his views. There's way too much to suggest that something like this did actually happen. That's the prime issue here... not whether 100% of the story is true, or 90%, or 80%. As I wrote to Salla, even 10% truth would be sensational.

For this reason I think that focusing on small elements of the story, although interesting, are probably unproductive. I stopped doing that a while ago: it's obvious that there's not enough description of the biosphere – or many other things. We don't even know yet what the Ebens look like!

As I mentioned to Salla, the account is a sitting duck to pick holes in and take potshots at. What I think is more challenging, interesting and worthwhile is to look for the consistencies and links to other known events and phenomena... my approach from very soon after I got involved. It's easy to dismiss. It's harder – but potentially infinitely more valuable to the human race – to show how this could have been based on real events.

Best, Bill

Originally posted by yourworstnightmare
I am hoping that this will end up being my first, and last, posting here.

Why bother to write such an informative piece and then hope to not have to respond to it? Maybe we should declare you our new leader and take everything you say below as gospel - No questions asked, eh?

I am glad that Bill is attempting to display information about this Serpo story to the best of his ability. That is good. As complete an effort made to disclose material is laudable.

I think mostly everyone on this thread agrees with you there.

But I wholly disagree with his interpretations, and with what most of the people who post on this site believe this Serpo story to be.

I'm not actually sure "most of the people who post on this site" believe this story to be true at all. I'm guessing you haven't read the entire thread. Am I corrrect?

It deals with the submission of a highly ficitious story with many "wild" (and unproveable elements), which is viewed with nearly 100% credulity by too many of the posters here whom I would term the "True Believers."

Is fictious the same as fictitious? Sorry, I couldn't resist
Again, you are assuming to know the mindset of the posters here. I'm guessing that even one believer is one too many for your good self?

I think that the readership here has already pointed out a large number of glaring errors and related items in this story, and that this should give everyone pause. I will not need to re-point these out.

Oh! Look at that... He HAS read the thread!

I decided to post here because what this Serpo story is, in its basic essence, a "disinformation product." Most are probably not aware of this concept, and what it means. So I felt it might be of utility, to--as like Bill--provide as complete information as I can within the parameters that can be worked with.

You don't have a high opinion of the people here, do you? Let me see, Disinformation I think we're all clear what this means. Yep, pretty basic stuff around these parts. Product Hmm, that's a toughie!

Disinformation products are put together for the purpose of misleading a targeted audience. The intention of misleading may be simply to have the audience "chase their own tails" while monitoring how highly suspect and incredible information is internalized by the targeted audience, and how it is further disseminated; or there might be a multi-prong purpose at some multi-level effort to use the disinformation product for an ulterior motive.

The Serpo story is probably being used in both manners. And it is being used in both manners by what I would term "Bored-DIA-employees-with-too-much-discretionary-funding-under-the-CI-rubric."

Thanks for the education. Oh look, there's your first "pop" at the DIA.

There is a time and a place for disinformation products to be used. They are best used during times of War. The problem is, the disinformation product here--the Serpo Story--is being wielded not in a time of War. And the excuse of a re-burgeoning "Cold War" with both the Chinese and the Russians is what I think has been the basis of trotting out this BS once again. And it is totally unadulterated BS.

Eh? What do you base THAT on? Thats some ingenious logic if you ask me.

I think that if approximately $4 million was cut out of about two or three DIA sub-markers in their budget, then this Serpo story and its related stuff would probably evaporate permanently. With the on-going GWOT, as well as the Iraq conflict, this might yet happen. (One can only hope.) I was told by one of my colleagues that perhaps a phone call should be made to Rumsfeld and the whole Serpo stuff would just evaporate from lack of funding. And those unbrilliant DIA people who concocted this stuff would have to be re-assigned.

Two more 'pops' at the DIA. That makes three, so far.

