Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

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posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by torbjon
They tell me it’s bogus, can’t be done, not even with some kind of magic mystery program.

bah.

phooey

mmmph.

rock on
twj



I'm with you on that one Torbjon. I have been, creating, editing and using jpegs for years. Its a bitmap with a very efficient algorithm for compressing data. Nothing more. For those of you who want to see what a 4.16 meg jpeg looks like, heres a link to one of Dell's press release photos for a gamers machine. Zoom in on the start button displayed on the XP image on the display shown and then zoom in on the >> next to that. Lots of detail so much you can't even see the >> in the basic image download.

www.dell.com...

Just realize this is essentially a con with a lot of references which all point back to BR. It is designed to keep press up for months if not years with no substantiation. It is nothing more than that, otherwise Anon would have surfaced by now with a better source and better data. Remember, all the data was pretty much debunked in its style, form and unrealistic presentation. But I suppose this post will rile up the Ryanites. They won't give up folks.




posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 05:24 PM
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Hi all,

There seems to be a bit of confusion with my "theory". Even I'm getting confused


Firstly a glossary:

TA = True Anon (the guy with all the REAL Serpo info)
PTB = Powers That Be (Govt., CIA, Dis-Info Agents or whoever)
BR = Bill Ryan
FA = False Anon (part of the dis-info network, but pretending to be TA)

Here's the basics of my "theory":

1) True info re Serpo is being spread in the form:

TA - Victor - ATS

2) PTB are doing the poopie-pants dance (MOD EDIT: Please don't circumvent poopie-filter.)

3) PTB need a "spokesperson"/Dis-Info Agent - they choose BR (whether they recruit him or he is part of them already, I'm not sure). They do this while deciding what to do next. The main point here is to make sure the "followers" TRUST BR.

We still have:

TA - Victor - ATS

4) BR goes public re Serpo so that BR *seems* to support Serpo while they still work out what to do. This is good, BR is building his trust.

We still have:

TA - Victor - ATS

5) TA is pleased by BR and announces that photo's will be released (maybe un-expected by PTB).

We still have:

TA - Victor - ATS

6) PTB silence TA, the PTB become FA and then FA fires Victor

We now have:

PTB/FA - Bill - ATS

------------------------------

So there you have it


Items 1) and 2) are pretty definite with my theory. Items 3) and 4) are variable. Items 5) onwards are definite.

This, of course, is a "theory" - as stated


I assume the aim would be for BR to build a greater "house of cards" so that the fall is greater but by BR "implying" that the info from FA (who we think is really TA) is "suspect" then it opens the way for BR to be used again sometime later...just in case something else like this "pops up" again.

Cheers

JS


[edit on 2-8-2006 by Valhall]



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 05:26 PM
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No I'm pretty sure there was no mention of printing. I do admit that this is a strange scenario, one which I won't even pretend to technically understand but thats not to say it didn't happen, who knows
. Bill is apparently In talks with someone from the intel community trying to decide If there is some sort of hidden Info in the 4.3Mb file.

There has also been talk not from Bill, and this is only speculation that the word program supplied by anon, was in some way modified to allow the manipulation. I again don't know if this is possible.



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 05:28 PM
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BH:

It can't be done. That's not my opinion, that's IL&M people opinion. That's Badger & Partners people opinion. That's high rollers who's job it is to make us Believe opinion. I don't normally pull my card with these people as I'm trying to get into that industry myself and I've been trying to save my cards with them... but that issue was driving me Crazy *shrugs*

If there IS some magic bit of software out there that CAN do that magic stuff, then who cares about serpo!

I wanna know more about the magic software and the secret process.

rock on
twj



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
How could a scanned drawing from a piece of paper, still have individually moving components in the new file? After being scanned from a paper? That's what's got me stymied.

I guess I'll never know.


This is just a thought, but he said that he scanned the printed JPG file into "a Word program supplied by Anon" (or something very similar), correct?

That raises the question -- what format was it in? Mac or PC? Bill's a Mac user. And if this is some proprietary software, does it have a name? If not, who created the software and what exactly does it do?

