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Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

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posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by Bill Ryan
In a nutshell, I received a threat that looked like it came from Washington. ...we're reluctant to release details until we're more sure of what that was all about.


Fair enough.

I understand.


...Has anyone contemplated "Anon"'s "pedigree" at Victor's?


Thanks,

Serpentime




posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by Serpentime


Originally posted at Serpo.org: "The original posting by Anonymous"
The complete debriefing is contained in: "PROJECT SERPO," Final Report-80HQD893-020, classified TS, Codeword. Ask [Rick] Doty about that report because I think it is an OSI report.


Actually, this was not posted by Anonymous, but was posted by Gene Loscowski, another member on the e-mail list. This was also the first mention that the exchange program was called "Project Serpo", by the order of the postings.



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by jgbjgb

Originally posted by Bill Ryan

Bill, please share some of the "other indications" with us - there is such a number of very sharp "investigators" contributing here - just now someone stumbles again onto something fascinating.
This requires a long answer to do it justice. I'm not ducking out of this, but it's late at night here in the UK and I'm really quite exhausted... I'll get back to you within 24 hours with as full a response as I can.


Thanx for the reply - waiting for this in anticipation.



Hi, jgbjgb – thanks for your patience.

Basic indications that this is real... in no special order: (please note: these are my own views only. I'm also assuming that I can use a degree of shorthand here – most of the forum members will be pretty familiar with the ins and outs of the story)

– The 'accidental' testimony of the AF Col (ret) with 33 years in Intel, who read the Serpo account in hard copy, was visibly shocked, and confirmed "Yes, [it's] all real."

– Threat received as per above post (again, apologies for not being in a position to provide details).

– A number of insiders and researchers had reported hearing of such an exchange program before. These include such respected individuals as Linda Howe. Paul McGovern and Gene Loscowski have gone on record as confirming the existence of the project openly (see Anon's website post #1). Paul McGovern also clarified what the "DIM" stood for – Anon didn't know. Paul McG explained it was the Duty Information Manual. If this was staged (Anon saying he didn't know, and Paul supplying the answer), it was very clever and quite subtle – more so than the way the rest of the story seems to have been crafted. That was also after I'd jumped on the 'DIM' issue and had thought I'd discovered what it meant. Paul McG corrected me with a one-line e-mail to myself and Victor. All that "smelled" very genuine.

– Whitley Strieber's tantalizing experience over ten years ago with the guy who (so it seemed) was claiming to have been on the Serpo team.

– Some of the data provided by Anon seems way off-beam (orbital data, etc). A simple hoaxer would have been sure to get the numbers "right"... very easy to do. (Doesn't a hoaxer want to convince?)

– Anon is not operating like a hoaxer. A hoaxer would actually have done a better job, so to speak. Many eventually proven UFO hoaxes have taken quite a bit of uncovering (forged documents, etc). This story is too easy to dismiss as a hoax. Yet the factors above indicate that if it is a hoax, it would have been much more sophisticated (if it was choreographed by the DIA themselves, e.g.). Yet Anon's writings are not sophisticated at all.

– The apparent anomalies (and absence of the photos to date) can all be accounted for if we suppose that the context under which Anon is operating is not as it may first appear – see my earlier posts about how Anon hardly has the 3,000 page report in his living room just sitting there like a Sears calalog. The report will be guarded under the tightest security and the conditions of access are unknown. We can hypothesise that Anon may not even have access to the document at all, and may be relying on memory, someone else's memory, or someone else supplying him with the information maybe by phone or by tape under conditions over which he himself has no control. As for the photos, they may again be in a different location. Paradoxically, there is the factor that Anon having "gone quiet" may be precisely because he has indeed met with difficulty caused by insider agents. We know that there are different factions within the Intel community re disclosure – some, wishing to support, may be looking the other way, but some may be trying to stop Anon... or even supplying him with false data (after he started his disclosure). Just about anything could be happening. All the above are not reasons to accept the story – just persuasive reasons not to dismiss it without very careful thought.

I don't think the above is a complete list – see the "Consistencies" web page for more (chronobiology experiments underground etc, the CE3 hints, the EBE-2 interview etc). Forum members here may well be able to add to this list, which is unlikely to be complete this late at night in the UK!

Best, Bill



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 07:58 PM
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(post deleted - it was the above long response duplicated in error.)

