Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

well Val you managed to clear up some mysteries for me. I still would like to know where Anon lives/works. I recall someone mentioning they knew this. Since Serpo looks like a dead subject here on ATS, what's the harm?

Originally posted by The Big O

Can we take what Victor said as the "original" text, and just disregard Bill's stuff?

One thing we can see is that Victor put a great deal of effort into clarifying what was being said. He handled Serpo very professionally.

He cleaned it up.
He explained where necessary.
And made it easy to follow and read.

Victor truly wanted to learn the truth, evidenced by Val's above post.
And has been said before he felt he had been "fired" when he was only doing what he understood to be his job.

so maybe we should loan victor some money and get him a cheap dell.
maybe he'll get some footage or something.

and I agologise val, if I lashed out at all, and felt insulted by my pestilence.



[edit on 6-2-2006 by waffleprime]

Originally posted by Valhall
Victor's webtv is disasterous at loading our pages. It crashes about every 3rd to 4th time he tries to load ATS. Further to that, Victor (unless in the past few days) has never even read serpo.org. His response to that question "Why would I? I've already read everything there." (And he - in his own mind - had. Either directly from Anon or through the email list that Bill Ryan was submitting "his" Anon submissions to.)

Nothing $100.00 wouldn't fix. I'll do my part to help get rid of this confusion by donating a real computer to Victor. Then he wouldn't have to worry about just recieving ASCII text messages, and having his emails deleted.

I don't know how I could get it to him being I'm in Indiana, so if anyone has a suggestion let me know.

Also, I'm not a new member on this board. I'm also not convinced that Bill Ryan is lying either. Possibilites include confusion due to jetlag, travel, and lack of sleep, things we know nothing about could be going on behind the scenes, or maybe Bill is being forced to make misleading statements through coersion; he says he recieved an alleged threat. Or maybe Victor is lying. Maybe both of them are manchurian cadidates fighting the good fight for TPTB. We just don't know.

In my personal conversations with Bill, he has struck me as a very honest and open person. The smear campaign is ridiculous regarding Ron's Org and his spiritual path. I use to be a mormon, but that doesn't mean I believe that Serpo and Kolob are in the same galaxy.

I've never spoken with Victor, but from what I've read, he seems like a nice enough guy who enjoys sharing his information with others.

So let's get Victor this computer, or any computer for that matter, and start getting to hard undeniable facts instead of what I feel are pretty convincing allegations.

Blessed be,

thirddensity

fed ex! we could fed ex it too him! I could reimburse you the shipping via western union!

He simply doesn't want a computer best as I can tell he's happy with his set up like it is.

He certainly does NOT need money based on what he's said to Valhall.

Springer...

but, he needs a computer

the messenger shot, the goose that laid golden eggs is cooked..... DEAD,DEAD.....ALL DEAD! ALAS! bill ryan victim of the vindictive valkyries' vengeance. Who will entertain us now?

Originally posted by Unplugged
I remember seeing people talk about this "Archquloid" thing before...

[edit on 6-2-2006 by Unplugged]

Archquloid

Okay unplugged, long thread, long search. Bill says:

"Victor posted this on his list last night, which he spliced into his reposting of the latest cloning account from Anonymous. I've only just read it."

The link:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


This was Bill's first mention after post #13.







[edit on 6-2-2006 by garyo1954]

Originally posted by Springer
He simply doesn't want a computer best as I can tell he's happy with his set up like it is.

He certainly does NOT need money based on what he's said to Valhall.

Springer...

Well, regardless, let him know the offer is on the table. If having a computer is one key to the many locks surrounding the knowledge of unlocking the mysteries of Serpo, I would think he would be all for it.

Originally posted by exsmokingman
Who will entertain us now?

If you want some real non-homoginized UFO sustenance, this might be a good start:
www.bluebookarchive.org...

Val alerted me that in the midst of our Serpo-Mayhem, some interesting development happened in the Blue Book world.