Centrist's Crazy Scan Theory

When Victor first started posting Anon's (original recipe) material to his list, he would remind everyone to "think outside the box". Ok... lemme do that for a sec...

Suppose this custom mac software that controlled the scanner did some sort of shape recognition?

Better yet, what if it didn't actually use the scan (but had to acquire the image to ensure the jpg print was present) and the program was, in fact, just a dummy that contained the actual file? That would also explain 1) the appearing/disappearing line; 2) the solid black in the "scan"; and 3) the shape recognition.

Is that too unrealistic? Or within the realm of a clever scheme to release information.. or an extraordinary hoax? Think about it -- there was the JPG file AND the program. Quite an interesting protection scheme, huh?

To VIEW the actual file, you would need to:

1 -- Have both files. This means that two people could have been preparing this at once, using deception to avoid detection. The person with the jpg (the apparent disclosure) didn't have the "real" material. The person with the program (not drawing attention to himself because he's just a geek writing code) uses seemingly innocuous data to create the word files, after verifying that the use is in possession of the "scan" (i.e., this is the keycard to access the system).

2 -- Have instructions on how to put the two pieces of the puzzle together. This about it? Who would have figured out how anything from either pieces of the puzzle? Even if someone found them stored together, would they have thought go perform the steps Bill says he went through to produce the GIF files? No.

So, we end up with three puzzle pieces -- the JPG, the Mac Software, and the instructions.

Is Anon's going to let us figure this one out for ourselves, or then is he going to send another "keycard" at a later date that unlocks what he really wanted us to see? Who knows. Given the 4.6mb file size, we have a clue that there may be something inside them that's worth looking at too. What other keycards will anon provide us with?

Hmmm.. Is sooooo crazy that it just might work? Or just some crazy idea that some spy novel writer is going to pilfer from ATS and use in some pulp sci fi story? Or were the scans just meant to toss cold water on this whole thing? We'll never know if we don't think about it....


[edit on 8-2-2006 by Centrist]



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 06:21 PM
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Well he could have compressed the original to make it smaller.
Sounds like bs to me.
Maybe it came with a decoder ring



Originally posted by Whiterabbit29
If anybody is interested in the process used, to convert the image from the file sent by anon, to the image posted on Serpo.org then this is according to Bill what happened.



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 06:26 PM
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[edit on 2/8/06 by dogberts not]



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 06:30 PM
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You know what. It does not sound that crazy.
But I highly doubt it. No reason to embed it when there is permission for a certain amount of disclosure.
Also rememeber, Bill said he set up a ftp account on the serpo domain server for Anonymous. Why not use this?


Originally posted by Centrist

Hmmm.. Is sooooo crazy that it just might work? Or just some crazy idea that some spy novel writer is going to pilfer from ATS and use in some pulp sci fi story? Or were the scans just meant to toss cold water on this whole thing? We'll never know if we don't think about it....


[edit on 8-2-2006 by Centrist]



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 06:34 PM
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double post...

[edit on 8-2-2006 by sandman658]



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by Centrist
This is just a thought, but he said that he scanned the printed JPG file into "a Word program supplied by Anon" (or something very similar), correct?

That raises the question -- what format was it in? Mac or PC? Bill's a Mac user.


Remember, he did this while he was in Switzerland. Does he carry his Mac with him? Is it a laptop?

Everything else you said sounded like "whoosh"! as it flew over the top of my head...


But keep up the speculation even if I don't understand the language!



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by Centrist

Hmmm.. Is sooooo crazy that it just might work? Or just some crazy idea that some spy novel writer is going to pilfer from ATS and use in some pulp sci fi story? Or were the scans just meant to toss cold water on this whole thing? We'll never know if we don't think about it....

[edit on 8-2-2006 by Centrist]


Centrist, not so crazy in the sense that certain programs can only read certain file types. Think Maya, 3D Max, Poser, Truespace, etc...

Not all, but there are programs that write, open, or edit only files created in their format, by their program.

It could be true in this case. (That's not to validate the diagram, just a clarification of how it could be done.)



G

Sandman did Bill post here about the ftp for Anon?