[edit on 10-1-2006 by Bill Ryan]



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by Hal9000

Originally posted by Serpentime


Originally posted at Serpo.org: "The original posting by Anonymous"
The complete debriefing is contained in: "PROJECT SERPO," Final Report-80HQD893-020, classified TS, Codeword. Ask [Rick] Doty about that report because I think it is an OSI report.


Actually, this was not posted by Anonymous, but was posted by Gene Loscowski, another member on the e-mail list. This was also the first mention that the exchange program was called "Project Serpo", by the order of the postings.


Thanks, Hal.

My apologies.


I was trying to reference the specific # of "Anon"'s post, but it was only titled "The original posting by Anonymous" at Serpo.org.

(So I stuck it in quotation marks.)


Victor corrected Bill Ryan (I think?); it was Paul McGovern who supplied the reference classification.


Best,

Serpentime

[edit on 10-1-2006 by Serpentime]



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by Bill Ryan

– Some of the data provided by Anon seems way off-beam (orbital data, etc). A simple hoaxer would have been sure to get the numbers "right"... very easy to do. (Doesn't a hoaxer want to convince?)


Or, perhaps (alternately):

"Yes, I'd like some Strawberry Ice Cream on the side, please!!"



(Sorry, Bill... I couldn't resist.
)

Your point about "Anon", Paul McGovern, and the "DIM", is well taken. That caught my attention, too.

Thanks for clarifying.


Serpentime

[edit on 10-1-2006 by Serpentime]



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by Serpentime
My apologies.

No problem, I just noticed it because earlier I made cliff notes on who said what first.



Victor corrected Bill Ryan (I think?); it was Paul McGovern who supplied the reference classification.

The way I took the correction was that Paul M. gave the "project classification" which was listed as "TS". That probably means it was classified "Top Secret", and is usually followed by a codeword, like "Umbra", but if you notice the codeword is not given. I think Gene L. probably supplied the name and report number. It is a bit confusing, but doesn't really matter. I searched for this stuff earlier, but didn't find anything.

Regards.



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by Serpentime

Originally posted by Hal9000

Originally posted by Serpentime


Originally posted at Serpo.org: "The original posting by Anonymous"
The complete debriefing is contained in: "PROJECT SERPO," Final Report-80HQD893-020, classified TS, Codeword. Ask [Rick] Doty about that report because I think it is an OSI report.


Actually, this was not posted by Anonymous, but was posted by Gene Loscowski, another member on the e-mail list. This was also the first mention that the exchange program was called "Project Serpo", by the order of the postings.


Victor corrected Bill Ryan (I think?); it was Paul McGovern who supplied the reference classification.



Yes, he did. It's a little unclear what happened. It looks like something went awry with the attribution of a portion of added data. Victor sometimes would take two messages from someone and edit them into one. No attempt to deceive – just his exercising what he felt was his editorial license for economy and ease of presentation.

But occasionally, it seemed, an error would creep in. He'd take part of a message from Y and add it to X's earlier message mistakenly thinking that it was supplementary info from the same person. It looks like something like this may have happened here with Gene/Paul.

Victor deletes all the original e-mails after posting to his list (his Web TV has no simple means of archiving data), so we'll never know quite who said what, and when, beyond the posts we're left with – all of which are verbatim on the website.

Best, Bill



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 10:33 PM
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Victor deletes all the original e-mails after posting to his list (his Web TV has no simple means of archiving data), so we'll never know quite who said what, and when, beyond the posts we're left with – all of which are verbatim on the website.

Best, Bill


Oh my.......... for those of us who like to have facts and a paper trail to follow - THAT'S a problem! A BIG problem - unless there is other source documentation to substantiate the claims.



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by Shawnna

Victor deletes all the original e-mails after posting to his list
Best, Bill


Oh my.......... for those of us who like to have facts and a paper trail to follow - THAT'S a problem!


True, but if we are using Victor's emails as hard evidence at some point, this battle is already lost
Too many disclosures degenerate into debates over non-existent physical evidence and uncorroborated circumstantial evidence. The only evidence that will ever truly be worthy of analysis is the information and photos. As Bill has suggested, a page of calculations that could not easily be faked (if at all), or some physical data we could verify would be a good start.

