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Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

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posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by chapman
I saw this information in 69 or 70 in Whitehall. Originally it was a CIA document authored by a lady named Alice Bradley Sheldon.




Ole Chap! You just don't jump on the bandwagon today, drop a bomb and then disappear. You got info? Show us some facts, show us some docs. If you have proof then less see it, otherwise the good folks here are ATS will have your lunch! We would all love to see this thing brought to a conclusion, one way or the other but this sort of ambush from behind the rocks doesn't help the situation at all! Show me the money!




posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 11:09 AM
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With the absolute, upmost respect I must add that it's a good point you have there and the establishment should've been simplified back then. Having more than two messengers is overkill and reeks of an Al-Qaeda technique of couriers.
But we should ask ourselves, "How many couriers or messengers does it take to get a story or statement out to the front?".
If this was designed to go on the internet on-screen to be published, all Anon had to do was contact ATSNN 's professional moderators directly instead of journalists. To do this directly to the mods shows absolute sincerity and professionalism as if this is to say, "We or I have something you should look at and bears some disclosure. After all, this is your website and you have the power and choice to reveal this to the discussion boards and we'll respect that".
After all, it is EASY to be a 'ghost writer' in the guise of Anonymous with any body of work, be it novel, film, article, etc. I think we're dealing with a ghost writer (not Ghost Rider of Marvel Comics...which is still a cool character, btw).
If someone in the federal government knew they would get caught and busted for posting classified information like this on a website nonchalantly, not only would they get caught..we could bear the brunt of that ramification or consequence. Indirectly, they are endangering us in a sense which is why government disclosures should be viewed with scrutiny. If this is real and the government still wants it secret, they would've asked the mods to shut it down unless they know that their presence validates it and are using 'mole's on this site to 'encourage' the continuation of this thread. I can't prove it but it's in theory.

More so, the Serpo journals/logs...there are holes in it. Even if they say the time on their watches can't be used, I believe that military/intelligence agents would still use the 2400 military clock for record-keeping on the logs and for activity co-ordination. After all, it's the professional thing to do.
It's what the watches or time-keeping is for..unless ruined by electro-magnetic activity..I think they would use regular stop-clocks and not digital (which I don't think came onto the market until the 1970s).."We meet at this juncture at 0800 hours"...they'll know what it means and time their activities accordingly without losing track. It's called discipline. After all, there's no way they would be in their late teens or early 20s going up there...too young and immature to do this kind of project. I think it makes sense to send people in their early to late 30s, or early 40s to do this since they are seasoned professionals and to make this kind of journey and project takes a lot of mature and professional decision-making processes.

I still think military/astronauts can use Earth time anywhere and use the 'per revolution' cycle for each planet they pass by. After all, it's the 2400 time clock that helps us know when our bodies are getting tired or not..after all, how would they know what time to go to sleep or wake up?
Something to consider.
I suspect that whatever watches they were using are made of special material to prevent electro-magnetic activity from screwing them up.

Again...my 2 cents (you may quote on that again)...

-Sanctum1972



Originally posted by Freenrgy2
Also, the sending of mail to Bill Ryan directly goes against what I thought was the established protocol. (anon ---> victor ---> bill)

This absolutely makes no sense.

Futhermore, if this went against the established protocol, then why did Bill Ryan feel the need to publish it? Because he got the super-secret code and knew it must be from anon. And which one (the 85%, 13% or 2%)?

I'm not ready to shoot the messenger, but explanations are in order.



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by Freenrgy2
Also, the sending of mail to Bill Ryan directly goes against what I thought was the established protocol. (anon ---> victor ---> bill)

This absolutely makes no sense.


Unless Anonymous was not happy with the way that Victor "edited" the messages. Victor, by his own admission, made numerous "fixes" to what he received from Anon to make it "flow" better for the reader. This may have been contrary to Anon's wishes to have what he sent published unaltered.


I'm not ready to shoot the messenger, but explanations are in order.


I think (although I certainly do NOT know) that Bill may already have aware of Anon's email address. If you want to think about something -- many of us are on Victor's list, just like Anon. His email address is sitting my my box, amongst quite a few others. Bill Ryan's address is on the list, as well. Anon knew that Bill was running Serpo.org and was the public "face" of his (anon's) disclosure. Why is it so hard to comprehend that Anon decided to go around the Victor (whose list included the entire DIA/CIA disinfo/intel corp that has been around for years) and go directly to Bill to have the information "posted" rather than "edited".


Color me naive, but I'm not ready to call it quits on a 109 page thread and something very interesting because some guy who registered yesterday said it's fake.


