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US Denies Mini-Guantanamo in Kosovo

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posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 03:24 PM
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The US military Saturday denied that it was running a Guantanamo-style prison for terror suspects in Kosovo, as tensions continued to simmer over reports of secret CIA flights across Europe.


Deutche-Welle

"There are no secret detention facilities located on Camp Bondsteel (eastern Kosovo)," Major Michael Wunn, US military spokesman in Kosovo, told news agency AFP in reference to the US base as part of NATO forces in the Balkan province

The major was responding to comments Friday by Council of Europe Human Rights Commissioner Alvaro Gil-Robles, who claimed to have seen Muslims being held at a facility in Kosovo which looked like the Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba, used to house captives from the US-led "war on terror." Gil-Robles told France's Le Monde newspaper he had been "shocked" by conditions at the center, which he said he witnessed in 2002.

Major Wunn said it was "common knowledge" that Camp Bondsteel included a detention facility used to house people detained during NATO peacekeeping operations in the UN-administered southern Serbian province. But he said it was currently empty and it was not used as a secret prison by the Central Intelligence Agency.

"The facility is operated by US military police soldiers fully trained in detention center operations. Currently, no one is detained in this facility," he said. "The facility is subject to inspection by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) and is regularly inspected by the United States Army, Europe."


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Is there a Country where CIA does NOT have a Secret Detention Camp?
Frankly I think this Has gone Way Out of HAND.
I hope that Europe will do Something against this...

European Union foreign policy chief Javier Solana told Spanish radio on Saturday that Europeans found any suggestion of torture "intolerable" and insisted that such reports be investigated. "I have no doubt that this will be the object of an investigation... It must be investigated and those responsible must pay," he told Cadena Ser radio.




posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Is there a Country where CIA does NOT have a Secret Detention Camp?


Simple answer. China!!!
Should the camps be secret or should they be displayed to the world where the people be laughing at them? Its kind of like Al Zawahiri when he was caged back in Egypt and was televised.



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by Souljah
Is there a Country where CIA does NOT have a Secret Detention Camp?


Simple answer. China!!!
Should the camps be secret or should they be displayed to the world where the people be laughing at them? Its kind of like Al Zawahiri when he was caged back in Egypt and was televised.

You are probably Right about China. But the Problem here is, that China does not Dictate other countries what to do, YET (such as Iran and North Korea). The USA look then pretty silly, telling everybody else what to do, when themselves are performing acts of Terrorism in Secret Detentio Camps.



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 03:43 PM
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This makes perfect sense. With the Balkan region becoming free-range Al Qaeda training and breeding grounds it makes perfect logistical sense to place detention centers for terrorists there.

Place the prison where the future prisoners are, that’s just good planning…


Related threads:

The Balkans: International magnet for jihadists

Bosnia: Jihadist Incubator

UN Let a Blacklisted Islamic Charity Roam Free in Kosovo



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 03:47 PM
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What kind of torture is being conducted in these camps, does anybody know? These days the definition of torture is so subjective, I could say I'm being tortured if somebody locks me in a cage and makes me listen to country music. Some things that many here consider inhumane torture these days, many who have been subject to real torture in the past would consider a good day. I posted this link in another thread, but perhaps it may also be useful here...

www.skycitygallery.com...

I don't advocate torture, and I'm no expert as to whether it works or not, but what will be considered torture in the future, verbal abuse? It seems the torture bar is being set lower and lower. I think being thrown in a naked human pyramid would beat the heck out of being dissected alive. But I guess that's just me.



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 03:51 PM
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Is there a Country where CIA does NOT have a Secret Detention Camp?
Frankly I think this Has gone Way Out of HAND.
I hope that Europe will do Something against this...


Wow, I am so surprised (not really considering its Souljah) how little it takes for people to jump on the US torture bandwagon. This guy claims the prison “looks“ like Gitmo?
Ok, like the Army spokesperson said there is a detention facility, which is currently empty and is operated by the US Army. This guy was “shocked” by conditions there? Ok, except that everyone has their own view of what accepted conditions are. Souljah drawing any conclusions from what this guy said is just speculating, and not fact. So please don't jump the gun making assumptions that are based on nothing.

[edit on 28-11-2005 by WestPoint23]



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 04:11 PM
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Look at what they do to Taiwan. Threaten war if they declare independence, not to mention dabbling with their Olympic teams.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

But that is not the issue. Why is this an issue if it is inspected every year by the Red Cross. If the Red Cross is saying the conditions meet the standards then thats good enough for me. I trust them more than I do Amnesty International.



