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US Denies Mini-Guantanamo in Kosovo

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posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by IAF101
Wrong. As soon as the Soviets attacked Afganistan their wasnt any organized force set up by America to counter the Soviets, various Afghan sections were fighting independently against the God less soviets and thus they declared jihad against the Soviets and those jihadi's were called the mujahideen or the "strugglers". The US came much later when they recognized the potential of the resistence movement and how effective it was against the Soviets. The US then financed, trained and equipped them. And the rest is history.

Sure. CIA Cover operations began even BEFORE the Soviet Invasion of Afganistan for your Information.

The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs "From the Shadows", that American intelligence services began to aid the opposing factions in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention.
en.wikipedia.org...



Do I need to give you a history lesson every time on every topic ??




You sure are Funny if nothing Else!



This is just foolish !! Rambo 3 is your idea of the US Special Forces ??
YOu are definitely deluded, Rambo 3 is garbage and nothing more, a fantasy that was NOTHING like what really happened. The US provided weapons, training and money to the Mujahideen- that is true but sent in Special Forces to take out the Soviets? Why would they need to ? The mujahideen were doing a bang up job themselves and maybe the CIA guys did get their hands dirty but never the US army Special Operiation!

Sorry mate, but the Character John Rambo was an X-US Green Barret that operated in Vietnam.

John Rambo, a former Green Beret and Medal of Honor recipient, is plagued by the awful changes that are common in Vietnam veterans like himself.
www.imdb.com....
And when the Rambo 3 came out, the War in Afganistan was in full effect - and the Movie was the mirror of current events.

Rambo III sees Rambo (Sylvester Stallone) going to Afghanistan to rescue Colonel Trautman, who was captured while trying to supply weapons, because of the particular atrocities of the local occupying Soviet army.
en.wikipedia.org...

CIA helped the resistance of Afganistan so that the Russians woudln't run the over with superior technology. If the US would not supply Stinger missiles to the Mujahideen and shot down ALOT of Soviet airplanes and attack helicopters, the story would be a whole lot different!

The most well-known and feared mujahideen were the various loosely-aligned opposition groups that fought against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan between 1979 and 1989, and then fought against each other in the following civil war. These mujahideen were SIGNIFICANTLY financed, armed, and trained by the United States (under the presidencies of Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan), Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and China. Reagan referred to these mujahideen as "freedom fighters ... defending principles of independence and freedom that form the basis of global security and stability." In Western popular culture, the mujahideen were portrayed favourably in the popular actions films The Living Daylights and Rambo III.
en.wikipedia.org...

Why are you living in Denial?
Even mister Reagan said that Mujahideen were Freedom Fighters.
I bet that Soviet Forces considered these Freedom Fighters to be Terrorists.
Kind of puts a different light on the Events Today in Iraq, huh?
It's all a matter of Perspective...




posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Where you been Willis?


Hey SEEKERof - didcha know what the word TALIBAN means?

The Taliban (Persian and Pashto طالبان (plural), from the Arabic طالب (singular), meaning "SEEKER" or "student").

So if we translate your name to Persian/Pashto it means Taliban!

Just thought it was Interesting and wanted to share that with you all!




posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah

Sure. CIA Cover operations began even BEFORE the Soviet Invasion of Afganistan for your Information.

This is the problem, you havent read the entire article properly nor do you know of the history of the USSR. :shk: The Sinatra doctorine was preceeded by the Brezhnev doctrine that clearly stated that the soviets would ultimately end the rebillion in Afghanistan under the communist party and thus ensure that Afghanistan is part of the Warsaw pact. This could not happen and thus the CIA was asked to carry out "covert propaganda operations against the pro-Soviet regime" which is NOT the same as giving the mujahideen stingers!
Again the damn history lesson, why dont you pay me to educate you ?




And when the Rambo 3 came out, the War in Afganistan was in full effect - and the Movie was the mirror of current events.

So some X-vietnam vet in Afganistan slammed a T72 into a mi-24 and survived ??
and also did he take out a whole soviet base and shoot explosive arrows?

Yeah thats reality allright !!



Why are you living in Denial?
Even mister Reagan said that Mujahideen were Freedom Fighters.

I dont know what you understood from my post but you have not understood what I was saying. I never said that the Mujahideen were not Freedom Fighters THEN, also I never said that the US didnt support them THEN . What is this all about ??



posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by ludaChris

But that is not the issue. Why is this an issue if it is inspected every year by the Red Cross. If the Red Cross is saying the conditions meet the standards then thats good enough for me. I trust them more than I do Amnesty International.





