Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

Originally posted by rdube02

Thanks Anglo - that's the first question that entered my mind after reading Bill's great response. I can absolutely imagine the reality of two factions developing over time within the intel community regarding disclosure/non-disclosure. However, from what we've seen with the most recent intel leaks regarding Ms. Plume's CIA work - when someone wants to leak information, the information gets leaked - to the NATIONAL news media - not some website or even to some small independant news organization.

The reason I have some slight distrust for this story is the method they are using to disclose information. Maybe the president is out of the loop - that's believable. However if the intel group who wants disclosure is now moving forward with disclosure - I would think they would leak the information to the national media - not some website.

However - you bring up an excellent point Anglo. The issue of national security. Intentional leaks can be criminal if they affect national security (whatever the definition truly is of "national security" is debateable though). But, my answer to that would be that Anon and fellow intel people involved in this have obviously already decided to release the information to a website - so the issue of national security must already have been decided. So why are they hiding from the media? Why not just leak the information directly to the media - why all of these theatrics with a small-scale website? It just doesn't make sense to me...

Thanks Bill for your time, and for your thoughtful comments. You seem to me to be truly on the up-and-up here, and I know we all appreciate the work you are putting into this. Hopefully you (and maybe even "Victor", whoever he/she is) are not having a fast one pulled over on you with this story.

I know there are MANY of us looking forward to the next installment with a cautious open mind and a healthy critical eye, and particularly looking forward to the photos - which will go a long way in proving the authenticity of these claims.

Best Regards,
rdubeo2

Given the subject matter I can understand this aspect of the leak, Politics sell newspapers, an "alleged" ET/UFO story involving a long-term trip to another world would only be seen to sell the kind of papers that the mainstream look down upon, If the President announced the news from the WH lawn then you'd get mainstream coverage no problem, however getting that kind of reaction to an intelligence source providing the material wilthout high level "official" corroboration would probably see the story rot on a sub-editors desk filed under "For: slow news day, page 17 byline, pad with usual cranks".

What I can't understand fully is the piecemeal nature of the disclosure.

Personally I'm inclined towards thinking that SERPO really is another small bite of an acclimatization project, a mixture of info & disinfo for the purposes of working slowly towards the real day of "disclosure".

And when D-Day comes, we're really not going to miss it, and probably won't be left with much to question as far as authenticity because it will be international news.

Anglo.

It seems to me that to gently release info to the people who are actively seeking the truth on ufo's is a good way of distilling to the wider public. I know lots of people that are not at all interested in pursuing alien/ufo info in books or the internet, yet who are familiar with the classic 'grey' alien image already.

If the BBC news suddenly announced project serpo it would freak a lot of people out, if however the serpo story was out in the public domain but from softer sources, then maybe it would eventually filter out to the public at large and soften the blow.

But then again we could speculate endlessly,

Originally posted by torbjon
Xare:

That's 'relative to the observer'...

A person on a speeding spaceship (nearing the speed of light) would not notice any changes within the space ship, wristwatch still ticks away just like always. If they looked outside of their spaceship, it would seem that the people on Earth were a blur of activity, moving at a highly accelerated rate.

[edit on 13-1-2006 by torbjon]

Actually - torbjon is right. Xare is confusing how we on earth have created our "measurement" of time - with Einstein's definition of time as a dimension. Einsteins definition of time is another dimension as are the dimensions of an object's position in space.

Earth time is a measurement of this dimension by partitioning our rotational position of the planet Earth relative to the sun. The "feeling" of 1 second of time for us is how much of this dimension (time) it takes for the Earth to rotate a certain distance - we use the sun as our relational marker to identify our rotation, or position in space.

If Earth (or any planet) were to rotate faster, obviously 1 second as previously defined using rotational distance before would no longer be valid. Our watches are simply measurement devices, pre-set with those measured amounts of time it takes for the earth to rotate a certain distance. If the earth rotates faster - obviously our sense of normal "time" would get all screwed up. 24 hours would no longer "feel" like 24 hours - because days and nights would come and go much faster.

So, forget about our Earth defined measurement of time when you're thinking about Einstein's definition of time. Think of it as Einstein did - simply as another dimension to identify an object in space. To know where a planet is, you need a point of reference. So, start with a different planet - Earth. Where is this other alien planet? Well, we've got x axis, y axis, and z axis - the 3 dimensions. But there's also the 4th dimension of time. Einstein's theory of relativity just stated that this dimension is flexible and is based on the speed that you are traveling through space. This dimension shortens and shortens as you approach the constant speed of light.

