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Originally posted by bank teller
So like, if the main testing was done down the bowels of a now flooded mine shaft, how do we know it was done down the mine shaft since it's all flooded?
Did I miss something or what? Where is it written in anyone's book or report that someone knows for sure it was done deep underground? And, when did those shafts get all filled up? Right after the war? It's too murky for me to make sense of.....so far....I don't think even Witkowski went into a flooded mine shaft.....
The Wenceslas Mine, where the Bell ended up, had
been requisitioned by the S S as part of a neighboring underground
weapons complex, code-named Riese—"Giant."
Riese, only part-completed by the end of the war, was an attempt to
transform an entire mountain into an underground weapons production
center. The many tens of kilometers of galleries that had been tunneled
by the end of the war had been clawed from the rock by inmates drafted
in from the nearby concentration camp of Gross-Rosen. Modern
excavations of Riese show that the S S had been attempting to link it to the
Wenceslas mine via a tunnel almost ten kilometers long.
Page 188 - The Hunt for Zero Point
The chamber in which the experiments took place was situated in a
gallery deep belowground. It had a floor area of approximately 30 square
meters and its walls were covered with ceramic tiles with an overlay of
thick rubber matting. After approximately ten tests, the room was dismantled
and its component parts destroyed. Only the Bell itself was
preserved. The rubber mats were replaced every two to three experiments
and were disposed of in a special furnace.
Page 192
After the war, when the Russians eventually made it into these hills, they would have found an abandoned complex given over to some quasi-military purpose, a mine shaft that had been flooded, possibly deliberately, and little more.
Page 197
Originally posted by bank teller
On page 196: "Almost everything that was known about the Wenceslas Mine had been handed down from Sporrenberg"
Bear this in mind when we take in anything Witkowski has to say. If he cannot offer up hard evidence of what Sporrenberg wrote/said, then it's all hearsay.
Originally posted by mad scientist
What I am saying is the ' Henge ' structure wasn't the main theme in the story of the Bell, it was the mine. So, even if the Henge was or wasn't the base of the cooling tower isn't any proof that it didn't exist. that was only the theory of the Polish guy.
All teh other information supposedly came from that SS General captured by the NKVD.
Now if someone could actually descend into the shaft, that should prove either way, if the story of the Bell has any truth.
Originally posted by Count
but I don't find it at all surprising that an published author/researcher doesn't have time to answer all emails which demand proof or evidence. It could be that I'm reading too much from that single sentence, and (obviously) I'm one who "wants to believe"
I'll get back to this after I get off from work.
Correct, but keep in mind that the only source claiming the existance of "The Bell" is Polsih author Igor Witkowski so far. All he could tell about this device he allegedly read in some classified, unofficial Polish post-war trial records about an SS officer named Jakob Sporrenberg. No second person or any other hint about the existance of the "Bell" has shown up yet. That much to the "actual apparatus".
Fred Houpt aka Bank teller wrote:
What Gerold was able to do is contact Witkowski many times by email and Witkowski confirmed that only he saw the supposed documents in Polish archives and due to the situation at hand in the days that he saw them he was unable to get photocopies of them. So, for now he has no hard evidence other than his testimony.
The 'bell' does not exist now and might not have ever existed. What does exist at that site in southern Poland is decaying buildings, a strange Henge structure that once held something, underground tunnels and paths in the forest that are largely grown over. Much of what went on there is not fully known to this day.
What a cooling tower was doing where the Henge now sits is maybe not so hard to imagine because the area is littered with industrial buildings in various degrees of decay. We know that the area had all kinds of above and below ground manufacturing and so there was a strong need for electricity.
Gerold does not make a claim that he cannot support. He just drew the logical conclusions that any one of us would have made.
Originally posted by sy.gunson
Correct, but keep in mind that the only source claiming the existance of "The Bell" is Polsih author Igor Witkowski so far. All he could tell about this device he allegedly read in some classified, unofficial Polish post-war trial records about an SS officer named Jakob Sporrenberg. No second person or any other hint about the existance of the "Bell" has shown up yet. That much to the "actual apparatus".
Not correct Golf Sierra. Jakob Sporrenberg was not just any officer. He was a Lieutenant General in the SS and head of the secret police in Norway.
en.wikipedia.org...
pl.wikipedia.org...
There is also corroboration in a postwar interrogation report of SS Hauptsturmfuhrer Rudolf Schuster held at the Berlin document centre about the Ju-390 being loaded near Schweidnitz in April 1945 with the bell for an evacuation flight to Bodo Norway.
During the Nuremberg trials British journalist and wartime intelligence officer Tom Agoston hid SS Col Dr Wilhelm Voss in his house. Whilst hiding there Voss also told Agoston in confidence about the Ju-390's evacuation of the bell. After Voss died, Agoston published his postwar interviews with Voss.
A further source is the Argentine Economic Minstry's Intelligence report about the Ju-390 landing in Entre Rios province in May 1945 to unload a "bell" device.
What is worthy of note is that prior to declassification of the Sporrenberg interrogations in 1998, nobody actually knew what the bell device was, therefore we have numerous historical references to the bell device, but it was Sporrenberg who actually explained what the device did.
Schuster disclosed that SS Scharfuhrer Dr Kurt Debus accompanied the bell device on it's flight from Silesia to Norway in 1945. It is not clear precisely where Debus was captured after the war, though his V-2 unit was based at Cuxhaven in 1945.
Dr Kurt Debus became the head of NASA's Cape Kennedy rocket launch station.
The henge like base of a cooling tower has nothing directly to do with the Bell itself. The bell was a centrifuge with two spherical bells which contra- rotated each other containing mercury. Special compouinds with violet or pinkish colour were placed in a porcelain vase at the centre of this centrifuge. As it was spun up the spheres were subjected to electrical fields and this ionised the mercury until it fluoresced an ionised gas plasma. The plasma affected the compound at it's centre and it was this compound which the Nazis were seeking.
One explanation which I have heard is that it resulted in a reagent liquid which when used with explosives created a huge fuel air explosive.
[edit on 16-11-2008 by sy.gunson]