Im willing to bet that those Red Cross "inspections" are planned months in advance. How hard would it be to make something look good for the one or two weeks the inspectors are there. by the way is the red ross present for all interrorgations



posted on Dec, 6 2005 @ 03:36 AM
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Originally posted by IAF101
This is the problem, you havent read the entire article properly nor do you know of the history of the USSR. :shk: The Sinatra doctorine was preceeded by the Brezhnev doctrine that clearly stated that the soviets would ultimately end the rebillion in Afghanistan under the communist party and thus ensure that Afghanistan is part of the Warsaw pact. This could not happen and thus the CIA was asked to carry out "covert propaganda operations against the pro-Soviet regime" which is NOT the same as giving the mujahideen stingers!

Ofcourse.
From the Robert Gates' Book:

on 7/3/79, six months before the
soviets invaded afghanistan, carter signed a finding to help the mujahedin
covertly. it authorized support for propaganda and other psychological ops
in afghan; establishment of radio ops through third-countries; and
provision either unilaterally or through third countries, of support for
guerrillas in cash or nonmilitary supplies.

spot.acorn.net...

THAT is not Just some petty "propaganda war" the CIA was involved into. And it does not really matter, because CIA supported and financed these People to fight the Soviet "Liberation".



So some X-vietnam vet in Afganistan slammed a T72 into a mi-24 and survived ??
and also did he take out a whole soviet base and shoot explosive arrows?

Yeah thats reality allright !!


I am talking about the IDEA of the Movie, how USA is FRIENDS with the Taliban and how the US special forces worked side by side with the Mujahideen rebels, who are today treated as Terrorists.



I dont know what you understood from my post but you have not understood what I was saying. I never said that the Mujahideen were not Freedom Fighters THEN, also I never said that the US didnt support them THEN . What is this all about ??

You did not Understand me.
How come that the members of Iraqi resistance today are not Freedom Fighters, when they are fighting an Invasion and an occupation of their Country? Only the CIA defines WHO and WHERE deserves this Title? So, lemme get this straight:
- if the US supports them, they are fighting for freedom
- if the US does NOT support them, they are terrorists.

There is a word, that starts with an -H- and ends with a -Y-...




posted on Dec, 6 2005 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
I am talking about the IDEA of the Movie, how USA is FRIENDS with the Taliban and how the US special forces worked side by side with the Mujahideen rebels, who are today treated as Terrorists.

Well, the US was supporting the Mujahideen but their were no SF sent to Afganistan to fight with the mujahideen.



How come that the members of Iraqi resistance today are not Freedom Fighters, when they are fighting an Invasion and an occupation of their Country?

Because firstly, their country is not occupied, the Iraqi government is an elected body not appointed officials. The Iraqi's have more freedom now than they did before and most importantly the iraqi terrorists are harming their own people more than they are harming the Coalition forces that are defending the iraqi people.
Another thing is that the Afganis fought more directly than the Iraqi terrorists and didnt resort to car bombings in public places. Iraq is now ruled by an UN mandate and not by an American one, the UN has passed a resolution that the Coaltion stay and establish a stable democracy in Iraq.



There is a word, that starts with an -H- and ends with a -Y-...

Its HAPPY !!


[edit on 6-12-2005 by IAF101]



posted on Dec, 6 2005 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
The Problem arises when you Find yout that CIA actually CREATED all of these Terrorists Organisations. They FOUNDED them. They TRAINED them. They ARMED them. They HELPED them get form one to another Country. What makes you think that they are not on CIA Payrole anymore?



Ok, as soon as you said this any credability this thread had went out the window. Its gone....poof!

Back to the subject at hand...I do beleave there are secret prisons for top Al Quaeda operatives and I Thank God that there is....this is war.

Example: If our boys catch a Muslim with Nuclear Triggers that are used to trigger a Nuclear Device.....what happens if this guy does'nt want to talk Souljah? What if he was caught with a street plan of YOUR city???

Perhaps we should give him an ACLU lawyer and have a 15-month trial in New York and put the soldiers who captured him on the witness stand....yeah that sounds real good.

Would you support torturing this POS to save 1000's of lives? No, I don't think you would Souljah.....Im think you would perfer to see an American city disappear rathar than seeing (1) terrorist tortured.

Personally, I would hang him bleeding over a pool of Great Whites to get the info we needed.

Maximu§



[edit on 013131p://222 by LA_Maximus]



posted on Dec, 6 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by LA_Maximus
I would hang him over a pool of Great Whites to get the info we needed.


You'd have to take him out to the ocean and bait the whites, one has never been kept succesfully in captivity, and would probably just swim around bumping into the walls of the pool ignoring the terrorist completely. Souljah's city would be destroyed.



posted on Dec, 6 2005 @ 02:01 PM
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I do beleave there are secret prisons for top Al Quaeda operatives and I Thank God that there is....this is war.


So no tactics are off limits because its war... but you would be the first scream TERRORISM if al qaeda started kidnapping people off the streets in mainland america for interrorgation purposes... but hey... this is war.