Uncensored Project Blue Book Microfilm Released
Blue Book Archive Newsletter - 15 November 2005

First 10 Rolls of Uncensored Project Blue Book Microfilm Released
When Project Blue Book was terminated in January 1970 its files were transferred to Maxwell Air Force Base (AFB) where they were made available upon request for public viewing until 1975. In 1975 these documents were microfilmed by the Air Force for internal use and then transferred to the National Archives (NARA) for eventual public release. Before microfilming these documents again for public release, however, the Air Force blacked out witness names and contact information in accord with its policy of protecting the privacy of witnesses. This was done despite the fact that the files had been available for copying and inspection by the public for many years without such deletions. In 1998 a set of the original unredacted Air Force microfilm was discovered at the National Archives and a copy was obtained by the Fund for UFO Research. In addition to witness names and information, it has been confirmed that these rolls contain some pages that are not on the standard NARA Project Blue Book microfilm rolls.

[edit on 6-2-2006 by SkepticOverlord]

Goosing It

Originally posted by exsmokingman
the messenger shot, the goose that laid golden eggs is cooked.....

Hey, Val didn't even wing him! :shk:

He just got spooked and ran off.

And for the record, ganders don't lay eggs.

Chide Of The Valkyries

Originally posted by exsmokingman
DEAD,DEAD.....ALL DEAD! ALAS! bill ryan victim of the vindictive valkyries' vengeance.

Hell hath no fury like a Valkyrie scorned.

Coming Attractions

Originally posted by exsmokingman
Who will entertain us now?

Funny you should ask that.

The strangest thing happened to me just now...

Date: Monday, February 6, 2006, 8:21 PM
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Project Serpo

Majic,

I've monitored your e-mails for about six months. I've read e-mails from you and others. But I've never seen nor heard the truth about the real Serpo incident or the exchange program.

It looks like Serpo got out of control. What's being posted now is NOT from me. I have the original documents, and as far as I know, no one else does.

I'm worried that some of my colleagues are on my trail, so I need to move fast. I need you to help me.

Through my contacts, I already know where to find you. Meet me at XXXXXXXX XXXXXX near XXXXXXXXXX at XXXXXX tomorrow.

Come alone. Bring a large bag. I'm going to give you everything I have about Project Serpo.

Don't let me down. The world needs to know.

I remain,

Anonymous


------------------------------------------
Tired of spam? Get a free email account from the Defense Intelligence Agency!
Special background investigation, polygraph examination, oath of obedience required.
Other terms and conditions apply.
Come check out the hot single agent chat at www.hot4u.personnel.dia.mil!
This message subject to warrantless surveillance per 18 USC 2511, et al.

Well, there you have it. Duty calls!

After tomorrow, the truth will be known because I, Majic, humble and scrupulous presenter of forbidden knowledge, will become the sole authority on the real Project Serpo.

Stay tuned, friends.

And pray that I get to Anonymous before the DIA does!









Edit: To add a part of the email I originally omitted. This change has been made in the interest of full disclosure, and not because three DIA agents are standing right here next to me.



Um, just in case no one figured it out, I'm joking. But there´s a point to the joke, if you get my drift. Hint hint.



[edit on 2/6/2006 by Majic]

God save us all, not another podcast...

What would skippy do?

Originally posted by Majic
After tomorrow, the truth will be known because I, Majic, humble and scrupulous presenter of forbidden knowledge, will become the sole authority on the real Project Serpo.

OMG... get ready for the "Project Serpo" 64-Volume Set as Annotated by Majic.

Please keep us updated on your anonymous' information. At this point your anon could be as good or better than anybody else's anon.

I do have a feeling yours will be much more "talkative", call it intuition.

Who can tell?

Springer...

[edit on 2-6-2006 by Springer]

Originally posted by thirddensity

Originally posted by Springer
He simply doesn't want a computer best as I can tell he's happy with his set up like it is.

He certainly does NOT need money based on what he's said to Valhall.

Springer...

Well, regardless, let him know the offer is on the table. If having a computer is one key to the many locks surrounding the knowledge of unlocking the mysteries of Serpo, I would think he would be all for it.