Just keep in mind this. IF the Serpo story was indeed fact. Then "Anonymous" and anyone else with connections to this story would find themselves and their asses being hauled off to jail. Period. No arguments. If materials are indeed classified as Top Secret with several code words after them, or something in the alleged "above" range (not really, but I think they might mean cryptographic levels, which someone told them about incompletely), then leaking such material to anyone not cleared is a guarantee of having your ass hauled off to jail. (Unlike the present NSA spying on US citizens story, where it appears that some felt that whistleblowing was necessary to preserve the Republic, there is no such basis nor motivation where the Serpo disinformation product is concerned.)

Now that DOES make sense. Well done.

UFOs and the associated subjects of intelligent life on other worlds, etc. are indeed intellectually beguiling topics for most people. And especially for college-educated people. And also especially for college-educated people in the sciences and in technology applications (such as aerospace). And also even especially for college-educated people in the sciences and technology applications (read engineers) that have Security Clearances.

This is where the disinformation products come in. We have enemies (that is, the USA). These enemies are at present have a growth pattern that might eventually lead to physical belligerency against the USA. Some of the patterns include full efforts at conducting espionage against technology and science-related items of the USA, that if compromised and stolen, would reduce or even severely hamper the ability of the USA to conduct itself as a free country, and to to use the full force of its will during conflicts.

Many of the Security-cleared engineers and scientists like to discuss UFOs and intelligent life on other worlds and the possibilities extant therein. (It's fun to do--better than talking about filling out tax forms, or your wife's latest maladies.) Chinese agents and Russian agents make it their bread and butter to attempt to get into contact with such people so that they can do their jobs--that is, compromise and steal items that would make the USA less able to conduct itself as a free country, or to use the full force of its will during conflicts.

Ah, so because these people are discussing Serpo, they are MORE likely to pass on secrets to the enemy? [sarcasm]Yeah, makes sense to me.[/sarcasm]

The unbrilliant birds at the DIA (yes, I strongly feel that these bored employees in the CI section are wasting your and my tax dollars) who cooked up this Serpo Story stuff probably made the case that this listserv and other elements of it here at the "Above Top Secret Conspiracy Community" probably was an apropos "wateringhole" to spring/insert/inoculate the disinformation product into. And see who would comment, and who would counter-comment, etc. And all the while monitor where the Internet hits were coming from--from what foreign countries while these discussions relating to the disinformation product--The Serpo Story" were on-going.

There's another 'pop'. You're slacking mister, that's twice you've used "unbrilliant" when describing the DIA. You HAVE got a problem with these people, haven't you?

other stuff snipped
I brought this up off-site with Bill. The entire thing about the number of animals eye-witnessed and insects eye-witnessed on Serpo. So few creatures on an entire planet that was able to be explored over a very lengthy period of time (years, yes?) by the human explorers was a very large red flag. I encouraged Bill then, and I encourage anyone now, to get a zoologist who is expert about "sustainable populations" data to comment on the Serpo data about animals--especially what could be expected to be eye-witnessed on a planet-sized area. (Using the planet Earth as a guide that indeed has life, you can see that the DIA birds didn't do their homework in this dept. when creating their Serpo animal section of the disinformation product). In essence, the response will be that there are too few creatures eye-witnessed, and that includes the insect population as well. The number of large animal species (rat-sized or larger) should have numbered at least in the eye-witnessed hundreds, and ditto a similar amount for insects at the very minimum. This is one of the glaring faults that the DIA CI writers didn't pay enough attention to (but of course, will attempt to address in the future, I guarantee you, now that it has been pointed out).

Some good stuff there. Then again, maybe the planet used to be uninhabited and they just happened to bring along their favourite animals from the EBEN homeworld? I don't know if this is what happened, as you do not know what you say to be true for a planet in another star system.

Another couple of elements that were glaringly suspect are the data on religon used by the natives on Serpo, as well as its games played by its children. (I guarantee you if there were truly an alien intelligence we have met, their religous practices as well as their recreational practices would be nothing like what we humans do.)

Please explain why you can guarantee this. Met a lot of alien races, have you?