America is such an arrogant country, thinking it can do what it wants at the same time as dictating to others what they can and cant do.... Such a sad ironic state of affairs



posted on Dec, 6 2005 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist

So no tactics are off limits because its war... but you would be the first scream TERRORISM if al qaeda started kidnapping people off the streets in mainland america for interrorgation purposes... but hey... this is war.

America is such an arrogant country, thinking it can do what it wants at the same time as dictating to others what they can and cant do.... Such a sad ironic state of affairs


O yeah thats a great post. Maybe the Jordanian bombings is a great excuse to justify the attacks as well. Im sure the wedding people would disagree the targeting of civilians in the name of terror these days.



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 05:15 AM
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Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Example: If our boys catch a Muslim with Nuclear Triggers that are used to trigger a Nuclear Device.....what happens if this guy does'nt want to talk Souljah? What if he was caught with a street plan of YOUR city???

There is a BIG Difference between a "Muslim Terrorist with a Nuclear Trigger" and a SUSPECTED Enemy Combatant. And the Majority of the Prisoners in Detention Camps are Suspects! Meaning, they are NOT actually accused of Anything! They were just a the Wrong place at the Wrong time with the Wrong Religion. Now I undertand that you FEAR the Terrorists, since it "Looks" like America was Attacked by them. But Sorry Max, the Rabbit Hole goes DEEPER then You and I think! Truth is a Terrible thing to Taste - and I belive that ALL the Conspiracy Theorists on this Forum togather, are maybe Closer to the Truth that really happened: who did it, and why. I think that if we both would found that out, we would be two very pissed individuals. But ONE thing is for Certain:
IT was not a Work of Lone Crazed Muslim Fanatics!




posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 07:18 AM
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There is much talk about lessons, education, occupation etc. about Afghanistan's recent history so I'll ad my 2 cents.

The Soviets

The Americans


But this thread is about is about detention camp in Kosovo and It is far from mini.

Camp Bondsteel 1

Camp Bondsteel 2


The contract to service Camp Bondsteel is the latest in a string of military contracts awarded to Brown & Root Services. Its fortunes have grown as US militarism has escalated. The company is part of the Halliburton Corporation, the largest supplier of products and services to the oil industry.

In sectors controlled by other Western powers, KFOR soldiers who are living in bombed out apartment blocks and old factories joke, “What are the two things that can be seen from space? One is the Great Wall of China, the other is Camp Bondsteel.”


What I find interesting is when you silence the voices of fear, hate, paranoia, terrorism, nationalism, patriotism, religion fundamentalism, racial discrimination etc., and you use cold calculated mind, you find words like Oil, Gas, Pipeline and (enter your favourite corporation here) at the begining of every fairytale that we are discussing here.

And while I'm typing these words, I'm hearing the lyrics of song author Meja (It's all 'bout the money) in the back of my mind.

It's all 'bout the money
It's all 'bout the dum dum.......
And I don't think It's funny
to see us fade away
It's all 'bout the money
It's all 'bout the dum dum...
and I think we got it all wrong anyway


Do you hear them too?



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by Seekerof
Where you been Willis?


Hey SEEKERof - didcha know what the word TALIBAN means?

The Taliban (Persian and Pashto طالبان (plural), from the Arabic طالب (singular), meaning "SEEKER" or "student").

So if we translate your name to Persian/Pashto it means Taliban!


I am impressed that you are allegedly learning something every day, Souljah.
Here is something I learned some time back: the name Souljah stands for a slang for soldier; a soldier of Allah, and someone who sympathizes with the acts and doings of extreme fundamentalist terrorists and foreign fighters.






seekerof

[edit on 7-12-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
There is a BIG Difference between a "Muslim Terrorist with a Nuclear Trigger" and a SUSPECTED Enemy Combatant.

Yeah, the SUSPECTED enemy combatant was just standing around with some people with AK and grenade launchers shooting at people. Or the SUSPECTED enemy combatant might have just been fixing up his car with TNT, nothing wrong with that is their ?



And the Majority of the Prisoners in Detention Camps are Suspects! Meaning, they are NOT actually accused of Anything!

And Thank GOD they didnt do anything! If they were all caught after doing something we might have seen an apocalypse.
What kind of logic is that anyway? Do you need to see the person blow himself up with TNT before you say he is a terrorist ?


I think that if we both would found that out, we would be two very pissed individuals.

Yup thats true! If you found out you would be pissed that the US wasnt behind it all along and as for anybody else they would be pissed for wasting so much time.



