Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

Originally posted by Centrist

Here we go.

A theory suggesting why the Project Serpo Disclosure may be genuine

Interesting analysis there, Centrist. Quite. Perhaps the proverbial nail has been gently tapped into place, awaiting one mighty blow.

We, as cynics, eagerly clamor for disclosure. Though I wonder, will any of you accept what is presented if and when we receive the evidence so vital to erasing this quandary?



[edit on 12/8/2005 by Obscure]

I understand the desire to want to believe, I want to believe. But I can’t swallow this stuff. (and I can swallow some pretty crazy stuff)

What I find even more hard to believe is that some folks here seem to be working overtime to try to prove or justify Anons story when it’s nothing more than a story.

There’s no fuzzy photograph.

There’s no shaky hand held home movie badly compressed into a tiny little .wmv file.

There’s no poorly scanned .pdf document.

There’s no .jpg, no .gif and no sound byte.

Just some guys story on some guys web site and a whole lot of man hours being spent by folks here at ATS (and elsewhere) trying to justify it (or disprove it)….

Hey, I got some far out stories on my web site, too. Have at it. *laughs*

But that’s the kicker.

There are a LOT of far out stories out there, written by a variety of people in a variety of styles, but this Serpo story is getting alla the traffic… why? I’ve read the thing and even a gung ho believer like me has a hard time buying into it…

Some folks here have suggested that this is the “powers that be” way of preparing us for disclosure… does anyone here Honestly Believe that or do we just Want to believe that?

I’ve spent a few hours plunking various buzz words and phrases into google and yahoo and serpo.org doesn’t make the rankings. The only way I’ve gotten it to pop up in the top ten is to ask for it by name… who is going to know to ask for it by name and how does that help to get the word out?

For those of you who know me, I’m a nobody. A real bozoboy. Zilchguy. What I want to be is a freelance digital editor. Go to yahoo and type in freelance digital editing and see who pops up in the number one spot… and I’m a NOBODY! (if you put “freelance digital editing” in quotes I pop up number two on google…)

A nobody can get good placement and good coverage with just a little bit of work.

“Alien exchange program” does get serpo.org into the top 100 (not that great but it’s something) however chat from this and other forums ranks Higher than serpo.org with that buzz phrase… and that’s Not the best of buzz phrases for ufo researchers (even though that is what the story is about)

META tags (keywords) for the serpo.org site are:

"Serpo, Eben, Zeta, Reticuli, Zeta Reticuli, exchange, 1965, 1978, 78, Victor, Martinez, Victor Martinez, Bill, Ryan, Bill Ryan, UFO, planet, DIA, Defense Intelligence Agency, Intelligence, Agency, Defense, Defence, EBE, EBE-2, EBE2, Roswell, Corona, Datil, Project, Project Serpo, Otto, program, exchange program, Anonymous, planet, Silus, binary, star, binary star"

which is fine, but not alla That great… note that “alien” is not in the meta tags, nor or a buncha other buzz words and phrases ufo researchers might use to locate information…

Truly, if somebody wanted this information to “get out there” then circulating it through a bunch of people who already believe it and then forcing them (us) to shove it at the non believers really isn’t the way to go about doing it, is it? Believers are already taking enough flack as it is…

How about a few scanned pages from the “red book” sent to NPR or CNN? How about a little headache inducing information about the chemical make up of Serpo soil? A blood sample from an EBE??? A fuzzy photo of Something??

Because having believers trying to convince skeptics (and the world at large) that this story could be true is The craziest part of the story and I think it’s down right rude of Anon to dump this off on us.

Give the skeptics something they can actually work with and quit teasing the believers.

Tob, if there was a picture, we would all think it was photoshopped. And that is the truth.

Anon just put up another post (10a) on the site...

He claims that he is going to send the site's webmaster four photos. These will be photos of the team members outside of an eben home, ebens playing their soccer-like sport, and pictures of the northern team camp.

He also said that he will post a journal entry from one of the team members.

If this is a hoax the photos should be the deciding factor... but... if this is real these pics could be the greatest thing you will ever see.

Anonymous is going to step it up a notch and release photo, I cannot wait to see them. Its true they will make or break this whole thing !

[edit on 8-12-2005 by helium3]

OMG! This is incredible- I cant wait to see them and the debunking that goes with them.
I hope they are real.

I WAS JUST AT THEIR SITE AND THERE IS NO NEW POST.

