Ice found below Mars' surface!

Oh wow, this has really excited me, i think we are gonna find our first interplantary neighbours very soon:

news.bbc.co.uk...


Ok probably no chance of intelligent life, but if there is water there will be microbe life. And that HUGELY increases the chances of finding complex life outside the Solar system. If proved and discovered it will have profound implications on our view of the Universe.

Woo Hoo, i am doing cartwheels now, this is our best discovery so far!!!




MOD EDIT: Changing a misleading title.

[edit on 11/30/2005 by cmdrkeenkid]

The existance of extremophiles right here on earth dramatically raises the prospects for extraterrestrial life. This would just make the prospect a little more likely and frankely if we find some hot spots with liquid water on Mars I will wager that we WILL find life there! The more and more we look out into the universe the more probable it becomes that lots and lots and lots of life is out there maybe allot closer then we think.

[edit on 30-11-2005 by sardion2000]

Oh, okay, thanks dude.

[edit on 11/30/2005 by Amorymeltzer]

With the thin atmosphere on Mars, it is probable that any ice would/could, evaporate almost immediately instead of just melting into liquid water. Just the warmth of the sun could be enough to create vapors of water. In my lurking here, it has been mentioned before somewhere as possible.

Originally posted by TheBrontide
With the thin atmosphere on Mars, it is probable that any ice would/could, evaporate almost immediately instead of just melting into liquid water. Just the warmth of the sun could be enough to create vapors of water. In my lurking here, it has been mentioned before somewhere as possible.

Well I was talking about underground hotspots. Theoretically if there is heat(energy) and soluble liquid that is non-combustable then you could find life. Water would be the most likely liquid to find life.

Originally posted by sardion2000

Originally posted by TheBrontide
With the thin atmosphere on Mars, it is probable that any ice would/could, evaporate almost immediately instead of just melting into liquid water. Just the warmth of the sun could be enough to create vapors of water. In my lurking here, it has been mentioned before somewhere as possible.

Well I was talking about underground hotspots. Theoretically if there is heat(energy) and soluble liquid that is non-combustable then you could find life. Water would be the most likely liquid to find life.

Yes, but,...

When we consider that water consists of two gases--oxygen and hydrogen--in definite proportions, and that without their presence in these proportions and in the necessary quantity the development of organic life would have been impossible, we find that we have here a remarkable and very complex set of conditions which must be fulfilled in any planet to enable it to develop life.

The atmosphere is so intimately associated with water in its life-relations, and is itself so absolutely essential to the existence from moment to moment of the higher animals, that the two require to be duly proportioned to each other and to the globe of which they form a part.

Again, there is good reason to believe that the proportions of the various gases in the atmosphere are, within certain narrow limits, such as are most favourable not only for the life that actually exists, but for any life that could be developed from the elements that constitute the universe.

www.wku.edu...

They did find signs of life on mars rather early on but then decided to label it a mistake of sorts.... Always strange to see the speculation about life on Mars when we found what we were looking for so fast. It really comes down to people believing scientist are stupid enough to get us there but not smart enough to design test's that are worth the effort. All in all i believe we found life long ago and they have been sitting on it ever since. When one adds the recent flowing water, the permafrost, methane production and the clear signs of liquid water under the equatorial latitudes i really believe there is life and i will argue the point.

Stellar

Originally posted by TheBrontide
With the thin atmosphere on Mars, it is probable that any ice would/could, evaporate almost immediately instead of just melting into liquid water. Just the warmth of the sun could be enough to create vapors of water. In my lurking here, it has been mentioned before somewhere as possible.

That means nothing. The ice caps haven't melted why would subterranean ice melt?

Water isn't a necessary molecule for life, it is a necessary molecule for some life, most here on earth.

Originally posted by Frosty
That means nothing. The ice caps haven't melted why would subterranean ice melt?

Because it never froze? The polar caps on Mars have partially melted and still are...

Stellar

Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by Frosty
That means nothing. The ice caps haven't melted why would subterranean ice melt?

Because it never froze? The polar caps on Mars have partially melted and still are...

Stellar

I thought maybe he suggesting since ice on surface probably sublimates that it means that subterranean ice will do the same, but it also sound like he thought that differently so I asked: The ice caps haven't melted so why would subsurface ice?

So, does this subsurface ice even sublimate at all, or evaporate, melt?

We would have to know where the ice is, the amount of energy impacting the ice, etc in order to know whether there can be any liquid water. Even if there is water, how long could it remain in its liquid state? Hour, minute, second?

The ice caps haven't melted so why would subsurface ice?

Pressure and possibly tectonic or volcanism previously undetected. Hypothetical I know but it is a possibility.

Could it be that the ice that still remains of course, exists on both the poles, as well as beneath the surface?

