Originally posted by Valhall
I've got news for you, I know where he lives and where he works. And I didn't even want to know that much.

Well, if you know who and where Anon is, then tell us, is he who Bill claims he is? Is he reliable? While we wait on Bill to confirm the IPs on postings 12-15, surely you can now tell us how much validity we should give postings 1-11. I'm sure I speak for most on this thread when I say your opinion on the reliability of Anonymous would be most welcome.

I didn't say I knew who he was! This is how stuff runs away with itself. I said I know where he lives and where he works. I do not know his name, nor does Victor nor does Bill. Why, because none of them, nor I, care.

Next Level, you are a wise person.

I get where you're coming from on the IP thing. What I meant was that I'd take you're word on it that it's not worth trying to explain because it's not as significant as some think.

In regard to the present tense being used in the diary entrys, I think this is really neat info.

I noted that it is possible that this writing style is just a side effect of the type of person they selected for this position. I'm trying to tackle the possible angle.

I know how my personal narrative style is, and I've studied other narrative styles, so I find it interesting to see a "non fiction" narrative style that uses present tense.

SOme people do think this way, and write this way. And the type of person they selected for this mission may just be that type of person. However, I don't have any scientific studies I can look at to try and peice together the type of profile of a person who would write this way.

I think, if we can piece that together, although not 100% reliable, we might be able to see if this is legit or not. For example, if we find out the profile for this type of writing is akin fo a fat middle aged black woman (nothing racially negative intended), we can be pretty rest assured the person writing the diary entry is fake. However, if we find that style of writing is akin to white middle aged males with strong discaplinary histories, perhaps it is likely that it is legit.

I think you can see what I'm saying here.

-O

Originally posted by NextLevel

Now, comes a question for pondering: if it's this easy to fake, can we not just assume Bill is faking them? That makes this very easy then for us to concentrate on analyzing data and information, not the source(s) or transit routes of the data and information.

No we can't. That would take Bill knowing what to fake. Bill does not have any knowledge of IP information from Victor's Anonymous emails. So...it's a moot point.

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by NextLevel

Now, comes a question for pondering: if it's this easy to fake, can we not just assume Bill is faking them? That makes this very easy then for us to concentrate on analyzing data and information, not the source(s) or transit routes of the data and information.

No we can't. That would take Bill knowing what to fake. Bill does not have any knowledge of IP information from Victor's Anonymous emails. So...it's a moot point.

Correct. Then my point is re-iterated: how does IP addressing and/or email header information relate in any way to the actual information that is released to us for review?

In other words, are we more concerned with the veracity of Bill R's claims to one degree or another concerning the aforementioned, or are we more concerned with the actual provided information? I see more of the former and much much less of the latter.

Originally posted by NextLevel

Correct. Then my point is re-iterated: how does IP addressing and/or email header information relate in any way to the actual information that is released to us for review?

In other words, are we more concerned with the veracity of Bill R's claims to one degree or another concerning the aforementioned, or are we more concerned with the actual provided information? I see more of the former and much much less of the latter.

It depends on what you're wanting that information for. Saturday night reading online for entertainment? IP doesn't matter. Printing off and using in your out-house? IP doesn't matter. Establishing true disclosure? IP matters. Because things changed significantly and started to contradict themselves when the change-over occurred.

Serpo.org is going to keep getting updated - by Bill. But we don't have to sit here and ignore the fact that what appears to be a significant effort at discreditation started taking place in the third week of December.

We also don't have to sit and take Bill stating he knows his source compared to Victor's when he has refused to even compare. That much I know for sure.

On Side Blitz

Originally posted by Valhall
We also don't have to sit and take Bill stating he knows his source compared to Victor's when he has refused to even compare. That much I know for sure.

If Bill's source has been hijacked for discreditation, then the sort of material that has been released since that time would do an excellent job of it.

I don't see Val's and Bill's goals as being incompatible.

Reasonable and important questions exist about the integrity of Anonymous as a source.