[edit on 8-12-2005 by dgtempe]

i hope we dont get a 5 minute amateur photoshop hand job with the pictures. This is great news.... the speculation needs to end!

The only thing we need now is the proof. -- me

Thanks for the update from the Serpo site I guess Anonymous thinks so, too. I'm amazed at the level of detail and the promises they've made. If these photographs aren't all they're cracked up to be, then this thing could unravel quite quickly. I suspect the photos will be of dubious character -- they may depict scenes that will make sense, but a combination of possibilities such as photo-editing, CGI, and other effects will make them of marginal utility in determining how real the story is.

Here's the grandiose prediction....

Once the public sees these photographs, even our skeptics, die-hard debunkers and those who claim that this is all a "non-event disclosure," will scratch their heads in total amazement! [They're not from a Hollywood movie set.]

— one photograph shows the entire Team standing next to an Eben home, with several Ebens standing in the background;
— another photograph shows the Team's new home in the north;
— another photograph shows an Eben village in the north;
— another photograph shows a group of Ebens playing their "soccer" game.

You'll love them!

One group member has a fool-proof way of sending them. I'm not sure of the exact method, but I'll let you know just prior to his sending them. Either they'll be sent to you (or Bill directly) in encrypted form or a special military courier will bring them to you from a special unit within the DIA.

That sets a very high bar. A military unit within the DIA acting as a courier to (no offense to Bill Ryan)... but to Bill Ryan? Rather than try to speculate further on what they'll do to get out of this apparent jam, I decided to look into who Bill Ryan was and what he's published in the past. The only thing I could find was this article, which makes me wonder why they chose him? To be fair, though, I don't know for sure that this is the same Bill Ryan. If someone knows of him and has links to his other articles, please post them.

Torbjon wrote--
What I find even more hard to believe is that some folks here seem to be working overtime to try to prove or justify Anons story when it’s nothing more than a story.

It's not about "justifying" anonymous' story. It's about investigating it. My last post simply presented "food for thought" on whether there could be some truth to this. Part of being objective is to look at different aspects of the story and see whether they are consistent with reality. What got very interesting about looking at the document classification issue is that it did show a scenario that we cannot rule out for this story to be true. A side note to that was how the facts point to Brent Scrowcroft as the most likely kingpin of whatever "MJ-12" style group might presently exist -- think about it, the private consulting company that doesn't need to report its finances to anyone (except the IRS, but they don't have to give them out either). Then there's the apparent way in which he has hand-picked people for the NSC -- one of whom is now the secretary of state. I could write a whole article of the possible reasons for this.

Anyway, as you can see, I can come up with more than a few things that I find interesting from a simple story like Anon's. I expect it to fizzle out at some point, just like every previous promise of disclosure -- and I've seen a few, having been studying this stuff in the early 80's in BBS's at 1200 bps But no matter how the story looks at the start, you would be amazed at how much you learn by doing a fair and thorough investigation... even though it's always the case that you end up finding the flaw in the hoax or why the evidence just isn't sufficient to "prove" what many of us believe to be the truth.

About a week ago, I sent a question to them about the element: bismuth. It was found at the Roswel site and has been said to lose weight and possibly be able to make gravity thrust when its wired with high voltage. So I asked if there was any configuration they know of that can make it produce thrust.

I haven't seen anything at the SERPO site about bismuth or thier AG devices at all. I would say an AG device would be alot more solid then a wonderful story as I can make most anything if I can get the parts. I would openly discuss and prove an AG/free energy device if I got one to work, however I don't think they would start releasing the tech untill they had full control of it or us.

[edit on 8-12-2005 by XL5]

Ufologists, by nature, crave credibility. It is what validates their life's devotion. What puzzles me somewhat, is that none of these big-wigs in the ufological field, who are supposedly in this e-mail group with Victor Martinez, are coming out and denying this story. Surely they know that it can be traced to them. (see: Stanton Friedman, Phillip Klass, etc)

Furthermore, accroding to Bill Ryan during the interview, many of these experts have checked their various sources and received responses that this story is worth seeing through to the end. A possible indirect message being: "We, as ufologists, believe that this is what we've been waiting for and don't want to jump the gun."

As such, while they are not openly saying "This is disclosure, right here! Read this site!", they are associated and their credibility is at stake.

There's always another way to look at bits of info such as this. Suppose it is a smoke screen. Something very convincing, yet only having the purpose to further cast the shadow of doubt upon these would-be "nutjobs" whom ascribe to fanciful stories of benevolent aliens flying around in their peacekeeping spaceships.