This is why if you have a spaceship traveling the speed of light, it would take 37 million earth years to travel to a planet that is 37 million light-years from earth. However time for those on board the spaceship would not be the same as on Earth, the time dimension for those on board the ship would be shortened dramatically relative to time for people on earth. To those on the ship, it would not be 37 million earth years.

The discussion about the shortening of the time dimension for a planet that moves a little faster than the planet earth is not really relevant - because the difference in speed relative to the speed of light is so small that it is basically not a factor at all. It only comes into play in the "feeling" of day and night and how long it takes (as felt by earthlings) for days and nights to pass.

Sorry for the long post - but Einstein's theories have fascinated me for years and I love any discussions concerning them. Great thoughts guys - keep up the great work.

-rdube02

www.newscientist.com...

this was posted before, but, it won an award. and says interest from the gov't. So, here's another theory of going lightspeed...or faster. time would be almost redundant.

someone posted earlier to0, (to lazy to go dig for it), that estimated with this theory that it would be 3 hours to get to mars....and iit would take 9 months amount of time it would take to get to zeta/serpo...but, eh, I'm no scientist...but, the coincidence is interesting.

[edit on 13-1-2006 by waffleprime]

[edit on 13-1-2006 by waffleprime]

[edit on 13-1-2006 by waffleprime]

Originally posted by waffleprime
www.newscientist.com...

this was posted before, but, it won an award. and says interest from the gov't. So, here's another theory of going lightspeed...or faster. time would be almost redundant.

[edit on 13-1-2006 by waffleprime]

That's a great article (great read), thanks for posting it. I really hope someone shows the interest and initiative to get the experiment off the ground. It could be quite a break-through.

Although, I doubt we will ever hear about it....damn government seems to want to suppress all form of advanced technologies... we might as well go back to the forests and swing on the trees again. It's a shame.

Originally posted by ethanmallory
Report-80HQD893-020

Such a archive number / letter combination is absolute nonsense.
No government agency ever used such a number / letter combination.

Hi, ethanmallory – I received this below from someone on Victor's list, who looked into it. The message is verbatim.

Best, Bill
_____________

The Final Report Number does look like the system used in AFOSI from the 1980s.

80HQD would be HQ AFOSI 1980. Examples: 8017D would be AFOSI District 17 Kirtland AFB, NM.

80PJD would be a Special Unit which operated out of Nevada and in the 80's.

I find all this fascinating- Our own ATS members know a lot and are to be commended. I dont know the technicalities, the science and know nothing about what you guys can offer in this very interesting thread.

I am not an intellectual (surprise). I am looking for the pictures. Are those now dead in the water or do we still have hope that they will be available soon?

Great read, though.

I have been following the Serpo release since I first caught wind of it on C2C AM.
I am a relatively new ATS member. I joined after stumbling across this site in an attempt to find a good discussion site regarding Serpo.
I am skeptical to say the least, but I have not discounted this story as of yet.
This is my first post.
At the risk of making a huge faux pas I want to introduce the idea that this release should be documented in a more personal nature.
My intentions are benign! I promise.

It seems that with the attention this is starting to get (regardless of whether it turns out to be completely true or not) the burden of testimony is upon us.
Does anyone else agree that leaving it to memory will not acheive a useful reference?
How opposed to setting up phone (or where possible) in person (on camera) interviews would everyone be.
I, for one, and definitely many others would be very interested in recording the more personal response to this information that can only be described with the inflection of voice and the gesticulation of passionate appeal.
I propose a documentary.
Please do not read anything else into this request. I really just want your reaction to the idea.
If you would be a willing participant I beseech you to say so.
regards,
J - DefunCtion

Hi everyone. I am on Victors E-mail list. I have just looked up this forum and thread and read it with interest. From the responses in this post it seems most people are keeping an open mind but I can't help thinking that you guys are being taken for a bit of a ride by Bill Ryan. He seems to be almost selling the serpo story like some kind of promotional publicist. The reason I say this is that he has only presented one side of the case and has not included a lot of information that I have seen from the E-mail list that contradicts and discredits Serpo.

The first thing to say is that Victors list is anything but a "Who's who of uofology" anybody can join it by sending an E-mail to [email protected]. I only joined because I am interested in the subject. I am not a researcher, I have no degrees(I'm not even sure if I can spell degree) and my 13 year old nephew is also on Victors list. It is true that a lot of well known names are on this list. However prior to the Serpo story breaking lot of them asked to be removed and were complaining because Victor would not take them off the list and these E-mails were essentially spam clogging up their inboxes. (One very well known member of the Ufo community on the list did not even know about Serpo until a few days ago because he had rerouted the E-mails to his bulk folder).