While I find Chapman's statement to be a HIGHLY credible suggestion, it is truly only an extrapolation of what Skeptic Overlord has been suggesting since Day 1 of this event. Chapman added a name and some surrounding "evidence" to bolster the possibility that his point is true, but nothing to sink our teeth into.... if Chapman is truly "in the know", rather than just an eloquent pundit, he'll know how to convince us.

Then again... what if Chapman is not trying to convince us, but is just trying to confuse us.

Oh wait.. we're doing that just fine all by ourselves



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 11:23 AM
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To me it seems quite obvious why Anon bypassed Victor and sent the information straight to Bill Ryan. Bill Ryan has basically been the voice on Anon since the beginning. He’s the one who generated the website, he’s the one who’s on the radio and speaking at conventions, he’s the one who is publicly discussing and analyzing the story in an effort to expose the truth. Anon is not stupid, whether a hoaxer or not. I’m sure he is well aware of the growing publicity this story is getting. He sees people’s respect for Bill Ryan and their belief that Bill isn’t hiding anything.

Combine this with the fact that Victor has been accused of being part of an elaborate hoax, or changing the original posts, and also being criticized for not keeping original records of them. Is it so hard to believe that Anon would consider Bill Ryan as a better contact to release this information? I may be wrong, but it appears that Victor doesn’t seem very interested in this story in comparison with Bill. I for one am more confident that the truth is more likely to come out with Bill being the direct contact with Anon. I mean no offense to Victor, as I’m sure he is also working his butt off behind the scenes, but Bill does seem like the prime choice to be the objective voice of Anon.

Some people have been saying “why not release all the info at once, if the goal is disclosure”. I myself have said this. But now I look at the attention that this story is getting, good and bad, and see that this is an effective way to get people talking. Many of the hard core skeptics are even following this story very closely. If this is true disclosure, I believe that any “proof” or evidence will be presented towards the end of the postings, where it will get the most attention. If Anon would have posted the many pages of all the postings as well as any proof all at once, how much attention would this have gotten? I honestly don’t know. It might take a while to get people to notice it.

I’m not sure where I stand on this whole thing, but I know that I’ll be watching and waiting for more info, right to the end.



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by lucianarchy
interestingly, i heard that victor made a post on the 'list' a few hours BEFORE bill disclosed the latest from anon.

all it said was "BIG TIME HOAX: WHAT ELSE HAVE WE BEEN HOAXED ABOUT RECENTLY?! it came with an attachment, which i believe contained an old hoax which was first staged in the mid 50's.


where'd you hear this?



Originally posted by WHOFLUNGGUM Firstly all one has too do to see my point is to simply review the posting by members of ATS right here on this thread and you will shutter at the spelling alone!


but will we shudder? always a good idea to check your spelling before accusing someone of poor spelling.



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 11:29 AM
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Hi, Folks,

Just acknowledging that there are a lot of messages I've not read (I've just heard about Chapman's post in an personal e-mail to me from an ATS member and have read it once, quickly). I've not read the last several pages of ATS.

I'm away all day today until late, so this is just to let you know I'm still around. I always knew this would be a very busy week for me logistically. (I return to the UK early Monday morning.)

There's no intention here not to respond to questions, although there are many questions I can't answer (simply because I don't know the answer!)... and I also ask you to understand that I cannot reveal any details of the source of the information I received. It would be unethical of me to do so in these circumstances: my judgment is that it's of paramount importance that the source is fully protected... the first rule of being a reporter who can be trusted. What we need is still more information. Although this is confusing, we're better off (in data terms) than we were a few days ago.

I'm still personally convinced that this release was a audio transcript from a source behind Anonymous. All the indicators are there. If this is the case, many other previously noted anomalies can also be explained. I do suggest that's a valid line of enquiry... though I may be wrong.

More later... I'll be back late tonight Pacific time. By then I expect there will be another ten pages to read...!

Best to all, Bill



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 11:30 AM
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we have been served the honey flavored and irresistiblely delicious dessert known as "the hoax" we all swallowed it and are now clamoring for more.

this fellow is not serious. he has shown irresponsiblity to the ATS community and for that should now be ignored barring further photographic evidence.

basically people... don't be a fool. know when to stop. its time to move on from this waste of time. and all this discussion about this is only making it more appealing for the next hoaxer to take a stab at pulling crap like this...



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 11:34 AM
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Centrist,

I concur in that Bill Ryan has taken center stage in this ongoing play as the public face of 'Serpo'. His website and his appearance here on ATS in my mind and probably Anon's as well makes him the go to guy now. If I were Anon and I was monitoring what is going on then I too would have taken this step! It makes sense. I am interested to see know how this new twist will play out. Anon, if for real has to like the way the info is being dissected by ATS through Bill Ryan!