While I certainly hope this turns out to be the real deal, until I see hard, veritable evidence I cannot ascribe to Project Serpo. For the time being my money is on the latter of these scenarios. I think this is being done to discredit the Ufology field for unknown sinister reasons.

i've been reading this thread ever since it first started and i'm very excited about the new post (dec.8) saying that they will include pictures in the near future...

Once the public sees these photographs, even our skeptics, die-hard debunkers and those who claim that this is all a "non-event disclosure," will scratch their heads in total amazement! [They're not from a Hollywood movie set.]

— one photograph shows the entire Team standing next to an Eben home, with several Ebens standing in the background;
— another photograph shows the Team's new home in the north;
— another photograph shows an Eben village in the north;
— another photograph shows a group of Ebens playing their "soccer" game.

You'll love them!

oooooohhhh cant hardly wait

That post really didn't inspire me. Maybe it's the way this Anonymous writes:

The show caused a lot of buzzing in the halls of the DIA!

Once the public sees these photographs, even our skeptics, die-hard debunkers and those who claim that this is all a "non-event disclosure," will scratch their heads in total amazement!

I don't know if this person is just overly happy or what, but I just don't picture someone from the DIA writing like this. Would the halls of the DIA really be talking about the George Noory show like this? Why is Anon all fired up about proving something to the skeptics (I didn't know there were debunkers hard at work already)? I would expect more of a response that is quietly confident. I guess I'm looking for that bit of a beauracratic tone that you get from someone in a high position...this sounds a little too exhuberant.

Ok my other problem is that this Richard Doty guy has his finger in a lot of this story from the past and now...plus he's promoting that new book of his. And low and behold when I go to Amazon.com I see Bill Ryan has written a glowing review for him on Dec. 2nd! How nice to have a buddy like that.



The only person I know so far in this story that actually has seen these aliens is Lonnie Zamora. Whether this Serpo stuff is borrowing from him to promote the hoax or if this really does tie together is where I'm studying the situation. These sites are helpful:
www.cufon.org...
www.nmsr.org...
www.nicap.org...

As is Richard Dolan's book UFOs and the National Security State (pages 273-277). There is a lot of info in Dolan's book that talks not only about Zamora's sighting, but a number of other sightings in the White Sands/Holloman AFB area around April 24th-30th. Plus he also talks about the increasing number of UFO sightings from around April 1964-1966. Depending on how you see it, these stories can either help promote the idea that these Serpo aliens were visiting us more or that the Serpo story is just a flat out lie and borrowing from the UFO folklore, since it sounds like according to Anon that they just landed and took off and said we'll see you in a year in Nevada!

My biggest issue is the flame coming out of the bottom of Zamora's/EBEN UFO. It makes me wonder if Anon has got himself caught right there...

The Ebens developed a different type of electrical and propulsion system. It was unknown to our team and I don't think we ever really understood it. They were able to tap into a vacuum and bring back an enormous amount of energy from that vacuum.

Does electrical push out a flame? Did Anon screw up and forget to write "electrical and chemical propulsion system"? I would think our 12 members would understand how a "thruster" works? Of course I know, this could be something different but the Zamora "physical evidence" was a charred ground and vegetation. Is this a two stage engine where a booster is needed before a electrical field propulsion starts? Am I giving away too many hints to the guys at Serpo.org so they can talk their way out of this?

Ah, guess I need to enjoy the ride.

Torbjon...you're right no physical evidence means all this is just a story.

Centrist...you rock, I sneak on here at work just to see if you've posted something new in your "investigation".

In fact a lot of people are really quite thoughtful on this thread...just pat on the back to 90% of you.

A possible indirect message being: "We, as ufologists, believe that this is what we've been waiting for and don't want to jump the gun." -- Obscure

You make some good observations. Either scenario is possible, although I'm not sure I see this as a direct disinformation campaign, you can't rule this out with Richard Doty involved. Also, I'm still not sure this isn't a carefully planned hoax, a la Project Mask -- a proposed plan perpetrated by prominent Ufologists to force government disclosure, or at least prove that that the government is conspiring to conceal information.

Nevertheless, at every turn this story gets more interesting. Just a few moments ago, I noticed a new comment on the Project Serpo comments page.

For whatever reason, someone obviously thought Close Encounters an important film... -- December 8, 2005

This is just weird. Why the two CE references recently? Is the apparent weirdness supposed to make us believe this is validating the sincerity of the storytellers? Odd.

