Do Jews go to heaven?

well said scottsquared

I firmly believe that heaven and hell are a product of the human ego. What we call God or Higher Power is love and life force that is inside all living things and is all power and energy. so if there is a heaven jews would be there too.

Originally posted by scottsquared
Being "good," is good in and of itself. Nothing further is required. To ascribe to any further requirement; acceptance of Christian dogma, is patently offensive, racist, and mean spirited.

Please click on the link in my signature and take the "good person" test.

WOW ....i clicked on your link and took the test.........man im screwed!!!!!!

yeah, i think that entire page the quiz is on is flapdoodle, it even says that most of the 150,000 people that die today will go to helll...

Yep, I failed the test, too. Good thing for me I have a savior and redeemer!

I had said earlier that I would explain why I've changed my mind on this issue and no longer thing Jews can get into heaven by their merits. I was originally going to explain my buddy's logic, but wouldn't have been able to back it with scripture. Thanks to Zaimless, though, for bringing this scripture to my attention in their attempt to demonstrate that God is evil. The verse is Joshua 24:19-20:

19Joshua said to the people, "You are not able to serve the LORD. He is a holy God; he is a jealous God. He will not forgive your rebellion and your sins. 20 If you forsake the LORD and serve foreign gods, he will turn and bring disaster on you and make an end of you, after he has been good to you."

What struck me the first time reading this was when Joshua said that God would not forgive their sins and rebellion. Then, there is the statement that he will bring disaster and make an end of them...But after he has been good to them. If we would assume that the Jew's ultimate rebellion against God was when they rejected Him when He came to the earth and killed Him (murder = sin, too), then there isn't anything they could do to get back into God's good grace...Except, of course, recant on that rebellion and see Him for who He is.

I can go more into depth if someone wants; it's just a wee bit of late to spend a lot of time posting something folks might not even be interested in, though.

Final statement, Kinglizard was right and I was wrong in interpreting the Bible.

Originally posted by junglejake
Yep, I failed the test, too. Good thing for me I have a savior and redeemer!

That's the whole point! Every person on the planet will fail the test because we have all sinned (Romans 3:32) (except Christ) which demonstrates our need for a Savior!
Without His Sacrifice, we are all doomed to Hell. (Including the Jews, which was the original point of this thread.)

This point may or may not have already been made, but I can't remember because I'm getting all my threads mixed up! You cannot lump all of one type of person together (ie-"all the Jews") and say "Yes, they will go to Heaven" or "No, they won't" as it is all up to the individual person.
If a person (ANY person) accepts/believes in /trusts Christ as their Lord and Savior, that person goes to Heaven. If they don't, they won't. It's that simple!

Although I believe that I have already said everything that needs saying in response to you religious pseudo Christian troglodytes, let this be my final response; To be exclusionary in your belief structure is immoral. Being immoral disqualifies you as a "good" person, Regardless if you accept Jesus H. Christ or Mickey Frickin' Mouse as your "Personal" savior, you will NOT be going to Heaven if any such realm exists. Get over your egomaniacal self-fulfilling prophesying. The lesson of Christianity and indeed every religion; is to be a "Good" person. The rest is just dogma and sociopolitical filler.

Originally posted by junglejake
Yep, I failed the test, too. Good thing for me I have a savior and redeemer!

I had said earlier that I would explain why I've changed my mind on this issue and no longer thing Jews can get into heaven by their merits.

Good God, is this what your religion has brought you to? I am going to step the plate here and flat out stop calling myself a Christian.

I am a Catholic, I don't want to be confused with those of you who think you can even know God enough to answer this question. We don't! I don't, you don't. God is infinite, we are incapable of understanding his infinite MERCY. We are incapable of understanding what He is capable of to save souls. We are incapable of understanding his limitless capacity for his love for all he created.

I for one am not writing off anyone based on my, or any one man's limited capacity to even comprehend the implications of what is being said here.

Anyone who thinks otherwise, scripture or not behind your words should really take a good hard look at themselves.

I'll say it again...."forgive us our trepasses as we forgive those who trespass against us". Be careful how you limit yourself in God's eyes in this respect.

Or not.....

Man To be honest I am at a battle with myself to know the answer to thing.

Jesus did say I am the door and no other way to God without him. But God did make a covenant(a promise) with a people (Jews). And we as Christian know that we don't follow the old laws but the new ones. Remember Jesus never said that he came to destroy the law or change the law. He came to fulfill the law.

But the fact is I don't think God breaks his promises. Which means their has to be two covenants. But I still believe that Christian are Gods pearls his great reward.

