Originally posted by Matyas
Nazi Bell-disambiguation

Henge
Uranium breeder (DOR)
Chicken breeder (UFO)

Henge
As a henge, coal had to be transported from the mine. Their trains ran on coal. They require water for their boilers. That is where they fueled up.

Actually the surviving postwar testimony of Opole railway worker Joachim Ibrom is specific that the mine was used to house a device that consumed prodigious amouts of electricity via cables from the surface, via wagons which he shunted into the mine.

The Henge was the base of a cooling tower and nothing directly concerned with the Nazi Bell. It was Nick Cook who claimed this was linked to the Bell and based on no more than conjecture.

Engine runs under tower with empty cars onto turntable, tracks are switched, boiler is refilled, train departs with cars of coal

The Wenceslas Mine also known as the Albert mine before the war was closed and flooded in 1939 following an explosion taking the lives of many miners.

From 1939 onwards the entrance to the mine was home to Molke Werke AG, a series of factories mainly producing bullets owned by Nobel Dynamit AG. labour was provided by a sub camp of Gross Rosen.

Uranium breeder
Down in a mineshaft? Perhaps, but the hearsay points to deadly orgone generation, or experimentation with the "third" force as radioisotopes. Makes sense for an unexpected detonation. Still highly speculative.

Not highly speculative at all.

It ticks all the dots and fits all the known information. If you believe otherwise you should disprove what sources such as Heisenberg said about it. If you can't disprove these sources then you are the one being speculative in dismissing reasonable evidence.

Not just Heisenberg either. You must prove to us Matyas that OSS wartime reports were wrong. Dr Ing Ernst Nagelstein disclosed to the OSS in Switzerland 2nd November 1944 that Auer was refining Thorium to metal from a mine at Gluszyca near the Wenceslas Mine and he asserted there was no known use for thorium in Germany. He also reported that Otto Hahn was working on A-bomb using Thorium to obtain Uranium.

At conferences in Harnack Haus during February and July 1942, Heisenberg strongly advocated a project to breed Proactinium (then known as Protoactinium) for the creation of nuclear weapons.

Proactinium is not naturally occuring therefore has to be bred from Thorium under X-ray irridation. Proactinium 233 Beta decays after just 27 days into Uranium 233.

At Farm Hall in August 1945, Heisenberg again referred to Proactinium as one of three methods known to Nazi scientists for creating an atomic bomb.

You also need to disprove another OSS source: (Harrison to State dept no.2958, 14 May 1943, RG 84, decimal files 863-864, Bern Confidential file, box 14)

In May 1942, pro nazi Swiss inventor named Walter Dallenbach much disliked by Allied spies Rosebaud & Respondek approached Heisenberg with a proposal for a powerful new type of cyclotron. Heisenberg recommended Dallenbach to Speer, who in turn helped in December 1942 arrange backing from the head of AEG, Hermann Bucher, then a member of the armaments board committee for new weapons. From this support Forschungsstelle D was set up at Bisingen. Dallenbach was cited by Respondek as according to Bucher having soliciting funding for the super cyclotron on the basis of developing a powerful new weapon using uranium, capable of destroying the Allies.

Chicken breeder
Adamski style UFO. Referred to as Christmas bells in newspapers when spotted over England at Christmas time. "Knockers" rotate, but don't show up in stills.

This, IMO, is the source of the legend.

As I maintain UFOs have nothing to do with Die Glocke and are mere modern speculations by lightweight uninformed commentators.

Uranium Breeder, yes. Chicken Breeder, no.

Originally posted by sy.gunson
It ticks all the dots and fits all the known information. If you believe otherwise you should disprove what sources such as Heisenberg said about it. If you can't disprove these sources then you are the one being speculative in dismissing reasonable evidence.

I can't disprove those sources because I have not yet seen those sources. However I would rather see the proof than attempt to disprove (straight out of the gate).

Not just Heisenberg either. You must prove to us Matyas that OSS wartime reports were wrong. Dr Ing Ernst Nagelstein disclosed to the OSS in Switzerland 2nd November 1944 that Auer was refining Thorium to metal from a mine at Gluszyca near the Wenceslas Mine and he asserted there was no known use for thorium in Germany. He also reported that Otto Hahn was working on A-bomb using Thorium to obtain Uranium.

Not my objective. In fact I find the information you have provided above and below both useful and insightful.

As I maintain UFOs have nothing to do with Die Glocke and are mere modern speculations by lightweight uninformed commentators.

Uranium Breeder, yes. Chicken Breeder, no.

The purpose of my disambiguation is to show there is more than one meaning, not disprove Die Glocke as a uranium breeder. I have not amassed enough knowledge to make a determination for DOR, and therefore my scepticism. With regards to the aircraft, I beg to differ with a preponderance of evidence in this area, all intentionally altered, sanitized, and polluted over several periods in history, such that any who do not possess pre existent knowledge of the UF will fail to discern the truth. I mentioned the "knockers", which are not discussed anywhere by these so called lightweight uninformed commentators, and you ignored the usage. "Bells" derives from the appearance of these craft, just as fakirs from India were given the "lgm" moniker.

Now I think they had plans. What went on paper and came out of the ground are two different matters. I know the difference between the real McCoy and a turbine part. Or a factory/school bell With swastikas drawn in. and chicken breeders from Venus

One only needs to read transcripts of conversations by captured Nazi Nuclear scientists. Karl Wirtz stated at Farm Hall (recorded conversation) that fissile isotopes were obtained by irridation of material at specific frequencies.

Three other scientists at Farm Hall referred to this technique as photo-chemistry. This refers to hi energy particle collisions with photons emitted by the fluoresence of mercury in a powerful magnetic field.

Those three scientist at Farm Hall referring to this technique were
1) Kurt Diebner
2) Paul Harteck
3) Walter Gerlach

Gerlach led the Nazi bell project from inception. Before WW2 he was famous for his co discovery with another scientist named Stern (in 1925) demonstrating how the fluoresence of mercury in a plasma field could transmute Lead Chloride into Gold. In fact a man named Franz Tausend started a commercial venture in collaboration with the Nazis about 1927, called Company 164 which actually manufactured synthetic Gold from Lead, albeit the process was uneconomic (ie it cost more than the Gold produced).

If one can use Mercury to change lead to Gold then one can certainly use mercury to change Thorium 232 into Protactinium 233. This naturally decays after 27 days into almost pure bomb grade Uranium 233, with impurity of less than 0.02%.

This was one of three methods which Heisenberg advocated for obtaining fissile bomb material at the Harnack Haus conferences of 1942. Later in the Farm hall transcripts recorded in August 1945 Heisenberg again referred to harvesting Protactinium 233 for an atomic bomb project.

The method for harvesting Pa233 was to irridate Thorium and beryllium in a heavy particle accelerator and this device was the Nazi Bell.

The ALSOS mission captured two Nazi Bell devices in 1945.One was captured at Bissingen by the US 1269th combat engineers (attached to ALSOS) and later a second Nazi Bell was captured at Roggendorf, which was known by the SS codename Berg Kristall 10. Another underground facility nearby at Melk codenamed Berg Kristall 9 was responsible for fabrication of the nuclear weapons. Collectively these are called "Quartz II"

After the war Prof Manfred von Ardenne led the famous Soviet nuclear scientist Igor Kurchatov to the Wenceslas mine and disclosed that this once housed two cyclotron type devices. A swiss scientist Dallenbach referred to them as "Super Klystrons."

There is no need for guess work. Anyone who digs for facts and sources can find the truth.