If Anonymous disappears or offers "evidence" that strongly suggests that this is a hoax, all we would ever learn from Victor's actual emails is who may have perpetrated it.

Then it's deja vu all over again...


Centrist



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 10:59 PM
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Suprised no one posted this yet on astronomers finding a third star near Polaris that they suspected existed:

www.space.com...

Still it's 2 billion miles away from Polaris (vs 91 million according Anon) but there's a little hope for Serpo believers.


There's an interesting story on triple stars at the bottom of this story that talks about triple stars having planets. I know Anon doesn't claim that there are 3 stars in the system but right now his Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 story doesn't equate to what scientists say about the system.



[edit on 1-10-2006 by Boogie]



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 11:10 PM
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Centrist - The only evidence that will ever truly be worthy of analysis is the information and photos. As Bill has suggested, a page of calculations that could not easily be faked (if at all), or some physical data we could verify would be a good start.

If Anonymous disappears or offers "evidence" that strongly suggests that this is a hoax, all we would ever learn from Victor's actual emails is who may have perpetrated it.

Then it's deja vu all over again...


Centrist


Agreed. It is a concern though when someone is editing information received - even if the goal is clarity.

When Victor edits for clarity - is he running his edited version by the source for confirmation?



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 07:35 AM
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Report-80HQD893-020

Such a archive number / letter combination is absolute nonsense.
No government agency ever used such a number / letter combination.



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by ethanmallory
Report-80HQD893-020

Such a archive number / letter combination is absolute nonsense.
No government agency ever used such a number / letter combination.



Ethan, notwithstanding your personal knowledge of government document numbering systems, how can you state as fact that NO government agency ever used such a system? No one could possibly be in a position to be aware of every document numbering system --- especially one possibly used by very secret agencies. Clearly, this document ---if it is real and actually exists --- wasn't earmarked for the National Archives.



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 09:08 AM
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my view is that serpo is done......WAY WAY too little info coming out now (actually its non-existent) it would appear that Anon has effectively been shut down.....like we could not see this coming....the release went way too slow and now we are basically left with pretty much a empty bag.

Anon blew it.....blew it BIGTIME !!..he had his chance to make history and blew it on a grindingly slow release (at the pace he was going 3000 pages would have taken 30+ years !!)

its a shame.....but with black ops being what they are...and the current administration being the lying sacks of crap that they are......its a safe bet this serpo thing is done.

now I'll bet some serious disinfo will filter out and make this whole serpo thing a total joke to be laughed at by the whole UFO community.



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by Alpha Grey
my view is that serpo is done......WAY WAY too little info coming out now (actually its non-existent)


I think a lot of people are feeling the same frustration as you are, but we were (in essence) warned that the pictures might take a while to come. If they don't, then yup -- it's done. I'm still keeping an eye out for a bit longer though, but you're quite right -- Anon could have been shut down by those who didn't want him to speak. Or he could have been a hoaxster that didn't have the "goods" he promised. I'm still fairly confident that we'll hear something again... or, at least, I remain hopeful.


now I'll bet some serious disinfo will filter out and make this whole serpo thing a total joke to be laughed at by the whole UFO community.


I actually disagree with this quite strongly. No one in the ufo community has put much, if any, stock into Anon's story, so it's not likely to become a laughable story down the road. Instead, the community has kept and open mind, engaged in interesting and vigorous debates about whether life-sustaining planets could orbit binary star systems, and more. No one has, at any point, claimed that this was "the real thing" though. In fact, most are of the opinion that until we see some proof, it's just an interesting story... nothing more.

Most importantly, there will be plenty of time to write this off as a hoax, a disinformation campaign, or a case of the MIBs shuttting down disclosure once again... after we're certain that Anon has gone silent. Until then, lets hope that we learn something relatively soon and that helps us decide what this is all about.

[edit on 11-1-2006 by Centrist]



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 10:38 AM
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*rolls eyes*

So this Victor guy uses webtv to access the net, okay, fine. He has a list full of brainiacs that he hangs out with and chats ufo stuff... okay, fine.... and yet he can't figure out a way to archive potentially earth shattering data?

Are You Kidding Me?

Keep in mind I have yet to have my first cup o' coffee fer the day, the ONLY reason I'm up now is that some jerk is in my basement with a power saw...mmmph. Not even spell checkin' this 'cause that's how mmmphed I am...

so, let's see what the decaffinated bozoboy from alaska can come up with...