I'm in. I have several used machines and access to solid P4's. Nice little rigs. I can even do the shipping if needed.

The Psychic Skeptic

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
OMG... get ready for the "Project Serpo" 64-Volume Set as Annotated by Majic.

Hey, who leaked that information to you?

But now that the cat is out of the bag, be sure to look for my self-award-winning, personal-history-making podcast series sure to become an instant cult classic:

Riding The Serpo: My Serpo Story, By Majic
or, Never Give A Serpo An Even break
(Abridged version)

Going on sale soon in the ATS Store for the low, low price of only three easy payments of $29.99!

Glowing Reviews For Riding The Serpo

“That's not...” -- Bill Ryan, Leading Authority on Serpiantology

“I'm not sure...” -- Victor Martinez, Leading UFO Mailing List Administrator

“Majic, you'd better not...” -- SkepticOverlord, Leading Overlord Of Skeptics

“Where's my cut?” -- Springer, Leading Champion Of Filthy Lucre

“...” -- SimonGray (unavailable for comment)

Oh God, I am soooo banned now.

No, wait, that's not right. I mean to say:

“Incredible truths too shocking for AboveTopSecret.com!”

Yeah, that's the ticket!

Okay, now I'm soooo banned.

The Game Has Changed...

Centrist's State of the Serpo Address:

Originally posted by Unplugged

It would be interesting to get his take on all of this, since he has/is been in communication with the main characters in all this.

I was going to write a lengthy post to explain.. but I was looking through my "sent mail" box and think the actual events are better told by allowing those of you who are interested to see why I can no longer be supportive of Bill Ryan's message, in the absence of a clear, direct, and unambiguous response to the questions that Val, Skepticoverlord, and I have put to Bill.

Although I have been in communication with Bill by telephone and email rather extensively over the past few weeks, it has become apparent to me that he is more interested in Serpo's "publicity" than the advice of those he has asked to maintain "strictest confidence" recently.

I think the following exchange tells just how much interest Bill actually had in the very serious points I raised:

From: Bill Ryan
Sent: Thu 2/2/2006 11:19 AM
To: Wayne
Subject: The Serpo thread


Hi, Wayne –

Good to talk last night; I appreciated your time.

Is it true that there’s a vote to decide whether to close the thread or not? I heard that from XXXXXXX. I’d not seen that stated on the thread itself. If so, surely the visitors/members should know?

If this is true, it sounds like a compromise Bill has agreed with the antagonistic moderators (“let the people decide”). Do you have any inside info?

Best, Bill

My response...

From: Wayne
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:43:46 -0500
To: Bill Ryan
Subject: RE: The Serpo thread

Bill:

Actually... in this case I have no knowledge beyond what's posted on the board. I'm making the conscious decision to watch the debate before posting my views. I do think that the concept is ludicrous, however, as the whole purpose of ATS is for discussion of this nature. What would they do, ban all discussion of Serpo? But, there is always "flip" side....

In all sincerity, when I look closely at what anon has written, I don't see there being anything that would entice someone to continue believing at this point. The disclosure is riddled within inconsistencies, the promised photos have never appeared, and the people providing bits and pieces to confirm the story (Bob Collins, Rick Doty, etc.) are more suspect as the perpetrators of the hoax rather than the trusted authorities that will help us bring the truth into the open.

If there's any possibility of Anon helping these people get past the journal entries, now would be the time for him to do so. I suspect that this backlash is out of fear that ATS's publicity of the event is helping Anon conduct a more sinister goal of "stringing-out" his story over a long period of time, failing to provide any of the hard evidence that he might have, and then leaving the community "high and dry" (or worse -- selling his story in 4-disc boxed sets -- a very real possibility when you look at how other "disclosure" projects that have emerged with the same pattern as anon's have played-out in recent years).

