Originally posted by Hydden
I know you've been on Pippen and Coast to Coast already....do you have plans to appear on any more shows for interviews? I'm just curious how many people in broadcasting are taking notice and how far you'd be willing to go. (ie Good Morning America, CNN, BBC, etc)

Keep up the great work!

I also did a third radio show befopre I left the US, have been asked to speak at the March 2006 UFO Congress in Nevada, am collaborating in an article for UFO Magazine, and have just been approached by a British journalist (no idea yet where that's going). I've not been proactive in trying to set up anything – I just respond to messages that come in and say "yes" to everything if I feel I can help.

How far would I be willing to go? All the way – no problem. But the further one goes, the better the story has to be to survive critical scrutiny. At the moment, it would last at the New York Times for as long as it took the editor to call their science correspondent. But it's not the end of the game yet (I hope!). In my opinion we need all or either (1) more hard data, (2) more understanding of the context of the environment in which Anon is operating (e.g. access to the report or not, is he getting his information directly or indirectly, etc) and/or (3) the promised photos.

Non sequitur: you guys may be interested to know that among the 600 messages about Serpo I've received, some reporting additional data which we're checking out, I'm also getting a trickle of information about other interesting subjects. To give three examples:

A retired military scientist, name, history and e-mail supplied, told me in detail of a single encounter he had with a Reptilian and a Gray in the Dulce underground base quite a while back. Another (also IDing himself) told me of a night-time visit to Area 51 where the large black triangular craft were visible, all lined up. A third told of a meeting... (wait for this one) ...with George Hoover, the ex-Navy officer you can see associated with the Philadelphia Experiment if you Google him, when he was elderly and beginning to suffer from Alzheimer's. He knew he was going to lose his faculties, so he told all to my source before his memory went. (Personal note: my father had Alzheimer's, so I understand it quite well. One's memory slowly evaporates – a desperately poignant process – but one DOES NOT imagine fantasies in their place. Rather, there is left simply a blank confusion.)

As I understand it Hoover confirmed the essentials of the Philadelphia Experiment, stated that the aliens were "us from the future" and that there was some kind of a problem with parallel timelines (!) (we were in a "loop", he said), and, intriguingly, that the principal reason why the USG had a huge problem releasing the data on UFOs was not because of the ultrahigh technology or even because of the aliens' existence – but was because of the aliens' paranormal abilities, dwarfing ours. It was this, apparently, rather than the Russian research as many have assumed, which was the trigger for the heavily-funded RV and psi research in the last twenty plus years which is now well-known and documented.

No point in asking me any questions on this... that's all I was told! It may not even be true. But I figured you might be as fascinated as I was.

Best wishes, Bill

I'm very interested in hearing about the military scientist's story, please do keep up updated or invite him to share the details with us

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
...the aliens' paranormal abilities, dwarfing ours. It was this, apparently, rather than the Russian research as many have assumed, which was the trigger for the heavily-funded RV and psi research in the last twenty plus years which is now well-known and documented.

Bill,

The Aviary's "Partridge" (Hal Puthoff) was director/consultant of the Defense Intelligence Agency's remote viewing program at Stanford Research Institute some twenty years ago (I believe). Certainly, he would know more (or at least I would assume) if there was anything to that angle...

Maybe Robert Collins could put you in touch?

(If "Partridge" isn't already on Victor's list.)

Just my thought...

Serpentime



[edit on 29-12-2005 by Serpentime]

I'm not convinced the Ebens' timeline ("only" 2000 of space travel etc) is at all significant. It's not a typo I can detect unless it was on the other side of Victor's end, so to speak.

The way I immediately read it, which seemed fine, was that this referred to interstellar travel and therefore required a different kind of technology. If they'd originally come from a planet from the "other" distant pair (see my post above), for instance, that's only a distance twice that of Pluto's orbital radius – a tenth of a light year. "Old" technology could manage that if the race was in an emergency exodus through its survival being threatened. (Note – I think I've mentioned this before – this also is consistent with the idea of Serpo being trerraformed, which may explain the apparent absence of biodiversity, odd climate, etc.)

More interesting to me is the relatively short period of civilization – only 8,000 years to interstellar travel from a presumed "uncivilized" state; but there again, if there was only one race of Ebens, there may have been no war amongst them (which always messes things up), and also with an average IQ of 165, they'd have advanced significantly more quickly. (Their own Einsteins would have been supergeniuses with IQs of 250+. It'd not take many of them each generation to invent some cool stuff.)