Ensuring that a possibly sincere Anonymous has not been replaced by a malicious hoaxer is consistent with the goals of all of us.

Unless I'm mistaken.

Originally posted by Majic
Ensuring that a possibly sincere Anonymous has not been replaced by a malicious hoaxer is consistent with the goals of all of us.
Unless I'm mistaken.

Majiic;
Excellent observations. It has however been exposed on previous posts by others that the earlier writing is flawed too. When you look at the overall Serpo writings from beginning to end, there is a consistent amateur flavor that has been addressed by dozens of people on this thread. What was written before 13 a and b looks to be (as does the latter work also) something fabricated and not what it is purported to be.

This should be a very major clue for you as to what is really going on.

[edit on 2/5/06 by dogberts not]

Originally posted by Valhall

This isn't about "outing anon". This is about making darned sure you do what you should have already done and that is

vet your source by all means possible. Which you pretended you had done, but actually refused to do. So we're on the right track now. But please don't waste your fingers trying to turn this to something it's not.

Val - you assume Bill cares about whether or not this is FACTUAL. He could care less. I've said it before, and I'm going to say it again -

Because of Bill's underlying applied philosophy (based on L. Ron Hubbard's Dianetics and Scientology auditing techniques), he was chosen by the PTB to be the PAWN in this "game".

Bill believes whatever he is told and does exactly what he is told to do BECAUSE HE SEES HIMSELF AS BRINGING FORTH DISCLOSURE.

What he may not realize is that the PTB could very well be using Serpo for another purpose.

PTB = Powers that Be

[edit on 5-2-2006 by Shawnna]

Originally posted by NextLevel

In other words, are we more concerned with the veracity of Bill R's claims to one degree or another concerning the aforementioned, or are we more concerned with the actual provided information? I see more of the former and much much less of the latter.

Nothing on Serpo.org has been validated, other than some minor personal details pertaining to the site's webmaster. All are things posited by some unknown person(s) through a supposed intermediary, as you well know. Since the information cannot be proven true, then it is not true, half-true, or any twisted variation of true.

Since the information can't be validated on it's merits alone, checking the source is the pertinent thing to do in order to know whether waiting for more data is warranted. Personally, I determined that it is not worth waiting for and dumped this in the hoax bin way back on page 20ish - long thread, eh? - but I thought i'd just help out Val here. (Not that Val is in need of any as she seems to be pushing the appropriate buttons on her own.)

[edit on 2/5/2006 by Obscure]

Originally posted by Shawnna

Because of Bill's underlying applied philosophy (based on L. Ron Hubbard's Dianetics and Scientology auditing techniques), he was chosen by the PTB to be the PAWN in this "game".

You did it again!?! Once again you've spouted off this drivel (in BOLD, no les) as if it were the Gospel Truth, 100% Factual, not any possible chance it could *ever* be wrong!

Shawnna you really need to ask yourself... how many times now have you made claims and BOLDLY proclaimed them to be FACTS and later found you were 100% WRONG? How many times now have you apologized to Bill for your "mistakes" (and made your inevitable excuses for them)? How many times do you think you'll get away with that nonsense before you're completely written off as someone who can't *ever* be trusted a credible source of verifiable information?

Seriously, it may behoove you (and your Household Think Tank) to be a bit more careful with you choice of words and think, really THINK, and perform some proper Due Diligence before you click that post button, lest you look like Eternal Fools, and be put on Ignore by many.

Oh, and in this day and age I would have thought it was common sense, but it appears you may need a reminder... don't take the gibberish of opinionated, agenda-ridden, Cut&Paste Kings on an Internet Forum to be your sole source of "proof" about *anything*.

Think about it.

Originally posted by YYZZYY
You did it again!?! Once again you've spouted off this drivel (in BOLD, no les) as if it were the Gospel Truth, 100% Factual, not any possible chance it could *ever* be wrong!

Hi again, VICTOR - so nice to see you on this forum!

Truth hurts when it hits you upside the head doesn't it?

