Originally posted by robertfenix
Really ? looks to me like HK already had a working model of the JCP back in 2002. Whether they call it the USP or UCP or MK23 Mod (1). The basic fact
is that HK is the top applicant for the new .45ACP sidearm. And yes the UCP (P46) and USP are close enough that they share a good portion of the same
technical design spec's.
Please tell me, what are you trying to prove here? All I did was responding to your obviously erroneous first post stating that you believe the M9s
were being replaced by Mk.23 USSOCOM pistols, that this is intended to be the "JCP" and that this pistol is the full size USP (which it is not, the
USP is the full size pistol, else it would have a "USP" somewhere in the name to designate its familiarity)
Then in your answer to my post you suddenly slipped in the USP Tactical to prove your point. But USP Tactical =/= Mk.23, no matter how much
commonality they really share. To both you cite links that either say nothing, or that work in favor of my points - I cited direct parts of the
solicitation that worked against accepting the USP Tactical and the Mk.23. Remember, this was still about your claim that M9s were due to being
replaced by Mk.23.
And now you are fabricating a connection with the UCP, although your own link clearly states the intended use of the UCP: to be a companion to the MP7
with its AP cartridge. Even the name reflects that: USP (Universal self-loading pistol) designates the intended allround capability of this family of
weapons (sporting, defense, LE, Military...), while UCP (Ultimate Combat Pistol) clearly designates a solely intended use in military combat. Above
that it doesnt sport a .45 caliber as is required, and the grip with a width of 30mm is thinner than the .45 USP (32mm) and the Mk.23 (38.8mm) - so
creating a true highcap magazine might be a problem (also a requirement).
And please share your intimate wisdom on the commonality of the USP and P46! I would be happy to hear about it given the fact that NEITHER official HK
resources even list the pistol, nor do 2 of the most popular and correct web resources on HKs (HKPRO and Maxim Popenkers site) claim any definitive
knowledge of the specific weapons design.
So either you bring up new facts supporting your initial claim, or simply accept that you were misled in that statement. I do not doubt that HK has
the best chances of being chosen as the JCP supplier, but almost certainly NOT with an already existing model.
By the way SOCOM is not a gun, just a specification division for the department of defence.
I know what SOCOM stands for, thats why I wrote it in brackets. However it is also the unofficial nickname of the Mk.23, for two obvious reasons:
There is a BIG "USSOCOM" stamped on the slide, and the weapon was specifically made according to and for SOCOM specs. (And while we are at
hairsplitting, the correct abbreviated designation for that Dod division is "USSOCOM". And it isnt the "specification division", it is the
overseeing institution of all the lesser branch-specific SOCs)
Originally posted by robertfenix
HK45 is a new USPc (for combat) replacing the UCP concept P46
Read above, or maybe even read your own sources. P46 is designed to give AP capability in a sidearm package. If anything the HK45 is going to replace
the older .45 USP models. HK has not released any statement on this - as well as they havent said anything regarding the HK45 project in public as of
[edit on 2/12/2005 by Lonestar24]