Furthermore, it's noteworthy to remember that in our own case, if the Greeks had got their act together there could have been a full-scale Victorian industrial revolution a couple of centuries AD – but they missed their opportunity through decadence and we plunged into the Dark Ages, losing over 1500 years of developmental time. In a parallel universe, Archimedes may have invented the steam engine (he was capable of it) and by now we'd be in the stars.

Best, Bill

Originally posted by agwardlds
I am hoping someone takes the time to research Carl Sagan, and what he wrote.

To Agwardlds,

Thank you for mentioning Carl Sagan. I've been thinking about him, too.

"Anon" cites Dr. Sagan's participation in posts 5 and 7a, and describes his "60 jam-packed pages" of calculations as a significant contribution to the "Project Serpo" Final Report.

Bill Ryan recently re-emphasized those "60 jam-packed pages" in a reply to Onlyinmydreams, also.

For these, and other reasons, it would appear to me that Dr. Sagan's name (like Dr. Menzel's) is meant to attract our attention. With this in mind, I wondered if it might be helpful to go back and recall Dr. Sagan's historical position on these matters?


As these are my thoughts only, please feel free to critique them:


As Carl Sagan was busy--in the year 1980--wrangling with the novel physics of Serpo, he was also doing many other things of which we can be more factually certain. Among them was the adaptation of his Public Television series, "Cosmos", into the book form...

As an old Sagan flunky, I hold my original copy of "Cosmos" in my hand and read from Chapter Twelve, entitled "Encyclopedia Galactica" (Dr. Sagan's 1980 perspective on Extraterrestrial Life and Humankind's theoretical relationships to it):

Originally published in "Cosmos", 1980 edition, p.292
In the Milky Way Galaxy, there must be many planets millions of years older than Earth, and some that are billions older. Should we not have been visited? In all the billions of years since the origin of our planet, has there not been even once a strange craft from a distant civilization surveying our world from above, and slowly settling down to the surface to be observed by iridescent dragonflies, incurious reptiles, screeching primates or wondering humans? The idea is natural enough. It has occurred to everyone who has contemplated, even casually, the question of intelligent life in the universe. But has it happened in fact? The critical issue is the quality of the purported evidence, rigorously and skeptically scrutinized--not what sounds plausible, not the unsubstantiated testimony of one or two self-professed eyewitnesses. By this standard there are no compelling cases of extraterrestrial visitation, despite all the claims about UFOs and ancient astronaunts that make it seem that our planet is awash in uninvited guests. I wish it were otherwise.

(Bold added by author.)

From a soul as broadly connected with the respect for "Intellectual Honesty" (The Truth) as Dr. Sagan's was known to be, this statement appears emminently 'un-spin-able'. In other words, he either meant it literally, or he was flat-out lying.

While I personally understand comments such as, "unsubstantiated testimony of one or two self-professed eyewitnesses" to be scientifically dishonest, that doesn't necessarily transmogrify a person's self-absorption and ignorance into a deception.

Right here--on the High Altar of Science--was Dr. Sagan deliberately lying to the entire world?

Cutting right to the heart of the Serpo "Relativistic Physics" debate, Sagan also relates:

Originally published in "Cosmos", 1980 edition, p.296
The laws of Nature are the same everywhere. The patterns in the spectra of distant stars and galaxies are the same as those for the Sun or for appropriate laboratory experiments: not only do the same chemical elements exist everywhere in the universe, but also the same laws of quantum mechanics that govern the absorbtion and emission of radiation by atoms apply everywhere as well. Distant galaxies revolving about one another follow the same laws of gravitational physics as govern the motion of an apple falling to Earth, or Voyager on its way to the stars. The patterns of Nature are everywhere the same.

(Bold added by author.)

Quite a "Serpo-thetical" paradox in that statement, isn't there? Dr. Sagan's intellectual honesty (as I would have it) is diametrically opposed to his security clearance (or is it the other way around?).

Earlier, Sagan writes:

Originally published in "Cosmos", 1980 edition, p.296
Extraterrestrial intelligence will be elegant, complex, internally consistent and utterly alien.

(Bold added by author.)

What seems utterly alien to me, is the Janus-face Carl Sagan would have had to have worn on his "Q" clearance (or whatever...) that year. Reading further into Chapter Twelve, you cannot mistake Sagan's complete fixation on S.E.T.I. and the Drake Equation, either. Not a bit of it sounds anything like the thoughts of a man who is being simultaneously re-educated by Ebens in an SCI vault.

