posted on Jan, 8 2006 @ 09:05 AM
Originally posted by Seekerof
Originally posted by cavscout
The fact that many of you like taxation does not change the fact that it is theft.
Apparently and quite obviously, you have no reality based concept as to what theft is? Try this:
According to the Oxford American Dictionary and Language Guide (1999), which, like any dictionary, purports to state the everyday meanings of words,
"theft" means "the act or an instance of stealing." Alas, this helps us only if the word "stealing" is better understood than "theft," which
is unlikely. So what is stealing? To steal is to "take (another person's property) illegally" or to "take (property, etc.) without right or
permission, esp. in secret with the intention of not returning it."
As these definitions show, the essence of theft - that which makes it what it is and not some other thing, such as burglary, robbery, or borrowing -
is the taking of someone's property without right or permission. If I ask for your old lawnmower and you give it to me, there is no theft. But if I
ask and you say "No," then I commit theft if I take it anyway. Property is another concept that needs analysis, but for our purposes here we can
think of it as that to which one is entitled by the prevailing rules, however unjust one thinks those rules are. So the question whether taxation is
theft reduces to this question: "Is taxation the taking of someone's property without right or permission?"
Is Taxation Theft?
Seeker, the link you provided above was to an article concluding that taxation is theft, and stated (better than I did) the same thing I did.
From Seeker's above link:
Finally, it doesn't follow from the fact that I don't deserve my wealth that it is morally permissible for someone (including the state) to
coerce me into disgorging it. Nor does it follow that it is morally permissible, all things considered, to take it from me without my permission. If I
give it away, fine. Doing so may even make me a good person. But unless one is a moral imperialist or totalitarian, there is logical space between (1)
it being good to do X and either (2) it being obligatory to do X or (3) it being right for the state to coerce the doing of X.
Furthermore, you are arguing against the long history of world taxation, while ignoring the vast contributions that taxation provides.
Like I said before, even you (or everybody) thinks taxation provides "vast contributions" that does not mean it is not theft. You can argue that
taxes are good. You can argue that taxes supported by the majority. You cant, however, argue that taxation is not theft.
Go into any third grade class and ask the kids this question: if you tell me not take your money, but I take it anyway and give it to someone I think
needs it more than you do, did I steal from you? You know the what they will tell you.
Taxation is in no way theft, and you are simply inadequately arguing libertarian entitlement theory.
No, you are wrong. This is no theory, it is the lack of theory. If I say dont take what is mine, and you take it anyway, you are stealing.
You are bringing theory into this.
When we agree to work, we agree to a taxed wage -- like I said above, the tax is simply part of the cost, it's something one consents to as part of
the social transaction. There is no "force" involved, and no "theft". Of course, if you later refuse to pay the agreed cost, then the tax
collectors will come knocking at your door. But try reneging on your debts to anyone else and see how they react!
Why Taxation Is Not Theft
Is Taxation Stealing?
What, I am not entitled to the full wages I work for? That society owns the product of my labor? I enter into a contract of taxation when I agree to
work? Well, seeing as government, on behalf of the majority (who only supported taxation because they were lied to about it), decided to break the law
and the spirit our nation was built on enforcing regulation that says I cant
work "under the table", I am forced to fill out tax forms or not
make money. Forced
. Who initiated that force? The government. Taking money by force is theft.
[edit on 8-1-2006 by cavscout]