There are no "factions" at the DIA attempting to have some sort of colloquy or more physical "fist fight" in attempting to provide more, or to rescind, further information about this Serpo story. This is just a disinformation product that has been released to you, and they are monitoring/gauging your reactions.

Well, isn't that nice. Hi DIA agents, how's this for a reaction: Gauge THAT!
It must have been something I ate LOL

You have now been informed. True Believers and those that think this whole thing is just total bunk.

Thanks for the service. We can all go home now. Our leader has spoken

Please don't expect photographs of alien beings posing with American military personnel while standing on an alien world to be released. No such photographs exist. I think that's a fairly safe bet.

Oh, I thought you had finished. I guess you're just following-through...

I will not respond to inquiries. Nor will I post anything further on the Serpo disinformation product.

Bye then. Have a really nice day!



[edit on 17-1-2006 by Zep Tepi]

Yourworstnightmare joins and makes one post......hmmmmmm.....While raising some excellent points and phrasing it so nicely, I can't help but think how HE sounds like a disinfo agent himself. Trying to throw some water on the little fire we got going here. Practically urging us to give up on it. Well, I'm waiting for awhile longer. I've got nothing but time. Yourworst may be correct. But I can't buy his reasoning no more than Serpo. At least Serpo may produce some more evidence. Yourworst offers only advice. I'll wait awhile longer.......

[edit on 17-1-2006 by Jeddyhi]

[edit on 17-1-2006 by Jeddyhi]

Originally posted by yourworstnightmare
You have now been informed. True Believers and those that think this whole thing is just total bunk.

Please don't expect photographs of alien beings posing with American military personnel while standing on an alien world to be released. No such photographs exist. I think that's a fairly safe bet.

I will not respond to inquiries. Nor will I post anything further on the Serpo disinformation product.

Coward.

What are YOUR credentials for issuing "definitive" statements without PROOF???? Who are you? What is your background that makes you such an expert in disinformation? What makes you think your post deserves to be taken seriously without any indication of what you are basing your OPINION on?

You are entitled to your OPINION. But please, do not lecture here. This forum deserves better.

Chelseafan1?
EBE1?
yourworstnightmare?

...someone really hates this thread. I don't know if they're the same person but they all certainly have a guerilla attitude towards posting info. I wonder how many more supposed "new" members will soon be posting similar views?

I do however have to agree about talking to Carl Sagan's wife, Ann Druyan. She certainly would not admit to such a thing as Serpo being true, but I would like to here her opinion on this. She also has ties to CSICOP so I doubt she would be sympathetic towards the Serpo story.


Thanks Bill for the posting to Salla and his response. If they agree to you posting it here, I'd like to hear what any other UFO researchers have said about Serpo.


[edit on 1-17-2006 by Boogie]

Bill Ryan:

Actually, you've answered alla my questions pretty straight, I think. I have no reason Not to believe you...

not that I'm a blind Ryanite or anything *laughs* but I'm glad you're here and taking the time to chat with us.



As an aside; you Should make a buck or two off the magazine article... you've done the leg work, you've earned it, and gods know They are gonna profit off it.

Careful with fame though... people are fickle.

rock on
twj

I think Yourworst... (YWNM) makes a valid case for the disinformation theory.

One of the possibilities is this story was released for the sole purpose of mathematically modeling the information flow. This would be valuable knowledge to posess in this day and age, I imagine. I think it would be fascinating to visually observe the dissemination of information pertaining to an event of such significance, and I would think much can be learned from such an exercise.

However, I find it interesting that while the December and January web logs are well-peppered with visits from the DIA, there is not a single visit in November. If this was in fact an orchestrated disinformation campaign, would not someone have been monitoring this project before December? Would we have not also seen at least one visit in the month after someone created a web site dealing with the subject matter? Or, as someone else suggested, were these visits simply by interested individuals pursuing topics of personal interest?*

Nonetheless, YWNM is correct in his assertion we should take pause. Remember, unless the Serpo story is 100% accurate and true, word-for-word, it is then at least partially untrue, is it not? What better way to discredit a credible story then to seed it with untruths?