As a young man, I did not know Donald Menzel. But I did know Carl Sagan. He may have possessed more security connections than I was aware of, but I never thought that he would deliberately lie to me.


But again, that's only my opinion.





[edit on 29-12-2005 by Serpentime]

Hi, Hal9000 –

Many thanks for your messages! (More in a mo...)

Yes, close binaries exist too – they're a different kind of animal. You can Google them and find references. Close binaries are harder to detect from Earth, for obvious reasons. Both the stars in a close binary sort of operate like planets of each other (my lay definition!) and orbit around their common center of mass. The precise mechanics will depend on distance apart, relative masses, and speed of mutual orbital rotation. When planets are added to this mix, goodness knows what happens (to the planets). That, I think, was Anon's point he continually stressed.

This whole topic (close binary vs. distant binary) exercised Victor's list and generated some passionate debate, some saying this discredited the story – hence its importance to understand.

Anon seemed to be saying Z1/Z2 were a close binary (he never used that term, but the orbital data he provided dictated that), whereas astronomers have identified them as a tenth of a light year apart (earlier I said half a light year... my mistake). But a tenth of a light year is still pretty far – twice Pluto's orbital radius. It's definitely a distant binary, inasmuch as the mass of the second sun would not perturb the orbits of any planets of the first. My question is wondering whether this suggestion of the combination of a close AND a distant binary actually deciphers the otherwise apparently cryptic phraseology used by Anon.

Re your other! Anon doesn't always respond to questions, as you've already guessed... although he always might. He's away now till 2 January, when Victor will send him a whole raft of stuff to consider. I'm wary of overloading him. If he receives 50 messages from Victor all at once and all of which are flagged as important, that's the best way to make sure he handles none of them! So I'd rather phase it and send any questions of my own a day or two later when he's back on duty, as it were.

My apologies also for not getting back to you earlier myself – I'm usually quicker off the mark, but have been travelling and am also keeping a lot of balls in the air at the moment. (I need an Eben Energy Device!)

Best, Bill

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
(I need an Eben Energy Device!)

Best, Bill

I think we could all use one.

Thanks for your reply, and have a happy New Year.

Carl Sagan obviously was similiar in his method of dealing with the extraterrestrial issue as J. Allen Hynek. Hynek would simply dismiss any testimony as swampgas,ice crystals,etc. It is a shame that Sagan did not bring forth the truth before he died. Who knows.....maybe he isn't dead. Maybe he left for Serpo

Originally posted by Bill Ryan

Anon seemed to be saying Z1/Z2 were a close binary (he never used that term, but the orbital data he provided dictated that), whereas astronomers have identified them as a tenth of a light year apart (earlier I said half a light year... my mistake). But a tenth of a light year is still pretty far – twice Pluto's orbital radius. It's definitely a distant binary, inasmuch as the mass of the second sun would not perturb the orbits of any planets of the first. My question is wondering whether this suggestion of the combination of a close AND a distant binary actually deciphers the otherwise apparently cryptic phraseology used by Anon.

I, too, was puzzled by the vague description of Zeta 2 being "within 2 orbits" of Zeta 1. Perhaps the original Serpo report reads that Zeta 2 is at a distance equal to twice the orbital radius of Pluto to our sun? After all, Anonymous has made more than a few typos/errors and Victor is also copying and pasting information, editing and reordering, is he not?

There is one thing that does not make any sense to me.

In initial post, anonymous said that there were two crashes: one southwest of Corona, New Mexico and the second site south of Datil, New Mexico. First one was found a day later, while it took couple of days just for sheriff to check the site reported by couple of ranchers. (found in 1949).

And then we have under consistencies on sherpo.org document which apparently stated that they (Ebes) were aware if problems with their vessel, but army came before them.

Am I missing something? (or perhaps my English knowledge is insufficient to understand)


[edit on 12/30/05 by vietifulJoe]

I wonder if Victor Martinez himself would be willing to post on this thread/board. How busy can he be...
Im surprised no one has brought this up yet... unless I missed something, which I doubt .

[edit on 30-12-2005 by Unplugged]

Originally posted by mbkennel
"space travelers for 2000 years".

Perhaps there has been a misunderstanding from "serpian" to Earth language and understanding.

Consider that in the 1400's, the Chinese emperor ordered a major program of intercontinental ship travel, and with very lage, powerful and sophisticated ships for the time. Then, suddently with the next regime, it all stopped. They didn't lose the technology, they lost the desire to spend the money.

The Serpian EBEs apparently have "travelers" to other stars, such as the Earth.