Also could it be that the planet temperature, is low enough and with low enough atmospheric pressure, that any ice that did melt, would very quickly become a gas, dispersing?

But as there is little atmosphere, of which is easily blown off with the solar winds in short order, that the only gasses are mostly 'temporary', in the sceme of things, and hence, life would not likely be sustainable at all levels.

Originally posted by Frosty
I thought maybe he suggesting since ice on surface probably sublimates that it means that subterranean ice will do the same, but it also sound like he thought that differently so I asked: The ice caps haven't melted so why would subsurface ice?

Sorry for the misunderstanding then. There seems to be plenty of liquid water and i do not think the Polar caps will sublimate either.

So, does this subsurface ice even sublimate at all, or evaporate, melt?

Apparently it does yes as all the surface cracking would indicate...

We would have to know where the ice is, the amount of energy impacting the ice, etc in order to know whether there can be any liquid water.

There can obviously be liquid water as the surface structures indicate.

Even if there is water, how long could it remain in its liquid state? Hour, minute, second?

How long does the waster under the north pole cap stay liquid?

Stellar

Originally posted by TheBrontide
Could it be that the ice that still remains of course, exists on both the poles, as well as beneath the surface?

Very much so and there is plenty of it.

s there Earth-like life on Mars? There probably is

Also could it be that the planet temperature, is low enough and with low enough atmospheric pressure, that any ice that did melt, would very quickly become a gas, dispersing?

Not so sure about this one but evidence on surface would indicate that at least at some stage there was liquid water on surface for some long duration of time.

But as there is little atmosphere, of which is easily blown off with the solar winds in short order, that the only gasses are mostly 'temporary', in the sceme of things, and hence, life would not likely be sustainable at all levels.

I believe that Mars has far more of an atmosphere than is suggested by scientist so far. I believe it is far more earth like than most would admit and given the lenghts Nasa went to just to hide the true atmospheric colours of mars i think i can defend that view.

Signs of water found deep within Mars

Stellar

Originally posted by StellarX
There can obviously be liquid water as the surface structures indicate.

I don't think it is obvious that there can be, as it is obvious that there was water on Mars. The sun might have exploded causing the surface of Mars to heat up and melt ice causing the canals. The sun then may have cooled down, then turning the water on Mars back into ice. This may have happened millions of years ago and probably could have lasted for only a few year or a few centuries.

I don't think it is obvious that there can be, as it is obvious that there was water on Mars. The sun might have exploded causing the surface of Mars to heat up and melt ice causing the canals. The sun then may have cooled down, then turning the water on Mars back into ice. This may have happened millions of years ago and probably could have lasted for only a few year or a few centuries.

And in those "few centuries" of water on Mars, could some life have formed?

Originally posted by frosty
I don't think it is obvious that there can be, as it is obvious that there was water on Mars.

The canals would not carve so deeply into rock overnight. These things take time and by the depth and the extensive nature of these canals i believe water were flowing for long durations of time....

The sun might have exploded causing the surface of Mars to heat up and melt ice causing the canals.

That is not how suns work last time i checked and if you want to suggest how these models of the sun could work i would obviously like them. As i said before the canals would not form nearly as fast as on Earth and water would have to be flowing for longer to have the same effect i think.

The sun then may have cooled down, then turning the water on Mars back into ice. This may have happened millions of years ago and probably could have lasted for only a few year or a few centuries.

Those canyons would take more than centuries to form.

Originally posted by jupiter869: And in those "few centuries" of water on Mars, could some life have formed?

Does take longer than that but it mostly depends on what theories about evolution and life you subscribe to...

Stellar

[edit on 4-12-2005 by StellarX]

Originally posted by jupiter869
And in those "few centuries" of water on Mars, could some life have formed?

I would have no idea, this is what NASA is investigating. Knowing how long water flowed on the Martian surface and other details and information about the planet at the time would be vitale in estimating the chance, though.

Originally posted by StellarX
The canals would not carve so deeply into rock overnight. These things take time and by the depth and the extensive nature of these canals i believe water were flowing for long durations of time....

Correct, not overnight but maybe a few century or millenia.

Originally posted by StellarX
That is not how suns work last time i checked and if you want to suggest how these models of the sun could work i would obviously like them. As i said before the canals would not form nearly as fast as on Earth and water would have to be flowing for longer to have the same effect i think.

The sun goes through a constant process of fusion, much like an explosion and the dispering heat may vary over time, which could allow a massive amount of energy to be trapped in the thin Martian atmosphere causing ice to melt. An amount greater than what the planet normally receives.

What I am merely stating is that because water may have once existed on Mars does not mean that water can exist on Mars. The conditions have changed and they may never happen again until our sun begins to die.

Originally posted by jupiter869
And in those "few centuries" of water on Mars, could some life have formed?

....and expired.

Guys, anyone interrested in Real Estate on Mars?