The general consensus is that somebody on the list is playing a joke on Victor and trying to make him look stupid and gullible. The person that people suspect has been named although this person denies it. Some others accuse Victor of inventing the Serpo affair to increase his own standing and to help him get in with the in crowd many of whom did not want to be on his list and were added without their permission.

I am not neccessarily trying to discredit Serpo. I am only saying that the information presented seems to be being managed by Bill Ryan almost like a spin doctor with the support of Mr Doty, and that many other veterans of Ufo research either ignore it or have called it a "fairytale" or "worthless tripe".

[edit on 14-1-2006 by chelseafan1]

Wow chelseafan, talk about timing, I just posed this as a possibility in a seperate thread here.

And that was without access or better knowledge of the list itself.

Anglo.

Originally posted by chelseafan1
Hi everyone. I am on Victors E-mail list. I have just looked up this forum and thread and read it with interest. From the responses in this post it seems most people are keeping an open mind but I can't help thinking that you guys are being taken for a bit of a ride by Bill Ryan. He seems to be almost selling the serpo story like some kind of promotional publicist. The reason I say this is that he has only presented one side of the case and has not included a lot of information that I have seen from the E-mail list that contradicts and discredits Serpo.

The first thing to say is that Victors list is anything but a "Who's who of uofology" anybody can join it by sending an E-mail to [email protected]. I only joined because I am interested in the subject. I am not a researcher, I have no degrees(I'm not even sure if I can spell degree) and my 13 year old nephew is also on Victors list. It is true that a lot of well known names are on this list. However prior to the Serpo story breaking lot of them asked to be removed and were complaining because Victor would not take them off the list and these E-mails were essentially spam clogging up their inboxes. (One very well known member of the Ufo community on the list did not even know about Serpo until a few days ago because he had rerouted the E-mails to his bulk folder).

The general consensus is that somebody on the list is playing a joke on Victor and trying to make him look stupid and gullible. The person that people suspect has been named although this person denies it. Some others accuse Victor of inventing the Serpo affair to increase his own standing and to help him get in with the in crowd many of whom did not want to be on his list and were added without their permission.

I am not neccessarily trying to discredit Serpo. I am only saying that the information presented seems to be being managed by Bill Ryan almost like a spin doctor with the support of Mr Doty, and that many other veterans of Ufo research either ignore it or have called it a "fairytale" or "worthless tripe".

[edit on 14-1-2006 by chelseafan1]

Most interesting. but, you do know that here at ats the dicredited stuff is a given...and this whole debate is to try and prove otherwise? but, you on the list is most intriguing. yeah, anglo...that is strange.....really strange....u talked about coincidences? holy moly, strange.

[edit on 14-1-2006 by waffleprime]

You want strange waffleprime, how about this for a mindf***

I don't believe in significant co-incidence, but I do believe in synchronicity.

I am a walking contradiction

But that's a whole 'nother story

Cosmic Coincidence just like the movie Collateral? I get where ur goin
but, hmm..but, back on track. to lay things straight on the table. what the point some and being with that last "list" person post, is basically saying to be straightforward is that The Burisch Community are the cohorts behind the serpo deal? Defeating the whole point of disclosure, for self-gain?

disinformation at its best being greed?
(Listen to Centrist, he is all knowing )

[edit on 14-1-2006 by waffleprime]

[edit on 14-1-2006 by waffleprime]

Originally posted by chelseafan1
I am not neccessarily trying to discredit Serpo. I am only saying that the information presented seems to be being managed by Bill Ryan almost like a spin doctor with the support of Mr Doty, and that many other veterans of Ufo research either ignore it or have called it a "fairytale" or "worthless tripe".

I will certainly allow Bill to respond on his own behalf, but I would like to offer a few comments of my own.

First, I've noticed that Bill posts responses to specific questions in a fair and balanced way. I don't get the strong sense that he's a proponent of the story, any more than he is conveying what is known without editorializing on it.

Second, I am not quite sure of the basis for you suggesting that Rick Doty is involved in Serpo in any way. As you know, if you are on Victor's list, that there has been no open discussion between Rick and the list on this Serpo for quite some time. If they are having private discussions, I suppose none of us would know about. If you have more detailed information to suggest this connection, I think this forum would certainly be interested in hearing it.