And there is indeed enough questionable data to allow for a high degree of plausible deniability.

Yet there are just enough signposts to indicate that (at least) the core of the story may be at least partially true. These include the quasi-endorsements by former (maybe current?) DIA/OSI officials who claim there was indeed an alien exchange program that took place.

Maybe there are issues forcing the issue of disclosure? Maybe, with the release and popularization of Heim's Quantum Theory paper (which described a FTL propulsion system and won an AIAA award last year) by German and Austrian scientists, the government has realized that foreign scientists are working on technologies which would portend a second space race, at which time Disclosure would be out of their control?

Or maybe this simply represents another effort at dividing and confusing the UFO community...

But the one tool we are armed with is our collective ability to reason. And while we can't necessarily prove any of Serpo is true, if we can disprove the hypothesis that it all of it is true, then we can eliminate one possibility, thereby getting us one step closer to the truth.

And who knows... What if someone on ATS was able to mathematically demonstrate a stable orbit for Serpo in the binary system and meeting the conditions described by Anon? Wouldn't that set off fireworks!

Maybe YWNM doesn't understand the ATS demographic as well as he thinks he does. I'm not aware of too many members going on record as having staked their tents in one camp or the other with any sense of certainty.

Of interest to me is YWNM's mention of having contacted Bill off site back in mid-December. But he waits until now to post? What could have triggered his response?

I also found YWNM's mention of aerospace engineers to be interesting. In reviewing the web logs, there were quite a few visits from at least one large defense contractor (there are many more I never checked)... Could this have been intended as an implicit warning to these people?

In the end, if anything, the circumstances surrounding YWNM's post, along with its content, seem to only further validate there is at least some significance to the release of the Serpo story, even if it leaves us no closer to the truth.






*Regarding the suggestion that the 31 visits from the DIA simply represented interested individuals researching topics of personal interest from DIA terminals and servers, I find this rather unlikely, considering DIA employees' web traffic is most likely closely monitored.

I will say one thing. At least this has more meat to it then our dear nutjob Prophet Yawae.

As i said before

"the cat is dead"

Originally posted by pharolitosWhat I find intriguing (assuming I read correctly) is the fact that Victor supposedly communicates with his sources using WebTV, has mentioned that emails are deleted automatically every 90 days or so right?

But if operating out of Cali, he's most likely using MS's WebTV (aka: msn tv) and they clearly state users receive over 2gb of storage to save emails, photos, etc...
www.webtv.com...

Not sure why he would say that emails get deleted, possible he's not using msntv or it's incorrectly configured...or maybe an excuse to why he can't provide them as proof.

Just a thought

Yes, this was one aspect of Bill's recent ATS podcast (great interview by the way) I found disturbing. It's so simple..surely I am missing some of the wider picture. Emails via Victor's WebTV are deleted within 96 hours. Email attachments (such as photos) are unable to be received. Well this kills the Serpo story right there. Perhaps Anonymous had all the pics ready to send, ready to go - only to be blocked by the WebTV email settings! That would be an absolute tragedy if that were the case. If I were Victor, I'd rush off to the nearest department store and get a cheap Dell, at least for the sake of saving and downloading these precious emails. If this happens to be the story of the century, surely it's worth it just to buy a half-decent pc to do the job?! Or is this just too simple and I'm missing something here? I for one surely wouldn't persist in messing around with a half-assed 'web tv' if such a hot potato fell into my hands!

Who in hell would use a system (WebtV) from a company (MS) that is known for there incopetence regarding security. Remember the hacked hotmail accounts? Rent your own dedicated server for 5 USD per month, setup multiply pop3 email accounts, protected by hardware firewall and you are fine.

No auto-delete, no hacking.

For me, this "my emails got deleted !!!" is just a poor try to execuse and to let the "cat die".

It was a fake before and its a fake now. Dont believe it and most important STOP CREATING A HYPE!

Not to worry!