[edit on 11/28/2005 by ludaChris]



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 01:02 AM
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Isn't it Strange that Everywhere that CIA was, there is Al-Qaeada?
As I remember, there were CIA Agents in Kosovo, gathering "Islamist Jihadists" to fight against the Serbs.

Al-Qaeda in Kosovo


In 2003, NBC News acquired a videotaped statement of Muhammad Talal al-Jafar al Tallani Ackbar al-Walid, described as al-Qaeda's Deputy Under-Emir for Defensive Intelligence and Holy War Operations, denouncing US and calling for world Jihad against the West. The report then goes on to describe Muhammad Talal as one that was “involved in noteworthy military operations in the past, serving in covert operations alongside the CIA in Afghanistan and in Bosnia and Kosovo before joining al-Qaeda.” The report cites that American soldiers Lt. Gen. William Boykin and Will Dunham contributed to the report.


CIA aided Kosovo guerrilla army


AMERICAN intelligence agents have admitted they helped to train the Kosovo Liberation Army before Nato's bombing of Yugoslavia. The disclosure angered some European diplomats, who said this had undermined moves for a political solution to the conflict between Serbs and Albanians.


German Intelligence and the CIA supported Al Qaeda sponsored Terrorists in Yugoslavia


Both the CIA and German intelligence (BND) supported the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), a terrorist organization with links to Al Qaeda.

Despite its links to organized crime and Al Qaeda, the KLA rebel army had been skillfully heralded by the Western media in the months preceding the 1999 NATO bombings as broadly representative of the interests of ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. Its leader Hashim Thaci had been "designated" (by US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright) as chief negotiator at the Rambouillet peace talks.

"Samedin Xhezairi, also known as Commander Hoxha, joined the Kosovo Liberation Army when armed conflict in Kosovo began, fighting in three operation zones. He was a fighter in Chechnya, trained in Afghanistan and acted as the commander of the Mujahideen 112th Brigade operating in the summer of 2001 in the region of Tetovo [Macedonia]. In August of the same year 80 members of the 3/502 battalion of U.S. paratroopers evacuated him from Aracinovo [Macedonia], together with his Albanian extremists and 17 instructors of the U.S. private military company MPRI which was training the Albanian paramilitary formations."


America used Islamists to arm the Bosnian Muslims


"The official Dutch inquiry into the 1995 Srebrenica massacre, released last week, contains one of the most sensational reports on western intelligence ever published. Officials have been staggered by its findings and the Dutch government has resigned.... Now we have the full story of the secret alliance between the Pentagon and radical Islamist groups from the Middle East designed to assist the Bosnian Muslims... in flagrant violation of the UN security council arms embargo against all combatants in the former Yugoslavia. The result was a vast secret conduit of weapons smuggling though Croatia. This was arranged by the clandestine agencies of the US, Turkey and Iran, together with a range of radical Islamist groups, including Afghan mojahedin and the pro-Iranian Hizbullah.... Initially aircraft from Iran Air were used, but as the volume increased they were joined by a mysterious fleet of black C-130 Hercules aircraft. The report stresses that the US was 'very closely involved' in the airlift. Mojahedin fighters were also flown in... the Pentagon's own secret service was the hidden force behind these operations."

Well - I am a little Confuzed here.
Can somebody PLEASE Explain me, when does an EX-CIA Agent or an EX-CIA Operation cease to Exsists as a Covert-OPS such as desribed above, and becomes a TERRORIST Cell? Yes skippytjc, there are Terrorists in the Balkans, and CIA Imported them here! So, can you please explain to me, how does that work - Osama=ex-CIA, Al-Zarqawi=ex-CIA, Al-Qaeda=ex-CIA, The Balkans: International magnet for jihadists=ex-CIA.



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 10:52 PM
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It's pure politics, that is what makes this world turn everyday. And its politics that make enemies into friends and vice-versa. A country will use or support anyone if it favors their interests. It's the way its always been and its the way it will always be. Such as the US being strategic allies with China during the later part of the Cold War, we didnt want to be allies with communists, but hey it served the interests of both countries for the time.

And why wouldnt the CIA be wherever Al Queada is, its their job to track them, that is what they are paid for.
[edit on 11/29/2005 by ludaChris]

[edit on 11/29/2005 by ludaChris]



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 05:41 AM
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Originally posted by ludaChris
And why wouldnt the CIA be wherever Al Queada is, its their job to track them, that is what they are paid for.

The Problem arises when you Find yout that CIA actually CREATED all of these Terrorists Organisations. They FOUNDED them. They TRAINED them. They ARMED them. They HELPED them get form one to another Country. What makes you think that they are not on CIA Payrole anymore?