[edit on 8-2-2006 by garyo1954]

[edit on 8-2-2006 by garyo1954]



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 06:44 PM
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Would you not know you had two programs open and running to do the little hide and appear trick?

I would like to hear from torbjon on this one please.



Rock On Torb.


Springer...



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 06:51 PM
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I personally thinks Centrists idea is pretty good, thats If I'm understanding correctly.

The Lock-The word program

The Key-The e-mailed image(4.3Mb)

One is useless without the other!

This could also possibly explain why the image was so plain i.e no key, no labeling no real title simply put it was a diagram of nothing intended for no other reason but to unlock the program in some way.

I can't think where I read it off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure Bill was following instructions from anon about scanning the email image into the word doc, (which was also supplied by anon) otherwise why would anon have supplied it in the first place I will try to find it.

Who knows what maybe possible?

I'm just glad the thread is back on some sort of track where ever that may be leading!

Found it from Serpo.org:


The diagram below was downloaded, printed, and then scanned into a Word program supplied by Anonymous, all precisely as per detailed instructions.





[edit on 8-2-2006 by Whiterabbit29]

[edit on 8-2-2006 by Whiterabbit29]



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 06:55 PM
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Concerning the scanning, printing etc of an image. If someone receives an image in their email, type and format is dependant on the file extension.
There are many file extensions that are commonly used in sending pictures online, with .jpg being the most common. These types of pictures are considered static images, they are what they are. These type images remain digital until they are transferred into hard copy, in the case of a printer, they are transferred to a type of paper which is the hard copy.

With a screen shot, unless someone knows a way to change the file extension, a screen shot is saved as .bmp, and saved as an image. You cannot take a screen shot and then have movable parts in the image.

And just in case someone mentions an image map, that is done with html.

Now as for the receiving of images embedded into a type of program. Lets take MS Word, images can be embedded in a Word document, however someone must have MS Word or a compatible program that reads the MS word file extensions that are supported, they can then open and save the attached Word doc and open it with Word and modify that document.

There are many programs with many file extensions that can make and accept documents with images embedded. The person who receives these different type documents with different files extensions must have the same program or a program that supports the specific file extension if they want to modify the document with the images embedded.

Once anything is printed onto a piece of paper or anything that accepts the content, it is then in hardcopy form, you cannot move anything within any program if you scan that hardcopy back into a computer, it is then an image.

The term scan in this case is assumed to mean laying a piece of paper on a type of flatbed scanner and making a digital copy of that piece of paper and its content. The digital copy made on these type scanners is an image.

You can cut and paste or add to the document and modify the document, but you are modifying an image. But It cannot be scanned and then have movable parts. Simply put, if you have a Word document with embedded images and you print it, then scan it and save it, you are saving an image, it is an image, it is not a document with parts that can be modified as it could have been in the MS Word file extension.



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 07:02 PM
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[edit on 2/8/06 by dogberts not]



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by Centrist

This is just a thought, but he said that he scanned the printed JPG file into "a Word program supplied by Anon" (or something very similar), correct?

That raises the question -- what format was it in? Mac or PC? Bill's a Mac user. And if this is some proprietary software, does it have a name? If not, who created the software and what exactly does it do?

Centrist's Crazy Scan Theory

Suppose this custom mac software that controlled the scanner did some sort of shape recognition?

Is that too unrealistic? Or within the realm of a clever scheme to release information.. or an extraordinary hoax? Think about it -- there was the JPG file AND the program. Quite an interesting protection scheme, huh?



Well...this is my crazy experiments with the scanning...

I like a few others tried it everywhich way, the only way I could come close to "moving" the objects with a click was to scan it as a document with OCR, and save it as a PDF ( but it's no where near 4 meg, only 268k )...

Use the Select tool in Adobe, and click on some of the objects, now they don't move, but they do distort somewhat that's as good as I could get...

But as far as JPEG's in M$ Word...No..zip...nada...I couldn't do it...



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 07:30 PM
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You don't need two programs. It is used for transporting documents to vendors, etc. Your word program will work fine, but the received file is not a jpeg. Programs that read jpeg ADS are available. I don't know where.