[edit on 21-11-2008 by slymattb]

Originally posted by truthseeka
Christians will tell you you can only reach heaven through Jesus. So, by default, Jews, who don't accept Jesus, can't go to heaven.

HOWEVER, Christians will also tell you that Jews are the chosen people of God. Seems to me that God would allow his chosen people into heaven, no?

So, which is it? If Jews are the chosen ones, they get to heaven, OR only those who accept Jesus get to heaven?

jesus' parable of the marriage feast explains it.

the isrealites WERE gods chosen people. but when the messiah came they (as a group) rejected him. just like the marriage feast, the first invitations did not fill up the seats, so invitations were extended elsewhere.

if you look at the history of the early christians and the keys given to peter. the first key was used at pentecost 33CE when holy spirit was pour on those gathered there. at that point they began preaching the gospel of christ to the jews.

some jews accepted the message and became followers of christ acknowledging him as the messiah. however the isrealites as a whole continued to reject jesus. just like the parable, the invitation was extended to the gentiles.

the second of peter's keys was used when he converted cornelius, a gentile. from this moment on, the hope of heaven was opened to the gentiles.

do jews today go to heaven? the logical answer would be no. even with the gentiles, steps are needed for them to be eligible. cornelius wasnt just a gentile, he was a "man who feared god" and showed his dedication by baptism. if a jew refuses to acknowledge jesus as the messiah, then how could he have any claim on the ransom that jesus paid?

for more information on this, the book of hebrews is good for seeing the relationship between the mosaic law and jesus.

Originally posted by slymattb
Jesus did say I am the door and no other way to God without him. But God did make a covenant(a promise) with a people (Jews).

jesus fulfilled the law by fulfilling the promise of the law. the jews did infact have "dibs" on the heavenly calling.

its like a person promising a gift to you. what happens if the gift finally arrives and you reject it? wouldnt the giver give it to someone else who will appreciate it more? if he does, does this mean he didnt fulfill is promise?

jesus likened the heavenly calling to a marriage feast. the invitations were sent and everything prepared. when some came but not all, then the invitation was extended to others.

I understand what your saying Miriam. But all that does is change a Jew a Christian.

But what I dont understand is there are some people that love God and follow as best they can to do good. And they pray and they have faith and works. But they just dont know the truth of Jesus. Like the bible says God knows a pure heart. So what are we saying as christians that only pure heart christians go to heaven????

So what about the men and women who did the best they can to do God's will but they didnt know Jesus or the bible??? Do they go to hell and eteral punishment????

I think we as christian must realize that their are people who are good and pure that are outside the bible. I think somewhere in the bible is the answer about what will happen to these people!!! God bless.

[edit on 24-11-2008 by slymattb]

Originally posted by slymattb
So what about the men and women who did the best they can to do God's will but they didnt know Jesus or the bible??? Do they go to hell and eteral punishment????

......I think somewhere in the bible is the answer about what will happen to these people!!! God bless.

there is, but your not going to see it while you are still hanging on to hellfire. let go.

eccl 9:5,10 says very clearly that the death are unconscience. nonexistant.

john 9:[28] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
[29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

notice at the time jesus was saying this the "hour had not come"

who do these in the grave include? doesnt it say ALL that are in the graves? so if the evil are roasting in hell for all eternity, how can they be resurrected? same question goes for those playing harps in heaven...

there are 2 resurrections. a first and a second.

1st resurrection

rev 20:[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

this is after armageddon, verse 4 talks about thrones and how "they" sat on them. and judgement was given to "them"

who are this "they" (plural) that rule with christ? this particular verse states that they are separate from the world and did not worship the beast. it also says that they are priests of god.

what else can we find about them?

rev 5:[8] And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
[9] And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
[10] And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

here, these same "kings and priests" are described as 24 elders. whats also interesting is that they were redeemed by jesus' blood out of the earth. so whoever these kings and priests are, they were once living on earth. they died (became nonexistant) and then were resurrected as chapter 20 mentioned.

what else?

rev 1:[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
[6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

not only is john including himself in this class, but he is talking to fellow christians who are also of this class.

what else?

1 peter 2: [9] But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

whats interesting here is that peter is also referring to gentiles too. yet he calls them a holy nation.

this priestly class are called from the earth. they go to heaven to rule as kings and priests. they have to die to receive this (1 cor 15:50)

2nd resurrection

what about this second resurrection? after all if those going to heaven are kings, then who will they rule over? they need subjects...

a second thing to consider is the shadow of christian law, the mosaic law which was a foreshadowing. the high priest was symbolic of the coming jesus (heb 7:22-28). the levitical priesthood was symbolic of this new heavenly priesthood. but what about the rest of isreal, who did they symbolize?

rev 7:[9] After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
[10] And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

we see a contrast with the group of 144,000 mentioned before them. these too are from the world, but instead of sitting on thrones with jesus, they stand "before" him.

matt 5:[5] Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

is it possible that jesus is referring to this great multitude that no man could number?

ps 37:[29] The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.

the hebrew world for land can also mean earth.