[edit on 25-1-2006 by WHOFLUNGGUM]



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by Centrist
I think (although I certainly do NOT know) that Bill may already have aware of Anon's email address. If you want to think about something -- many of us are on Victor's list, just like Anon. His email address is sitting my my box, amongst quite a few others.


Centrist - this would be believable, however all Bill has told us is that he knows it is Anon, not how he knows. If he says that he has known Anon's address from the beginning and this last update came from that email address - I would accept that. But I was under the impression he not only doesn't know who anon is, but has no way to contact him as well. I guess maybe I had the wrong impression.

It needs to be made clear exactly how Bill knows updates are from the real Anon and not someone from this thread. I'm all for accepting someone's word on their honor, but due to this last update and the amount of information that seemed "seeded" into it in order to appease some of the skeptical comments made in this thread - I think we need to verify that this last update was from the "real" Anon.

-rdube02



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by Crakeur


Originally posted by WHOFLUNGGUM Firstly all one has too do to see my point is to simply review the posting by members of ATS right here on this thread and you will shutter at the spelling alone!


but will we shudder? always a good idea to check your spelling before accusing someone of poor spelling.




Accusing? Not exactly, I was merely pointing out a fact. Many as I, get in a hurry and do not go back to edit their spelling. This just proves my point.
Besides I didn't mispell the word shudder, I simply used the wrong word!
Which again proves my point!


[edit on 25-1-2006 by WHOFLUNGGUM]



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by Crakeur

Originally posted by lucianarchy
interestingly, i heard that victor made a post on the 'list' a few hours BEFORE bill disclosed the latest from anon.

all it said was "BIG TIME HOAX: WHAT ELSE HAVE WE BEEN HOAXED ABOUT RECENTLY?! it came with an attachment, which i believe contained an old hoax which was first staged in the mid 50's.


where'd you hear this?



i know someone on the list. i promise you, that is 100% correct. i have seen the post. someone here will confirm it, i am sure.

bill? did you think that was just another coincidence with victor posting that yesterday?



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by lucianarchy

Originally posted by Crakeur

Originally posted by lucianarchy
interestingly, i heard that victor made a post on the 'list' a few hours BEFORE bill disclosed the latest from anon.

all it said was "BIG TIME HOAX: WHAT ELSE HAVE WE BEEN HOAXED ABOUT RECENTLY?! it came with an attachment, which i believe contained an old hoax which was first staged in the mid 50's.


where'd you hear this?



i know someone on the list. i promise you, that is 100% correct. i have seen the post. someone here will confirm it, i am sure.

bill? did you think that was just another coincidence with victor posting that yesterday?


It is true. The HOAX story from Victor was about a photo from Popular Mechanics 1954. It showed a Submarine training console that said in caption,
" This is how a computer will look in 2004". Someone pointed out the console and Popular Mechanics responded themselves claiming the photo a Hoax and that they never printed it in 1954. Victor labeled it a Hoax because the day before, he sent it out as fact. He more or less caught his mistake and let everyone know. That's about it!! I wouldn't put anymore into than that. Totally unrelated to Serpo!!!

Click link for more info

www.popularmechanics.com...



[edit on 25-1-2006 by Jeddyhi]



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by Zep Tepi
For those who don't know who Alice Bradley Sheldon / James Tiptree Jr. was, here's some info:

www.us.imdb.com...

www.starhaven1.net...



from the second link

Overwhelmed by the pressures of CIA life, Bradley soon dropped out. In 1967, at the age of 49, she completed a PhD in experimental psychology, and on the day she finished, she wrote her first short story.

That is interesting stuff. Nice job Zep, let us know if you find anything else.



Originally posted by thirddensity
Here is a list of books that Alice Brady Shelton has written. I'll be checking these books out as soon as I can find them.

This could turn out to be a good lead.


[edit on 1/25/2006 by Hal9000]

[edit on 1/25/2006 by Hal9000]



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by Sanctum1972
Even if they say the time on their watches can't be used, I believe that military/intelligence agents would still use the 2400 military clock for record-keeping on the logs and for activity co-ordination. After all, it's the professional thing to do.


Exactly. There are very strict procedures for military records, and this journal is a joke.
They use a very strict 24 hour period, they would never of had a discussion about it.
They would of had a permanent guard rotation, and the person on watch would record everything that happened in the logs.
The fact that the Team Leader went back to bed "the bowl" before confirming the location of his entire team is against protocol.
Anyone who is in the military can point out these obvious signs, and shows that the author probably hasn't had, or had a very limited, military background.