VCR. run the webtv box through the VCR, VCR to the teevee. Four of five seconds of tape per page of info. Magnetic media "hard copy" suitable for archiving or distribution.

Hotmail. It's FREE. Many MEGS of SECURE STORAGE SPACE. Once yer done with yer webtv email, send an un edited copy to yer private Hotmail stash.

Trusted comrades with server space or hard drives. Don't trust anybody then this option sucks, but com'on, the guy's a confidant, people are leakin' information to him, brainiacs are chatting with him... if he's got a mom or a brother or old war buddy he trusts, stash it on their hard drive.

Bill, yer in the loop, how many megs does the serpo site have ta play with and how many are you actually using?? Why not give the guy a little storage space?

and now the buzz saw in the basement has turned into a jackhammer and woke up me daughter so now we're Both ticked off.

grrmph.

I gotta go downstairs and reprogram a contractor with a crowbar.

rock on
twj



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by torbjon
*rolls eyes*

So this Victor guy uses webtv to access the net, okay, fine. He has a list full of brainiacs that he hangs out with and chats ufo stuff... okay, fine.... and yet he can't figure out a way to archive potentially earth shattering data?




Apparently Victor is not planning to write a book when this is over! I see your point and yes it is strange that he is not keeping any local data base except for maybe one thing. Victor is Anon's supposedly only contact right?
Victor is the middle man here recieving the info and forwarding it on to interested parties. Suppose that powers unknown wanted to shutdown Anon, then they would go after Victor and whatever info he has. Victor by not keeping a record and only forwarding the info is then circumventing any attempt to destroy evidence by not keeping evidence! It is like the President using what is called 'Plausible Deniablity'. I am not an expert on the matter but it is the best I can do at the moment!



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 11:34 AM
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Dear Mr. Ryan...
why is it you cannot specify the threat you received??


from serpo.org "This information is shared in the spirit that the best place to hide is out in the open.


if you did get a threat...would it not be best to share it with all of us so you have "witnesses" to the perceived threat ??

let the ATS community hear this threat....for we do all support you and are there for you.



also on a side note.......light a fire under Anon......methinks he is dozing !



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 11:47 AM
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we already shredded Anon story, it over. Done, no more.

the hole was dug too deep with too many holes. Anon never figured his information would be challenged and did not realize that there is actually some people in the "know" they might not have the complete picture but there is enough pieces out there to discredit anyone who does not fully plan out their "story" ahead of time.

ATS has a great collection of very very very smart people, who are not only web savy but have some time "in" on this planet and have real world experience.

ATS is not a group of teenagers and 20 somethings sitting around drinking Mt Dew wondering what the girl next door looks like in the nude.

Must of us are carear professionals in many different industries, thank GOD. And as a collective brain pool each member has a speciific talent to contribute. Some just in their tenacity for pushing for details or in their smooth pleasant approach that leaves the door open to get tid bits of telling data that lead to a "liars" non-truths.

Anon took a wrong step by using a known star system and then not having anything close to the right astronomical facts. While making up the star system completely he would have been better off giving a distance in AU's but not naming the star system due to "security" issues. Give enough data to present at least three plausible star systems and leave out just enough so that you could not pinpoint which of the three it was. Make the story have no details about other planets in that star system. And describe the system in universal laws of physics still applying. Sure you could have differnet gravitational forces ie the moon, the earth etc. Have a different solar period and a means for life on the planet to still exist etc. (terraforming, artificial structures etc)

Leave off the historical timing of the civilization, since EBEN's accounted for time different then terrestrial humans did, just say an ancient war decimated the EBEN cultiure and some technolgies were lost and over time EBEN regained some means of space travel, but lacking the resources of their home planet system were no longer capable of constructing large interstellar space ships, the remaining ships they have are there only means of travel until they can locate another star system that has similar resources as their home system, giving space is many billions of light years across it has taken some time even to find other inhabitable planets.

But no instead you have figures being given and then given and restated in ways that contridict the previous statements, And you have figures about equipment that when questions about sustaining a 10 year program are "revised" to come more in line with the questionars suggestions.

Serpo is a fraud an act of ficticious writing that has no grounds in reality.

[edit on 11-1-2006 by robertfenix]



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