2 flocks

jesus talked about having 2 flocks.

first he referrers to the "little flock"
luke 12:[32] Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

the ones that go to heaven are this little flock, it makes sense they are "given" the kingdom and rule with jesus.

john 10:[16] And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

so the "other sheep" would logically be this "great multitude" that "inherit the earth" and who "dwell therein for ever"

resurrection of the unrightoues

rev 20:[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

so we see the dead now "standing up" or being resurrected and death and hell giving up those in them. this scripture alone should tell you something is wrong with the
hellfire-torture-for-eternity doctrine.

[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

this scripture specifically shows that hell and death are different from the lake of fire. we see death and hell being destroyed along with anyone who is not written in the book of life.

it specifically referred to as the "second death". if the first death is nonexistance, then why would the second be any different?

who are these that experience the second death? earlier in the chapter it says that satan is released again and they "were gathered" these are people who despite being resurrected and seeing the truth, STILL take satan's side. there is no longer a question of god's existance or of what is "truth". these people still oppose god. so along with satan they are destroyed.

these scriptures imply that everyone is given a chance. whether before armageddon or after when one is resurrected. it implies that those destroyed know what they are doing and are not ignorant of the choices they are making.

it also shows us that those who refuse to serve god do not receive eternal torment but rather nonexistance. we are tenants in god's realm (lev 25:23) and he has every right to evict us if we dont agree to the terms. unfortunately there is nothing outside of god's realm.

Miriam hell fire is biblical, not only in the OT but the Nt as well, and don't give me the translation thing because the passages are clear as day.

Not only that but God showed hell to the prophets and the saints even in our time. Hell fire is biblical.

I'll have more later.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth


Miriam hell fire is biblical, not only in the OT but the Nt as well, and don't give me the translation thing because the passages are clear as day.

Not only that but God showed hell to the prophets and the saints even in our time. Hell fire is biblical.

I'll have more later.

yes i know you've stated that several times. the problem is that hellfire doesnt work "biblically". it simply contradicts too many scriptures. scriptures you have yet to address so as to explain to me exactly how they fit.

every single "hellfire" support scripture can also be interpreted to mean destruction.

the question isnt whether there is a hell, there is, but rather, what exactly is hell. why would job pray to go there?

reply to post by miriam0566


ZEALOUS PSYCHOPHANTS GO TO HELL!

Although I believe that I have already said everything that needs saying in response to you religious pseudo Christian troglodytes, let this be my final response; To be exclusionary in your belief structure is immoral. Being immoral disqualifies you as a "good" person, Regardless if you accept Jesus H. Christ or Mickey Frickin' Mouse as your "Personal" savior, you will NOT be going to Heaven if any such realm exists. Get over your egomaniacal self-fulfilling prophesying. The lesson of Christianity and indeed every religion; is to be a "Good" person. The rest is just dogma and sociopolitical filler. =GOD

reply to post by junglejake


That is a fairly ignorant comment. Jews atone for their sins every year on Yom Kipper. This includes prayer and fasting for a day. We pray to God to forgive us for our sins. Please know what you are speaking about before spreading ignorance around. Research Judaism, I am certainly not trying to change anyone's mind but I read so much on various forums about JUdaism that is just not true. Thank you.

reply to post by truthseeka


The Chosen people of God, The Jews, were chosen, not for preferential treatment, but, rather as the people who would prodice the Messiah. they were scattered and captured and enslaved many, many times, they were held to a higher moral standard and they failed repeatedly. In John 14verses 6-7 Jesus states that he is the only way to heaven, and in Ephesians 2 verses 8-10 it is made clear that by faith alone we are saved and the spirit prompts us to do good works that were prepared in advance. As a Messianic Jew, I accept the responsibility to reach my kin because they are not going to heaven wothout Jesus. Paul and Silas went first to the Synogogues and then to the gentiles. It was, and is still important to save our Jewish brothers and sisters! for more discussion and information you can visist Messiahforallpeople.blogspot.com to read some exerpts from a book called "To the Jew First, A textbook on Jewish Evangelism" by Mitch Treistman. also, I would suggest picking up that book because I have found it invaluable in my own research.