Originally posted by YYZZYYShawnna you really need to ask yourself... how many times now have you made claims and BOLDLY proclaimed them to be FACTS and later found you were 100% WRONG?

Whenever I've been wrong about something, I have immediately, and publically acknowledged that. And it is usually because I've misread one of Bill's posts.

Oh, and in this day and age I would have thought it was common sense, but it appears you may need a reminder... don't take the gibberish of opinionated, agenda-ridden, Cut&Paste Kings on an Internet Forum to be your sole source of "proof" about *anything*.

Think about it.

I'm sure you would like this to be my source - but VICTOR - it is not.

Now why don't you come clearn with who you really are and why you are on this forum? I bet it won't be to acknowledge how much of a PAWN you are or what your motives might be. At least Bill has been honest about that!

Psychic Friends Network

In fairness, the only person who can truly know Bill Ryan's motives is Bill Ryan.

While there are some unresolved and worrisome issues surrounding Bill's position in this wriggling kettle of sandtrout, and I'm concerned about his role as the perpetuator (if not perpetrator) of what I consider to be a self-evident hoax, I still haven't seen anything which conclusively indicates that Bill is guilty of intentional wrongdoing.

Thus I recommend being circumspect about pointing fingers at anyone until the facts clearly support accusations or condemnations, and even then, I think it's best to avoid the trap of unnecessary bitterness.

Despite my skepticism regarding the Serpo hoax itself, I refuse to attribute to malice that which can be explained in other ways.

Originally posted by YYZZYY

Oh, and in this day and age I would have thought it was common sense, but it appears you may need a reminder... don't take the gibberish of opinionated, agenda-ridden, Cut&Paste Kings on an Internet Forum to be your sole source of "proof" about *anything*.

Think about it.

Dear serp0an0n@yahoo.com (nice spoof - I liked that, pretty comical),

I'd suggest before you lecture others about due diligence, you might want to consider that there are some "amateur spooks" out there doing plenty. Beyond cut & paste I'm sure. Thanks for the IP by the way.

A word to the wise.

-rdube02

IP verification doesnt mean #! ANON could be moving, post from work or hat home or a friends house of in another counrty ...........IP relivance means NOT A GOD DAMN THING.

Billl btw , imho nice work keep it coming when you can,. let the skeptics disbelieve and the rest of us will try to see if there is truly "TRUTH" in all of this.....

Originally posted by box
IP verification doesnt mean #! ANON could be moving, post from work or hat home or a friends house of in another counrty ...........IP relivance means NOT A GOD DAMN THING.

Billl btw , imho nice work keep it coming when you can,. let the skeptics disbelieve and the rest of us will try to see if there is truly "TRUTH" in all of this.....

I'm sorry - did I make the impression that the IP was relevant or even important? And who said anything about Anon? Just expressing my thanks. What are you so angry about my friend? By the way, this thread of sock puppets isn't so much one of finding "truth" as trying to push your agenda on us. No thanks.

While this story may be partially true, a hoax, or *cough* all true - we can figure it out ourselves. We don't need it force fed to us by a group of people with their own agenda.

Thanks for your time - see you in the next dimension...

-rdube02



[edit on 5-2-2006 by rdube02]

Thanks everyone for saving me from the Serpo hoax. Now I can get back to the really important things in life; comedy central and the sci-fi channel. And if there's a Serpo book, sorry. I don't read books.

My personal motto to not get too involved with "groups" seems to pay off. My God. After reading some of the stuff by these Ufers I suddenly feel extremely sane. And that's saying a lot.

Spooks to the left of me. Ufers to the right. Here I am stuck in the middle with you.

so, yeah. how's everyone doing tonight? me I'm fine and dandy!
nothing like a good ol'fashion slugfest to keep the ol'disclosure train a'runnin.

so, what wen just went down anyway? I kinda got lost and missed the behind the scenes fun! someone should lay it all down! so the ignorant arn't left stranded on serpo.