In other words, if this disclosure plan is meant to play out with a large amount of plausible deniability, the interested community is not interested -- they should come back when they're ready to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Can ATS force anon's hand in this manner? I suspect not, if this is genuine. But, then again, Anon does have the power to get everyone's attention with some sort of post that gives those who wish to believe him a reason to continue to do so. In the absence of such a thing, those who wish to believe will quickly fall prey to those who either want to believe this is a hoax, or have seen this scenario play-out so many times in the past that they will refuse to believe anything anon says without more concrete proof and will consider it a hoax unless proven otherwise.

Sorry to be the messenger of such a cynical opinion of events. I'd personally be happy to see this play out in whatever manner Anon has chosen to play it out, but my view is simply to get at the truth -- whatever that may be. Please don't take this as my personal feelings on the subject, but my "interpretation" of the State of the Union as it exists on ATS now. Bottom line -- if Anon is for real and this is part of an actual disclosure project, he's gone too far astray of "plausible deniability" and is starting to cross the threshold into an unsubstantiated story that fails to be persuasive in the consistency of the story or the credibility of what little data has been released so far -- that page of orbital calculations that you have been asking for all this time would be quite timely right now.

It was good to speak with you last night, as well. I hope you've managed to get a bit of rest. If I hear anything, I will certainly let you know immediately.

Best regards,

Wayne

Bill's response?

From: Bill Ryan
Sent: Thu 2/2/2006 11:50 AM
To: Wayne
Subject: Re: The Serpo thread


Thanks, Wayne –

Where was the announcement of the poll posted on the thread?

Best, Bill

So, as you can see, although I attempted to privately raise the concerns with Bill as to the reasons why his "support" was dwindling on the ATS forum, he decided to rush headlong into his defense on the "poll" thread, rather than discuss the reason why ATS and its members were "calling shenanigans". Maybe Bill was just low on sleep, but he's become more and more evasive of hard questions put to him, both publicly and privately, recently.

Bill's stated goal was to be an "open and honest" messenger. Inconsistent with this was his continued need for secrecy. An inconsistency that was later coupled my personal frustration with Bill's lack of candor over 1) the IP addresses; 2) the fact that the "scans" do not appear to be "scans"; and 3) the FACT that Bill Ryan did not follow the instructions that he claimed to get from Anon and, instead of posting 4.6mb files, he posted 15k gifs. He violated the rules he held so sacred. Why? Why have these files NOT been posted? Jerry Pippin and Skeptic Overlord BOTH offered to host the large files for him. Yet he STILL fails to make them available.

I have waited to post a specific statement about all this until now, because I had hoped that Bill would do the right thing -- make an immediate offer to allow a neutral third-party to examine the IP headers of the emails he has from Anonymous, post the exact files specified by Anonymous, and give a reasonable explanation as to why he was not honest with those of us he expected confidence from.

It's been about 72 hours since this incident occurred. Bill, rather than address these issues, now posts on another forum. Good luck with that "golden thread" Bill. Although the reference may be lost on him, I'm sure a few others here will correctly recognize the references.

So, here's my "take....

1 -- the "Serpo" information is quite up in the air. I can't believe the information if I do not trust the messenger. As such, we do not know whether the "real" anon posted after December 8th. We do know that there was a "real" anon prior to that date, as Victor properly and commendably enlisted the assistance of sources who were capable of "vetting" the witness. Victor has confided the identity of his source to me and out of respect for my confidence with Victor, I will retain that information to myself until either Victor or the source wish to identify themselves.

2 -- Bill Ryan stated to me on the telephone that Anon had contacted him directly. This contact must have been by email. So Bill, regardless of whether there were "other" reasons why later messages were not "vetted" -- let Victor have the original. Victor already knows who Anon is, so how could you break any confidence by giving Victor's source the message you received as well.

3 -- Where are the files that Anonymous instructed you to post. Do you fear any repercussions from him if you fail to post them in the manner instructed? Your failure to have done so already is troubling.

4 -- Anon -- if you are listening (and I suspect you are) -- your messenger no longer has the faith and support of the audience you intend to reach. Please resume communications with Victor.

5 -- MOST importantly, to those who will "close the book" on Serpo and write it off as a hoax -- stop. Take a step back. Take a deep breath. This is not over. In fact, it may only just be the beginning. We do not know. What I do know is that there are people of considerable knowledge in this field that are still watching intently to determine where the source of this information is coming from.