And then there was this comment after the update...

Ebens were thousands and thousands of years more advanced than us. They had different forms of navigation systems, which I will discuss in great detail later, probably 2006. Update 10(a), December 8, 2005

Looks to me like we're in for a long ride... but if this is going to drag out over months, they had better throw us an evidentiary bone to chew on while we watch.

Pictures, huh?

Well that is pretty exciting ... And just when I was scratching my head wondering where they all were, too.

I agree that with the name dropping going on here it could end up going either way. With the larger profile UFOlogists involved, is there anyone here who would be willing to drop them an e-mail or something, just to get their thoughts on this?

Also, what is going on with the negotiations between the administration of this site and the Serpo representatives regarding a Q and A/interview on ATS? Any new news on this?

I really cannot wait to get a look at these pics. There is something inside that keeps telling me that they will be largely inconclusive, but I can only wait and see.

Even if this does turn out to be a hoax (as we've all seen too often in the past), I'm pretty happy to be on the ground level of this one.

And why doesn't this thread get more traffic itself? I think the lack of crappy posts makes the thread more accesible, but it is quite odd that there are not 6 or 7 pages in a row with zero information ... I like it!

Keep up the good work people. If there is anyone I trust to go on this journey, it's you guys.

Originally posted by Obscure
While I certainly hope this turns out to be the real deal, until I see hard, veritable evidence I cannot ascribe to Project Serpo. For the time being my money is on the latter of these scenarios. I think this is being done to discredit the Ufology field for unknown sinister reasons.

Given the fact that disclosure has not happened before, the safe money is obviously on the side of a hoax. But I can't think of why a disinfo campaign would be happening now. Who are they trying to discredit and why? I say this, because I have noticed a pattern.

Could it be that back in the 80's, when Richard Doty was working with Linda Howe, was because maybe she was getting close to the story? He keeps saying "I wonder who her sources are?", and maybe it was his job to find out who was leaking the information. I think that befriending someone is an effective tactic to find out who her sources were and try to cover up something like this. But what has happened recently to warrant another disinfo campaign? I can't think of anything.

edit: The fact that an actual form of disinformation sanctioned by the government shows that there is something to hide. I was taken aback by the explanation that Doty gave on C2C. If you haven't heard it, it is definitely worth listening to. He explained that he started out in counter intelligence, but like Hynek became convinced later that there was something to the UFO phenomenon. That is why after he left the military in 1988, he became a UFO researcher and wrote the book with Collins. It does seem suspicious that this is happening after releasing the book Exempt from Disclosure in April. But after reading the reviews, there is no mention of an exchange program in this book. It sounds like they go into back-engineering and classified documents.

Originally posted by Enrikez
Also, what is going on with the negotiations between the administration of this site and the Serpo representatives regarding a Q and A/interview on ATS? Any new news on this?

Ditto, anything new?

And Centrist, I think your examination with the presidential order was extremely interesting, and deserves a way above. It could be maybe the red book was not declared exempt from disclosure and is now available for declassification. But I would still think that if the powers that be wanted to, they could still keep it classified and shut down this whole thing.

You have voted Centrist for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

I don't know if this is for real or not, but I will certainly be waiting to see the pictures. I wonder though if they make them available on the website though. The way he posted, it sounded like he might only want the e-mail group to see them, and not make them public. Otherwise why would he send them encrypted? I think they better make it public, or a lot of people will be disappointed and toss this one in the can.

[edit on 12/9/2005 by Hal9000]

I think we all want to believe. Who wouldn't? But we have been desensitized by decades of hoaxes and ruses. Odds are it's a hoax. But if the scenarios we've heard about over and over for decades (Roswell crash, live alien, black projects reverse engineering, etc.) had a seed of truth behind them how would we expect the disclosure to occur? The people originally involved in the whole Rosewell incident and subsequent events are aging. They've been dealing with all this for almost all of their professional lives. The government's credibility has been recently damaged (Iraq, Katrina, etc.). Perhaps these individuals have decided that this information needs to be disclosed. Perhaps the reasons for keeping it all under wraps all these years just don't seem as compelling to these people. It's most likely a hoax. I sincerely hope it's not. But we all need to let it play out... just like all the others before it.