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 10:46 AM
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interesting thread, well documented.....
for me its hard to believe anything that comes out of 'official u.s. govt' anything. the govt consistantly lies to the public ( no history lesson here....if you can't see it, well, then there is no hope left for u)
if the u.s. was torturing detainees before, there still doing it now....of course they are...why would they stop useing torture?? chaney says its ok.....you remember him,he's the second highest ranking elected official in u.s. govt...advocating torture....

to believe or not to believe, that is the question.
do you believe that the govt is benevolent?
do you believe that the govt wouldn't lie to the public to save face?

the real terrorist have become leaders in AMERIKA..........................

i hear you souljah



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by IAF101
Yeah, the SUSPECTED enemy combatant was just standing around with some people with AK and grenade launchers shooting at people. Or the SUSPECTED enemy combatant might have just been fixing up his car with TNT, nothing wrong with that is their ?

It is so Amuzing for you, huh?
The Case of a German Citizen, that was KIDNAPPED by the CIA, when he stepped from his airplane when it landed in Macedonia and taken to one of Detention Camps for FIVE MONTHS - and was later Released; not Guilty - we go the Wrong Guy. THATS what I am talking about - and he sure is not the only Case, since there were around 300 landings of CIA aircraft in Europe Only! I wonder how many people there are with the Same Story - being Guilty until proven Otherwise.

Kindof SS Tactics, don't you think?



What kind of logic is that anyway? Do you need to see the person blow himself up with TNT before you say he is a terrorist ?

Whats your Logic - arrest and interrogate every Muslim on this Planet?

I wonder what would your opinion regarding the "Enemy Combatants" be, if the Cold War was still in full effect and let's say that Iran won the war against Iraq and that the Soviets are invading and "removing" Saddam - you would GLORIFY these same people, that you call Terrorists today.

Just like America praised the Mujahideen in Afganistan.

And just like America praised Saddam when he was winning the war aganst Iran.



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 06:19 AM
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look IAF101 if your country can put to trial serial killers that kill 100 people why dont these people that are not yet guilty of anything get a fair trial ?

hmmmm?



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
THATS what I am talking about - and he sure is not the only Case, since there were around 300 landings of CIA aircraft in Europe Only! I wonder how many people there are with the Same Story - being Guilty until proven Otherwise.

Do you know how many german firm were involved in the oil for food scam? Do you know tht the Germans were the ones that helped Saddam with his chemical warfare technology ?
So is it so unreasonable to take a potential supplies or a confidant of Iraqi militants into custody for interrogation ? I would think not!
One act of decisiveness could potentially help save hundreds and if not millions of lives that could other wise become fodder for their engine of death.


Kindof SS Tactics, don't you think?

Had it been the ShutzStafel we might have gone to the bottom of this problem a long time ago! The SS wouldnt just take him for interrogation and return him un harmed but would cuff him and parade him naked through town before executing him openly for being a traitor .
For the CIA to have picked him up dont you think he must have done something that they found to be serious? Why would they spend so much effort for just another regualar joe if he was innocent?


Whats your Logic - arrest and interrogate every Muslim on this Planet?

Arrest and interrogate every suspicious indiviual on the planet irrespective of their religion or their ethinicity !!
All that was done was interrogation and if he was truly innocent he has nothing to be afraid of? Or would you prefer Stalins methods of dealing with suspicious people ?



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by nukunuku
look IAF101 if your country can put to trial serial killers that kill 100 people why dont these people that are not yet guilty of anything get a fair trial ?

hmmmm?

The reason is that a serial killer works alone and once confined he cant do much harm . Also he wouldnt know of any others like him that are planning mass deaths like 9/11 or 7/11 etc would he ?
These terrorists have something that is more important than their own lives, they have information that could help possibly save a city from a nuclear explosion or a bio-attack or a nerve agent or a 9/11 etc,. That is why it is imperitive that the suspect be detained first and then questioned throughly before he can face the law. If he is found to be forth comming he would only speed up his chance at a decent trial .



posted on Dec, 9 2005 @ 06:02 AM
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Originally posted by IAF101
Do you know how many german firm were involved in the oil for food scam? Do you know tht the Germans were the ones that helped Saddam with his chemical warfare technology ?

How many German Soldiers do you see in IRAQ Today?
How many German Soldiers did you see Invading it?
How many German Airplanes did you see bombing Baghdad?
How many times in the History of the Middle East did you see Germany involved in Removing and Installing new Regimes?



All that was done was interrogation and if he was truly innocent he has nothing to be afraid of? Or would you prefer Stalins methods of dealing with suspicious people ?


So, if they detain him for FIVE MONTHS, and then later release him, it's OK? With daily torture and abuse, such as was shown NUMERUS times in the Past? Under torture people would say and do anything, just to make it stop - a confession from torture can not be used as valid.

And I thought USA were the Role Model for Democracy, Liberty, Peace and JUSTICE FOR ALL...

How wrong I Was........




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