If what is being suggested is the case, then it is not 2 programs, but a scanned image and the word program. I'm getting a little out of my depth on the technical side of things now, but could the word program be set to recognise the image, when it was scanned onto it?

Would a 4.3Mb file print and scan differently, than say a 2Mb file? I'm guessing it would be larger maybe this was also part of the key

I realise this is all wild speculation but the theory seems plausible, to me anyway



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by Jedi_Master
Use the Select tool in Adobe, and click on some of the objects, now they don't move, but they do distort somewhat that's as good as I could get...

But as far as JPEG's in M$ Word...No..zip...nada...I couldn't do it...


Sure.. but what I'm suggesting (and I'm not sure I believe it, I only think it's a reasonable interpretion of the process described by Bill)...

1 -- the jpeg file merely contains an image that when the "Word Program" scans it, recognizes it for access.

2 -- Yes, Bill carries his mac laptop with him, as far as I now. (for BH, I think)

3 -- the image that appeared on the screen with selectable objects was actually stored IN the word program -- the "WORD program" may not have been "Microsoft Word". That program may have just have the function of authenticating the user (by the scan) and then displaying a predetermined image in with selectable elements. All the scanning and testing with other programs will never yield the same result.

You see, this would explain the 100% black in the scans -- because the image viewed onscreen was NOT the scan -- it was an image (or other file) contained within the word program itself.

It's all just a theory, but it manages, in my opinion, to put all the elements that Bill told us together in a way that would make the file we've been given "legitimate". Whether we were intended to have the actual 4.6 mb file is still an open question.

Keep an open mind and ask yourself whether this is possible. I don't think it's likely, but it's possible, right?


WJ



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 07:52 PM
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whoa,

I missed alot.

Shows howmuch damage having a computer with a virus can do.Months without a computer.Man.

Serpo aye?

Any other important threads i missed.



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 07:55 PM
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Even though we already know the EbenObject drawing is bogus, I thought I would combine all the reasons why in a summary.

As you know the drawing was obviously drawn using a Borel R-22 Architectural drafting template, which was covered earlier.

This is the template
www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is Kinglizard's analysis matching several objects to the template.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is a close up of the “water closet” symbol used on the drawing.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

But here are a couple more things that are noticable. If you look at the image below, I have added some lines drawn in Microsoft Visio over the EbenObject image. These lines were drawn after importing the image into Visio, and I have not made any adjustments to straighten it out or align it in any way. The lines I added are perfectly horizontal or perpendicular, and as you can see, most of the objects are perfectly straight. All except one object by the red line that is slightly off. I also drew a 30 degree triangle to show even those stray lines are at a perfect 30 degrees.



What this means is that the drawing was made on a drafting table. At the bare minimum, a board was used with a t-square and triangles. The paper was lined up first and tapped down to keep it straight. Then the template was lined up using these additional tools. It is also clear that the outer lines were drawn using the 30 degree triangle.

So the conclusion is that this drawing was not made out in the field in some journal using only a template. It was drawn with additional drafting tools. If the team members didn’t have room for a microscope, I doubt they would have brought these tools along on the trip to Serpo.

T-square



45 degree triangle



30 degree triangle



Drafting table




Here is another thing that Skeptic Overlord pointed out. If you look at the image, there is an exclamation point near the darker lines. The character is printed in an Arial font which didn’t exist until 1982.





Arial was designed for Monotype in 1982 by Robin Nicholas and Patricia Saunders A contemporary sans serif design, Arial contains more humanist characteristics than many of its predecessors and as such is more in tune with the mood of the last decades of the twentieth century.

from www.fonts.com...


So I zoomed in, to take a closer look.



This is obviously an exclamation point, and matches Arial Black font in bold 16pt. font size. I printed then scanned the other three characters to show the comparison. They match pretty well, but these fonts were not used back when this drawing was supposed to be made.

What this means is the exclamation point is an obvious sign of tampering of the image and so the image can be declared a hoax IMHO. The question is though, did Bill put it there? Or did Anon2 put it there? It could have been done to discredit Bill, or what he will probably say it was done for is “plausible deniability”. Either way, the image is useless.

Cheers.


Mod Edit: by author request


[edit on 9-2-2006 by kinglizard]





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