I can assure you of this -- neither Bill Ryan or Victor Martinez is "Anon". I don't know who "anon" is... but I'd like to have a word with him If he's for real (which he may well be, despite the strange photos that Bill published -- which, I remind you, were NOT what Anon asked to have published!).


Finally... an open statement to Bill -

You wrote:

From: Bill Ryan
Sent: Sun 2/5/2006 6:12 PM
To: >Victor Martinez; Wayne
Subject: A message from Valhall


Victor, Wayne: this is the piece of poison in whom you both place so much faith.

Wayne, your reply below disgraces you.

Bill,

Quite frankly, the only thing that would disgrace me is to go against my principles and the reasons why I am involved in this at all, which I have reiterated to you over and over again. Disgrace is when you do not speak your mind with honesty and integrity. Maybe you didn't like my message, but it was meant in all sincerity. I could not continue to involve myself in this discussion in a manner that defends your conveyance of the Serpo disclosure relying solely on your "word", when you had not only deceived me with regard to the IP addresses, but had insulted a well-intentioned, respected member of this community. Moreoever, you broke your word to Anonymous and failed to post his material in accordance with his instructions.

Bill, you've pushed this story based on faith and told us that "plausible deniability" was likely to be something we would need to contend with from Anon. We understood that. However, there is no "plausible deniability" excuse available to the messenger. An honest messenger has no need for strict confidences beyond that which they extend to their source.

At this point, you have borrowed on the trust of others and used other people's reputations for collateral. I cannot stand by in good faith and "suspend disbelief" any longer. I will continue to follow what Anon posts, as none of this ancillary drama has been found to discredit any of the "actual" message. And there are those to whom you have introduced me that I do trust -- and those people urge me to maintain an open mind until this is over. On the trust that I have developed with those people through an honest, open dialog *based on trust* (not asked for in advance of earning it!), I will do so.

The door is always open at ATS, though. We only ask that you help us work through these inconsistencies. If this is a genuine event, as you believe it is, then that should not be hard. We may not get the answers we expect, but you've noticed that we're an open-minded group here. Just remember, in your own words, "the game has changed" -- we now must start over at the beginning and analyze the veracity of this information anew, knowing that you did not verify your "anon" in the manner we had been lead to believe. Now you'll need to pull many of us from the truly skeptical ranks and address us across the aisle -- but the truth does prevail in the end.

Regards,

Wayne


[edit on 6-2-2006 by Centrist]

[edit on 7-2-2006 by Centrist]

Originally posted by Centrist

Now you'll need to pull many of us from the truly skeptical ranks and address us across the aisle -- but the truth does prevail in the end.

Regards,

Wayne


[edit on 6-2-2006 by Centrist]

Very well said, Mr. Centrist!!

And the TRUTH is the TRUTH regardless of the messenger!!



[edit on 7-2-2006 by Shawnna]

Game Over

Originally posted by Centrist
The door is always open at ATS, though. We only ask that you help us work through these inconsistencies. If this is a genuine event, as you believe it is, then that should not be hard. We may not get the answers we expect, but you've noticed that we're an open-minded group here. Just remember, in your own words, "the game has changed".

Indeed. For those willing to honor the T&C, ATS is here for you.

While I must personally leave open the possibility that Bill Ryan is being misunderstood, and continue to urge him to resolve any misunderstandings he can, publicly, right here on ATS in front of God and everybody, the preponderance of the evidence presented so far indicates a pattern of evasiveness and deception on his part that is impossible to ignore.

Refusing to address these issues here after promoting Serpo.org so vigorously on ATS is a statement unto itself.

Until such time as Bill Ryan sees fit to honestly and thoroughly explain the glaring discrepancies in his testimony, he has disqualified himself as a credible spokesman for the Project Serpo disclosure.

If anyone else is willing to step forward with information about the truth regarding Project Serpo and the process of its disclosure, now is the time to do so.

The time for games is over.