There are only two factors that raise a spectre of suspicion with regard to Serpo that have a connection to Rick Doty, and I think they're far too tenuous to rely on as suggesting collusion between Rick and Bill. Rick is an admitted government intelligence agent that once targetted Linda Howe for disinformation; and Rick is on Victor's list. It would certainly add some light to all this if you have direct evidence that suggests a connection between Rick and the Serpo story itself.

Either someone directly related to the Burisch saga, or an interested 3rd party that caught the posting of the lists members emails on the forum it was posted to.

I'd discount an interested 3rd party myself simply because whoever "Anon" is, they would need to already have links to other researchers in order to establish *some* corroboration. (Even if false.)

Originally posted by Centrist

Originally posted by chelseafan1
I am not neccessarily trying to discredit Serpo. I am only saying that the information presented seems to be being managed by Bill Ryan almost like a spin doctor with the support of Mr Doty, and that many other veterans of Ufo research either ignore it or have called it a "fairytale" or "worthless tripe".

I will certainly allow Bill to respond on his own behalf, but I would like to offer a few comments of my own.

First, I've noticed that Bill posts responses to specific questions in a fair and balanced way. I don't get the strong sense that he's a proponent of the story, any more than he is conveying what is known without editorializing on it.

Second, I am not quite sure of the basis for you suggesting that Rick Doty is involved in Serpo in any way. As you know, if you are on Victor's list, that there has been no open discussion between Rick and the list on this Serpo for quite some time. If they are having private discussions, I suppose none of us would know about. If you have more detailed information to suggest this connection, I think this forum would certainly be interested in hearing it.

There are only two factors that raise a spectre of suspicion with regard to Serpo that have a connection to Rick Doty, and I think they're far too tenuous to rely on as suggesting collusion between Rick and Bill. Rick is an admitted government intelligence agent that once targetted Linda Howe for disinformation; and Rick is on Victor's list. It would certainly add some light to all this if you have direct evidence that suggests a connection between Rick and the Serpo story itself.

At No time has Bill Ryan ever tried to persuade into beleving this story here at ATS. If anything he is here to help get an understanding of it himself may it be false or not. this is a perfect post here, and these facts should be looked at before fire is thrown at someone.

Centrist. I tried to send you a PM but I can't because I dont have 20 posts. So I will write some of it here if I can remember it.

I have read my post again and realised that I did not make the meaning entirely clear. I was not suggessting that Mr Ryan and Mr Doty are in some way colluding together. I meant that Doty has supported the legitimacy of Serpo by doing the Coast to Coast show and putting his name behind it. I just found it interesting given the fact he has spread disinformation before that he was one of the few people on the list that came out and strongly supported Serpo whilst others didnt commit themselves or said it was bogus.

In case some of you have not read this yet in your messege box from the admins:

Also covered, another "supposedly" covert government program called "Project Serpo" for which Freedom Of Information Act documents are expected to be released within in days.

I wonder where the Admins got this information... would certaily help to know if they are not pulling stuff out of their behinds. I doubt that ofcourse, funny thought though...


[edit on 14-1-2006 by Unplugged]

I am glad Chelseafan has come to voice an opinion on this thread.

The point made looks balanced and makes sense. I am not claiming that the opinion is right or wrong, but I now have a more 'complete' idea about this e-mail list ... Which Bill has painted in a much different light than these revelations.

I give it until the end of the weekend to come up with some pictures, or I'm declaring my lurking on this thread officially over.

EDIT:


I didn't see the post above mine. I will wait until these documents are released (where would they be released to, I wonder) until my lurkage is over. Which is 'in a few days' and supports my 'before the weekend is over' declaration somewhat.

[edit on 14-1-2006 by Enrikez]

Originally posted by chelseafan1
I have read my post again and realised that I did not make the meaning entirely clear. I was not suggessting that Mr Ryan and Mr Doty are in some way colluding together. I meant that Doty has supported the legitimacy of Serpo by doing the Coast to Coast show and putting his name behind it. I just found it interesting given the fact he has spread disinformation before that he was one of the few people on the list that came out and strongly supported Serpo whilst others didnt commit themselves or said it was bogus.

Thanks for that clarification. I certainly can understand the basis for your post and can't say that there's any reason for you not to believe that Doty's support of the Serpo story is dubious, at best.

I recall Bill saying that Rick was a skeptic of the story, though. I could definitely be wrong about this, so maybe Bill can clear that up (although I will read through this thread, as I'm pretty sure he's answered this before).

Thanks again for your post -- your insight is very interesting. Keep it up, so you can send U2U's soon