[edit on 9-12-2005 by jtma508]

correct me if I am wrong but isnt the Zamora incident, about an egg like object that was shinny or white and had pole like landing "arms" and this happened in the desert, he was some kind of police man in Arizona and he chased the thing as it made several hops and then he saw it land and two "beings" get out for a few moments and then there was a popping sound and the beings got back in and the craft took off again...

if this is the case, Nasa has already released the information on that incident and in fact was some type of Propane powered lifting body that they were testing. Hence the flames coming out of the bottom. It was a test platform for not only chemical gas propulsion but also single nozzle vectored thrust. Kind of like a mechanical test platform for the variable nozzle desing on the FA22.

Some accounts say it was oblong and cylinder like, this because the central crew area in a bubble center with two chemical components on either side of the crew bubble and the nozzle assembly directly under the crew bubble.

Running the "thruster" for extended periods of time chilled the "gas" and reduced the pressure in the fuel cells, thereby reducing the amount of ouput. They landed so that the pressure could rebuild and then took off again, explaining the hopping movement.

But this might not be the Zamora incident and something else.... my brain does not work right these days sometimes

www.weirdload.com...

YES, here it is...

With a little prodding, Tea-Mex explained he was a machinist who at one time hung out with a bunch of fellows from some unnamed contractor to the military in central New Mexico. (Most likely involved with White Sands, because not only were they able to get custom-milled aluminum and steel parts, but practical advice from on-site aviation experts. But that’s getting ahead of the story.)

Anyway, these guys started playing around with the design of a engine described in Popular Mechanics which consisted of two pistons on opposite ends of a rod shuttling back and forth between combustion chambers. Since the pistons didn’t do anything but make a lot of hot compressed exhaust gas, it was considered merely an impractical toy.

After melting a version cobbled out of old lawnmowers, the boys got serious. They machined parts at work, hiding them in a dumpster for later retrieval — “involuntary contributions from the aircraft industry” as Tea-Mex put it. By the time they were through, they basically had a vertically-mounted jet engine that spun like a gyroscope, powered by propane. Once they mounted a big fan atop it to increase the cooling airflow, the lift, combined with the thrust of the exhaust, was enough to allow the device to actually fly.

Of course, nothing for it then but to build a light frame with fixed landing gear, put a couple of chairs in for the pilot and engineer, and encase the frame in white aircraft aluminum. One sheet had an old logo on it which they attempted to paint over with abstract “characters” in red. They called their egg-shaped contraption “the Bean” because it looked somewhat like a lima bean mounted on four toothpicks.

Being essentially a really big flying gyro, the ship was quite tricky to manuever, requiring two people, who dressed in jump suits with motorcycle helmets. On one test flight going into a strong headwind, the guys had to land abruptly in an arroyo right off a highway. But being spotted and chased by a local cop, they quickly hopped back in and took off again.

They weren’t quite so lucky this time and some distance away suffered a crash landing that wrecked the Bean, though they were unhurt. But they were stuck: they couldn’t patent or sell the damn thing because all the parts had been scrounged or otherwise ill-gotten. Nor, having been totally unlicensed, dare they come forward. So they secretly trashed the ship but didn’t have the heart to junk the engine, which is still quietly rusting in somebody’s garage somewhere out there. End of story.

The biker finished his beer and rode off. Tea-Mex had never mentioned the policeman by name, though one of the guys had said he’d recognized him. Nor do any other identifying names whatsoever appear in the story.


The details are a little mixed up, and I doubt that it was actually a two piston gyroscopic engine that provided the thrust but the fact is, the Zamora sighting was an engineering toy to develop some current "white" technology. The guys were aerospace engineers and they were working on the apollo lunar lander project. They developed all sorts of test toys and components out at the white sands range during this time period.


[edit on 9-12-2005 by robertfenix]

Anon did not claim to be talking about the Zamora incident. Other people made the connection between that incident and Anon's claim that an Eben craft was test flown by Project Serpo team members in the early 60s.

I think that it's very important to make sure that we're clear, here, about what Anon has and has not said. People keep debunking interpretations of what Anon has said... or connections that other people are making for him... while confusing what he has said with what others have interpreted him as saying.

the one major thing that turns me off from the whole thing is that they weren't even CLOSE to right on the second crash date...

i would like to think its true but i really dont know. you would think whether the story is true or not, they would have reviewed the facts and atleast got the dates right

I am just saying you can not use the zamora incident to site credible CEIII events. Because while the projects were classified and some designs may still be classified the reality is that Zamora happened to see some early Nasa test gear being played around with in the desert.

Just normal humans and some engineering junk