Bill - Even an audio transcript doen't make it sound any better. I re-read it as an audio log and it is just as ridiculous. Someone earlier pointed out that he specifically says in the journal somewhere "writes in journal" so that pretty much rules it out.

And then... for you to offer up the possibility that a written journal was later made into audio form and then back to written form, is not only laughable, but certainly shows you defending it a little too much.
Your supposed to be in the same boat as us remember?

I am having fun reading the banter and speculation, and watching the fence sitters. This Project Serpo is entertaining in more ways than one.

Edit - the amount of effort people are going through, to check a name, or to research each lead is incredible, even when they know better. Which reminds me, how is the thread summary coming along?


[edit on 25-1-2006 by KDX175DUEX]



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by Jeddyhi Victor labeled it a Hoax because the day before, he sent it out as fact. He more or less caught his mistake and let everyone know. That's about it!! I wouldn't put anymore into than that. Totally unrelated to Serpo!!!


anon promised pictures in his next post to victor.
victor received a picture and sent it to the list claiming it was a real picture of something....apparently unrelated to SERPO.
Victor then sends out an email declaring his previous email of the photo to be a haox.
anon then sends an email directly to Bill Ryan, skipping Victor for reasons unknown.


why did victor send out the picture? in what capacity? he thought it was a real photo of......something....and realized it was a fake. He is also aware of anon's real identity.

is it just me or is something really started to look wrong here?



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 12:51 PM
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Centrist: Appreciate the explanation and it is very logical. But I'm thinking that woudn't anon preface his release by indicating to Bill that he did not like the way Victor was handling this so, therefore, he is changing the protocol.

Bill could have informed us of this new distribution method as well. I consider it highly dubious when information distribution is changed mid-stream without clarification. We can assume all we want, but we can't be 100% sure this is the intent.

As far at the link to the fictious picture of what a computer will look like in 2004, this is something I have 1st hand knowledge about. I served in the US Naval Nuclear Power Program and attended reactor prototype in Poquonok, CT back in the 80's. What the picture shows (minus the TV and printer) is, I think, Adm. Hyman Rickover (father of Naval Nuclear Power) along with the panels found in the manuvering room onboard a nuclear-powered sub. The reactor prototype I went to was named S1C (USS Scamp), which stood for Submarine, 1st genertation plant by Combustion Engineering. Later, I served on the USS Pennsylvania (SSNB 735) which housed an S8W reactor (Submarine, 8th generation by Westinghouse).

The panels you see are IDENTICAL to what we had in our prototype plant. The one furthest to the left would be the throttleman's station, the middle panel is the reactor operator station and the electrician's panel is on the right.

So, that picture is indeed a hoax.



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 12:55 PM
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Well, it looks like Alice Bradley Sheldon was in fact CIA. By her words, she was a senior photo intelligence person by then. I've joined some groups and am asking questions to all the James Tiptree scholars to see if they have ever heard mention of Serpo or something that reads similar.

See here for more info:

mtsu32.mtsu.edu:11072...


Exerpt:

"Anyway, I didn't like [what was happening in the CIA]. I was trying to do basic science in intelligence and just didn't fit. One evening I left the safe open--the only time I'd ever done that in my life. I caught it after twenty minutes and vent back, but I knew that my subconscious was speaking and that if I didn't listen to it I would do something much worse. So I quit . . ..

"They tried to keep me in . . .

"I was all choked up with Ting because I was having to submerge myself to help him. He was in a very high pressure job as Chief of Current Intelligence . . .· And so I ran away. I used my clandestine training to disappear. In a day I had a new name, a new bank account, had rented a house and really destroyed all traces of my former personality, including sanitizing my books and everything else.



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 12:57 PM
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there's no questioning the picture being a hoax. what is curious, however, is why Victor sent it to the list one day and then, a day later he declares it a hoax.

why send it out in the first place? if it is unrelated to SERPO, what was it for?



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 01:03 PM
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One more note about Alice Bradley Sheldon.

At George Washington University, she began work on a doctorate in Experimental Psychology, which she finally earned in 1967.



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by Crakeur
there's no questioning the picture being a hoax. what is curious, however, is why Victor sent it to the list one day and then, a day later he declares it a hoax.

why send it out in the first place? if it is unrelated to SERPO, what was it for?


I've been on Victors list for a couple weeks, and the majority of his emails are unrelated to Serpo. Articles concerning Ufology mostly. And other things. I did get the new log before it was published on the site though. It was from Bill this time, not Victor, and looked to have been forwarded to everyone on the list. Looks like you gotta put up with some spam in between serpo related updates lol.



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