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 05:45 AM
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Double Post.



[edit on 30/11/05 by Souljah]



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 06:03 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
The Problem arises when you Find yout that CIA actually CREATED all of these Terrorists Organisations. They FOUNDED them. They TRAINED them. They ARMED them. They HELPED them get form one to another Country. What makes you think that they are not on CIA Payrole anymore?

The "problem" arises when Ignorance and Propaganda mix seemlesly into what seems like FACT.
The CIA Created nobody, they meerly supplied arms and provided training to "already present" rebels in Soviet Afganistan, in effect they trained and equipped a people that were fighting against the Russians in Afganistan, nothing more and nothing less. What ever these people do 30 years after they beat the Russians cannot be attributed to the CIA or America.



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 06:36 AM
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Originally posted by IAF101
The CIA Created nobody, they meerly supplied arms and provided training to "already present" rebels in Soviet Afganistan, in effect they trained and equipped a people that were fighting against the Russians in Afganistan, nothing more and nothing less. What ever these people do 30 years after they beat the Russians cannot be attributed to the CIA or America.

Yea, Sure.
And you found out that on... let me Guess: Fox news? No - Wall Street Journal? No - WorldNetDaily?

Sorry - but Al-Qaeda WAS and still IS CIA's Baby, and probably MI5 along with MOSSAD, designed to keep the Terror Threat Levels Up.

Check this Thread: Fabricated Al-Qaeda Links and read post Post Number: 1819989 (post id: 1841882), mmmkey?



The "Islamic Brigades" are a creation of the CIA. In standard CIA jargon, Al Qaeda is categorized as an "intelligence asset". Support to terrorist organizations is an integral part of U.S. foreign policy. Al Qaeda continues to this date (2002) to participate in CIA covert operations in different parts of the World. These "CIA-Osama links" do not belong to a bygone era, as suggested by the mainstream media.

The U.S. Congress has documented in detail, the links of Al Qaeda to agencies of the U.S. government during the civil war in Bosnia-Herzegovina, as well as in Kosovo. More recently in Macedonia, barely a few months before September 11, U.S. military advisers were mingling with Mujahideen mercenaries financed by Al Qaeda. Both groups were fighting under the auspices of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), within the same terrorist paramilitary formation.

The CIA keeps track of its "intelligence assets". Amply documented, Osama bin Laden's whereabouts were always known. Al Qaeda is infiltrated by the CIA. In other words, there were no "intelligence failures"! In the nature of a well-led intelligence operation, the "intelligence asset" operates (wittingly or unwittingly) with some degree of autonomy, in relation to its U.S. government sponsors, but ultimately it acts consistently, in the interests of Uncle Sam.

www.911dossier.co.uk...

Hmmmmmmmmmmm....




posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Yea, Sure.
And you found out that on...

Any non-partisan history book that one would care to come across.



Sorry - but Al-Qaeda WAS and still IS CIA's Baby, and probably MI5 along with MOSSAD, designed to keep the Terror Threat Levels Up.

And you know this from "reading" the net ??



Check this Thread: Fabricated Al-Qaeda Links and read post Post Number: 1819989 (post id: 1841882), mmmkey?

ATS?
Face it, with people like YOU on ATS I can hardly say that ever word on ATS is the truth! Even logically ATS is a conspiracy site, how can you link it to fact?? HAve you finally exhausted all the millions of sites that spread propaganda ?
Questions, questions...!!
None the less, the link in that post is flawed in many ways, for one it doesnt ever mention the ISI which has played a pivotal role in the whole Mujahideen situation during the Soviet Ocuupation. Also the link fails to mention that the CIA actually paid the afgans to return their weapon and this did not suceed. It vaugely claims that the US is "involved" in this "conspiracy" which is unsubstantiated by any credible source of information and only provides mention of these assertions by quoting back and forth to various article published on the same site by the same people. That in itself is enough to show that the articel is devoid of any semblence of the truth or fact because of which, other points of verification are redundant.

Also the "go to post no.. "is kinda lame, just say XYZ's post on page.... .




posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by IAF101
Face it, with people like YOU on ATS I can hardly say that ever word on ATS is the truth! Even logically ATS is a conspiracy site, how can you link it to fact?? HAve you finally exhausted all the millions of sites that spread propaganda ?
Questions, questions...!!

And with People like YOU, using US Military and Goverment Sites for your SOURCES, ATS is kind of NOT exactly a Conspiracy site anymore - but more like a lilttle Fox News Net Twin Brother.