Out of 183 papers mainly in Astrophysics turned into this place from around the World, there is not a single one about Zeta 1 or 2 Reticuli!

Not a single paper!

None!

arxiv.org...

In Mathematical Physics, there are no papers either about Zeta 1 & 2 Reticuli!

arxiv.org...

But again, I have not been to an AAS meeting either, so I can not discuss anything about the recent 200 speakers there either! I just think like there are these meetings in these fields of study, and gees:

Sometimes, people from all over the World in that Field of Study, may be invited or make it there to one of those meetings!

And I do know one thing though -- I don't even have time to read all of those papers, as well as find out -- where all the meetings are taking place, and everything that may be discussed in Astrophysics, Gravity, Magnetism, Mathematical Physics because:

I am dizzy!

However, I am rotating on Planet Earth right now, and it is an oscillating platform, and believe it or not, the Sun is not really moving throughout the day and night, it is this planet rotating, although the Sun is moving in the Galaxy, along with the entire Solar System, and that darn Sol Sun is dragging us all along!

And even though I think I am sitting still, I am just moving around 1860 miles/hr rotating on this Planet!

I am just dizzy!

However, there still may be people who don't even think about Spacetime and the Galaxy at all on this planet yet. That I am sure of!

Even if they read the News about a comet that was just passed or stardust just collected by a returned spacecrash, I am sure that most people on this Planet, have no idea what is being discussed about any of it, including -- Planet Serpo or Zeta 1 & 2 Reticuli. If asked if there were any stars by that name -- they would not even know! If someone pointed out the constellation Reticulum, they would still ask -- Where is it?

And I am sure, that in the end, they all would be dizzier than I am!

Whoa -- Planet Earth!
Whoa!

I think some people are getting space sick on our Spaceship -- Planet Earth!

And the Galaxy is not going to slow down either moving through SpaceTime.
But it won't get there for another 300-400 million years!

Where is that?
Oh, somewhere around the Virgo Super Cluster Strings of Galaxies.
Will those Super Cluster Strings of Galaxies be there when our Galaxy gets there?

No, they will have moved also in SpaceTime! In fact when we get there in another 300-400 million years -- there will be nothing there -- everything will have moved!

I have to go now, since I am really dizzy now!
Whoa!

Anyone for some humor though?

Hey Bill Ryan, do you think you could get anonymous to release any technical details about bismuth and how it can be made to do strange stuff (not just float in a magnetic field)? I have seen enough about bismuth to believe it can make anti-grav effects and before I go out and buy the stuff I want to know how good my chances are.

I think if any strange unknown effect was disclosed even if its not useful, it could prove somethings really going on, since it could be tested over and over. Personally, I feel disclosure with no new ET visits or new tech would not matter anyway since theres nothing you could really use, other then to say "told you so".

Hi, new here although been watching for over a year now. I've been following the Serpo tale since the beginning and I have one question. Why, when he has posted so knowledgably on the ufo subject have we heard so little from Gazrok on this matter. I would value his opinion.

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
There's way too much to suggest that something like this did actually happen. That's the prime issue here... not whether 100% of the story is true, or 90%, or 80%. As I wrote to Salla, even 10% truth would be sensational.

After reading through the Serpo information and also this whole thread I completely agree with what Bill says here.

Many people will take the information at face value and make a judgement based on the story as a whole, it really needs to be dissected and seperated into which elements are real and which are fake/disinformation.

Obviously this is a difficult, if not impossible task but maybe some sections of the serpo posts can easily be discarded as fake/disinfo therefore leaving us to concentrate purely on the parts that could be true.

People, "overly skeptic" tend to come on here and post regarding that its fools quest...going over the information again and again....long time viewers of this..know the possibilities...know it well most likely is fake. but, were giving the benefit of the doubt...and I don't see why some post pointless long-winded post saying were all totally nuts, for beleiving this...when we damned well know the fact that it probabally is fake...were just going over the information to be completly positive...to know....what if we come up with information that proves it isn't? man, it just totally nerve wracking to see some people misjudge the people on the site..