The 2,000 year remark may not have been a function of technology specifically, but regarding an organized program of interplanetary/interstellar exploration. You have to consider all possibilities especially with immense language and culture gaps.

Other possibliites include that prior to the 2000 years ago, they had enough tech to get from Zeta 1 to Zeta 2 systems (a long distance but not like to Earth), but not that much further.

The expense & tech necessary to go further could have been very expensive and difficult.

Or perhaps, the 2000 year remark refers to the length of time Serpian EBEs have been visiting Earth specifically---they could easily have not understood the question precisely, and use the answer.

"The Ebens have been space travellers for 2,000 years" is an imprecise statement that leaves itself open to interpretations. All the information given previously, the Ebens colonizing a new planet 5,000 years ago, fighting an interplanetary war 3,000 years ago, infers that the Ebens have been able to "travel in space" for more than 2,000 years. But being able to "travel in space" isn't precisely the same as being an active "space traveller." By analogy, all of us have the technology (air travel infrastructure) to "travel the world" but not all of us are "world travellers."

Furthermore, I'm wondering if their interplanetary war reduced their willingness to actively explore/trade/travel through space? We don't know how long their war lasted (10 years? 100 years? 500 years?), but did the horrendous loss of life and guilt over destroying another race make the Ebens choose to keep to themselves for 1,000 years? The story describes Ebens as being highly ethical, docile, conscientious beings that also have long lifespans (2,000 years, right?). So then, perhaps it took the Ebens time to heal their collective will and conscience to actively travel the stars? Perhaps visiting Earth found them an opportunity to do some good (planting the mystery great person to help advance our civilization) ?

Well, with all the talk about Dr. Sagan and yes, I have the same book but it is getting just a little old now though.
And all the talk about gravity of two Suns, and how would that Planet be -- lopsided sometimes and at other times -- just:

The spacealiens come from a boing, boing, Planet.
They traveled here in their boing, boing, spaceship.
They have a game that they play with their boing, boing ball!

The spacealiens are fun but you need -- boing, boing physics to calculate their system.

Perhaps, I am not really all that worried about the SpaceAliens or EBENS, but I do wonder about -- Humans!



Just some humor!

Internet was slow, so it double posted.

The spacealiens traveled here in their boing, boing spaceship boinging through SpaceTime.

No wonder, humans can not get off of this Planet.



So now the double post is edited, as sometimes..........................

One may just have to smile about all of this someday!


[edit on 30-12-2005 by AmoebaSized]

Centrist, you certainly have a way to get me to thinking. I see what you are getting at and it does make sense. We live on a planet where all around us nature follows a sense of time that we humans are not tuned to and cannot see. Humans base their time on sight, such as position of the Sun or Moon or stars, etc. Nature senses time, as in the seasonal changes. As a boy I had a dog that would follow me to school everyday. Mom had to lock him in the house until I was safely in class. Eventually he learned what time I would get out of class. Mom said he would leave the yard and go meet me precisely at 3:00pm everyday. Perhaps my dog was on 'Eben time.'

My collected thoughts regarding things in the Serpo story that stand out:

1)Lack of biodiversity: Anon hasn't really said that there's a lack of biodiversity. What he has said is that there are very few flying animals and that sea life is apparently not as variable as ours is. The fact that he described few land animals does not mean that there isn't a complete food chain or that there are only a few land animals... after all, he may only have described the most interesting animals. If this is true, it makes sense that he would talk about the 'snake' and 'beast' first without going over the food chain that supports them.

2)The 'time' issue: Anon may simply have meant that, at a psychological level, the Ebens perceive time differently than we do. This makes sense because one would assume that brains that have evolved differently would piece their perceptions together differently. Actually... if the aliens had the exact same sense of taste, smell, vision, touch and time as we do... THAT would be proof of a hoax. The 'time' comments may simply have meant that their psychological perception of it is different than ours is... not that they don't have any abstract conception of (their own sense of) time.

3)The 'different physics' at Zeta Reticuli: To get back to point #2, if the Ebens perceive the world around them differently than we do, it may very well be true that WE are the ones who are missing something... some subjective observation that would lead us to a different understanding of physics. Take the earthworm as an example... it only has the sense of touch. If it were sentient, it would describe a world based on touch alone... and its physics would be based only on the observations that touch could give. Now... it might reject a human understanding of physics because our concepts take into account observations that were based on sight, sound, smell, etc. We, in turn, might reject the physics of an alien world because there could be forces working on it that we are not aware of.