None the less, the link in that post is flawed in many ways, for one it doesnt ever mention the ISI which has played a pivotal role in the whole Mujahideen situation during the Soviet Ocuupation. Also the link fails to mention that the CIA actually paid the afgans to return their weapon and this did not suceed. It vaugely claims that the US is "involved" in this "conspiracy" which is unsubstantiated by any credible source of information and only provides mention of these assertions by quoting back and forth to various article published on the same site by the same people. That in itself is enough to show that the articel is devoid of any semblence of the truth or fact because of which, other points of verification are redundant.

Before the CIA came to Afganistan there were NO Mujahedeen.
CIA Created Al-Qaeda. CIA used Pakistan and the route from Port City Karachi to Kabul Afganistan to send tons of Weapons to Islamic Rebels - which were FRIENDS at that time with the US. Remember Rambo 3 - the Embodyment of US Special Forces, fighting alongside with Taliban? I guess your current "anti-islamic" Agenda has forced you to completly forget and ignore that FACT from the Past. Just like you Ignore that USA Supported Saddam when they wanted him to win the Iraq-Iran War. It does not FIT your Version of "Truth" huh?



posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 01:15 PM
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First off I don't beleive there is a large scale problem with torture. I do however definatley beleive we do it. Is it wrong? Yes. Is it neccessary? I don't know.

That said the CIA is practically everywhere. There would be very few places you could go and not be near a CIA agent. That's part of their job.

Yes the USA is the reason Al-qaeda exists today. We funded them, we gave them weapons, we taught them to fight a guerilla war. Same as with Saddam. In the end both our dogs turned on us and now we are trying to kill them.

The end blame for both of these war's lies squarely on our own shoulders. We created Al-qaeda and Saddam's goverment. We also made sure they were as lethal as possible. Up until the very day they turned on us we continued to do just that.

Saddam was never a truely large threat to the citizen's of US. Neither is Al-qaeda. However they were both huge threats to our interests abroad. This is why they were demonized and are now being exterminated.



posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
But the Problem here is, that China does not Dictate other countries what to do, YET (such as Iran and North Korea).


Where you been Willis?

Souljah, China has been dictating to Taiwan and a number of other nations for quite sometime.





What makes you think that they are not on CIA Payrole anymore?

Ummmm, errr, because the same organization [the CIA] that trained, armed, founded, and created them, as per your saying so, has indicated that they are not on their or US payrolls any longer.








seekerof

[edit on 4-12-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Where you been Willis?

Souljah, China has been dictating to Taiwan and a number of other nations for quite sometime.

Ive been Working (Im at work right now, so I cant really write alot!).
Well, I know that Taiwan is a Problem - like Kosovo is for the Serbs and Kuwait is for Iraqis, Taiwan is for Chinese. So, I think it is just a matter of time, before they "Annex" this little Island to the Chinese Empire. But they did not do that YET - and Frankly, Taiwan is very close to China, it is not some Country in the Middle East that they would go Invading, yaknowhatImean?



Ummmm, errr, because the same organization [the CIA] that trained, armed, founded, and created them, as per your saying so, has indicated that they are not on their or US payrolls any longer.


How do You know that?
I dont think we know about SECRET CIA Operations - otherwise they would not be Secret anymore, yaknow?




posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
And with People like YOU, .........

Tit for Tat, very childish !!



Before the CIA came to Afganistan there were NO Mujahedeen.

Wrong. As soon as the Soviets attacked Afganistan their wasnt any organized force set up by America to counter the Soviets, various Afghan sections were fighting independently against the God less soviets and thus they declared jihad against the Soviets and those jihadi's were called the mujahideen or the "strugglers". The US came much later when they recognized the potential of the resistence movement and how effective it was against the Soviets. The US then financed, trained and equipped them. And the rest is history.
Do I need to give you a history lesson every time on every topic ??



Remember Rambo 3 - the Embodyment of US Special Forces, fighting alongside with Taliban? I guess your current "anti-islamic" Agenda has forced you to completly forget and ignore that FACT from the Past.

This is just foolish !! Rambo 3 is your idea of the US Special Forces ??
YOu are definitely deluded, Rambo 3 is garbage and nothing more, a fantasy that was NOTHING like what really happened. The US provided weapons, training and money to the Mujahideen- that is true but sent in Special Forces to take out the Soviets? Why would they need to ? The mujahideen were doing a bang up job themselves and maybe the CIA guys did get their hands dirty but never the US army Special Operiation !
As for me being anti-islamist, that is relative, how pro-terrorist are you ??



posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by IAF101
..... The mujahideen were doing a bang up job themselves ....



...and they still are,

..and they still are...





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