US Military Dumps the 9mm

All the criticism that the 9mm and the M9 (Beretta 92FS) have taken over the last 20 years have finally come home to roost - we're going back to the .45ACP.

Link

www.cbd-net.com...

It's about time! That was a dumb decision to switch to the 9mm, and I never understood it at all. Glad to see they finally came to their senses, after a long long time, and are going back to the good old .45s.

I like the .45 ACP. I carried my Colt Government about town today when making some rounds. I also have a revolver with the moon clips which shoots .45ACP..and a very accurate revolver it is too. It is a five shot target grade revolver called a Tarus Tracker. I really like it for shooting targets at the range but for concealed carry I prefer my .45ACP Colt Government or my .357.
I am glad to see them going back to the .45ACP. The local constabulary has done so here after trying the 9mm and .40 calibers.

Thanks,
Orangetom

About time. The 45ACP is a good all purpose type, compared to the 9mm.

I think you may have mis-understood the information. That was a military supply requisition for the U.S. Special Operations Command, not the entire military. SOCOM will be issuing the .45ACP as standard official issue. That doesn't mean grunts in the infantry are getting issued them. Team guys always get the high-speed gear.

That's pretty impressive if its' just for SOC. Considering they're getting 645,000 of them.

The estimated Maximum quantities are: 45,000 no external safety JCP configuration and 600,000 JCP with the external safety configuration

I think the USMC, namely the SOC MEU's, still use the M1911 A1.

I am also pretty sure the Delta's still use them as well.

Spec ops of the calibre of Delta can choose any weapon they want for any mission they want, as long as they can a) use it and b) justify it.

Witness Randy Shughart in Mogadishu using an M14 in .30cal/7.62NATO instead of an M16 variant.

Some ASAS will still use the SLR if they feel they need that kind of knock-down power.

While British SAS went for the HK MP5 early, ASAS chose the Ingram because it fired off a closed-bolt.

As for the criticism of the 9mm, the Europeans went for it early and stuck with it. And the FN "Browning" HiPower was designed by that genius John Browning as an improvement on the 1911 Government.

I don't really like the 9mm. I've shot one many times, trying to see if it got better as time went on, and I really just don't like the Browning. The H&K on the other hand, is a sweet little 9mm. Full frame, metal, nice and heavy, good solid gun.

Um, not intentionally getting the wrong end of the stick here, but you do know they are two totally different types of weapon, don't you? One is an SMG and the other is a pistol.

I'm talking about the Browning 9mm pistol that the military uses, and comparing it to the H&K 9mm pistol that I shot last time at the range..

The Commonwealth militaries use, that's true.

The Heckler and Koch MP5 is the sub-machine gun chosen by the SAS as their standard HRT/CT weapon. Since adopted by most CT units and seen in such movies as Who Dares Wins and SWAT.

Yeah I know it is. It's probably the most popular SMG out there with HRT guys, because it's so accurate and nice to shoot. They make a nice little 9mm pistol too. That's the only 9mm pistol I've ever shot that I like.

Can anyone give a report on the Smith and Wesson 459, which lost out to the Beretta M92 for reasons which, as far as I can tell, were purely poitical?

I wondered why some US troops were swiching to thier old .45s. Never really liked the Berreta 92Fs as much becouse it replaced the 1911s. I do like the 93R Model though. Did you know Full auto handguns are from Russian origin not Italians although the Germans made a full auto Mauser.
Full auto handguns date back to Russia in the late 1920s/Early 1930s but this was only a suggestion for thier Officers so basically the Germans took the idea and brought it to the Mauser.

Look for Stechkin APS or the new OTS 33 Pernach.

Were here really to talk about Ammunition, I think the 10mm round would come useful maybe but the .45s are more for military use. I also prefer built in triggers/Single actions like on the 1911 Government Model not skinny things like the berettas much although i still admire the Inglis/Browning Hi Power pistol.

Look for the 'Bren ten' Pistol. One of my favourites in the 10millies.

Here are some Gun sites. The best site is the bottom one.

world.guns.ru...

www.securityarms.com...

[edit on 1-12-2005 by Browno]

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
...
While British SAS went for the HK MP5 early, ASAS chose the Ingram because it fired off a closed-bolt....

If you are referring to the Ingram MAC M10, this is not true. That one fires from an open bolt (like the majority of SMGs), while the MP5 fires from a closed bolt (the first-shot accuracy is one of the reasons for its popularity in LE).

Originally posted by Winchester Ranger T
All the criticism that the 9mm and the M9 (Beretta 92FS) have taken over the last 20 years have finally come home to roost - we're going back to the .45ACP.

Sorry, but you are a little too quick here. From your link:

The USSOCOM intends to issue a solicitation to obtain commercially available non-developmental item (NDI) Joint Combat Pistol (JCP) system, Caliber .45 (ACP).

I like some of the French pistols although they made them in 7.65calibre. Would be better in 9mm or .45 deffo.

The Russians do make some interesting weapons although me and most people are more into western/NATO stuff.

Just a small correction, the M9 service pistol is a beretta 92FS, not F, common mistake i see often enough.

I've owned a Cold Mark IV Series 70 (the last of the single-action Colts), and thought it was a bad gun. I got it with exactly seven rounds through the barrel, and found out that about every fifth shell ejected would fly back and hit me in the nose (which is not conducive to keeping a sight picture!); and I'd keyhole at least one round in a box of 50 cartridges. So I ended up getting the breech throated, and get the ejector port enlarged, get a new barrel bushing so the gun woul shoot in the general direction I was aiming it, and finally get a set of tritium sights. My "bargain" $300 Colt ended up costing me almost $600!

If the Army procures a .45 ACP gun equivalent to the "stock" MK IV Colt, I think they'll be getting as piece of junk.

I've never owned a Beretta #92, but I have owned the Glock 17 and the Ruger P-85, both of which I thing would be more cost-effective then the Colt.

For the regular grunt as opposed to the elite guys, I think a 9mm would be every bit as good and would have tremendous logistical advantages over the .45 ACP gun.

For the elite weenies who don't mind lugging around that extra mass and need the suppressed round (obviously, a .45 ACP round can be suppressed way easier than most 9 mm rounds because the .45 is subsonic), then go for the old slab-sides.

FWIW, I got rid of my autoloaders ten years ago and the only handguns my family have now are .357 revolvers, but that's a personal choice.