Natural and Artificial flavors?

Sources on the amyl acetate/amyl alcohol?

The source is called......SCIENCE!

No, not really. Unless you can show me that the vinegar process is considered artificial and is more harmful, I'm going to have to call that a myth. If a credible source is shown, then I'll accept it, but for now, it's just a statement by someone on a messageboard. Notice how I always back my statements up with credible journal articles, or something OTHER than a dot com written by someone in a special interests group, Excitable_Boy?

Notice how I always back my statements up with credible journal articles, or something OTHER than a dot com written by someone in a special interests group, Excitable_Boy?

Special interest groups? Oh, you mean groups that care about human lives vs. the groups that are out to destroy them for financial gain and to reduce the planet's population. Groups that are against genocide for any reason. Groups that think all human lives matter.

I tell you what, the world would be a much better place if ALL groups had such interests.

Why not just stop buying aspartame products if you think they're so dangerous? People like me who feel it isn't because we can control ourselves and eat in moderation would like to continue using our sugar substitutes. I don't think I like very much the idea of living in a police state where you choose what I can and cannot eat by banning chemicals you personally feel are bad.

I'd like to say my opinions of these artificial flavors are somwhere in the middle of bsl and excitable boy.

I agree that some companies want to reap the benefits of cheap drugs and additives, but some actually want to make a difference or help people. Moderation is definately the key.

We should be able to know what we are ingesting nowadays. And it seems like there is a shortage of knowledge. I do not believe we should have to go out of our way to find out information on foods. It should be given to us.

Most all of the information we hear or read about artificial flavors is second hand. Not too many people are directly knowledgeable on these subjects. However, im pretty sure "bsl" is in close contact with these first person resources.

Excitable Boy... you do make valid points. Some are more extreme or tough to varify, but they do raise important questions. Nothing is what it seems.

Does anyone have more information on natural or artificial flavors

Bsl and excitable boy.. thanks for creating an intriguing discussion.

I know this is kinda off topic, but I just want to commend nonpoint on a reasoned, logical post. He speaks his point of view clearly and without insult.
Grande! Continuare a fare il lavoro buono!

I agree that moderation is definitely the key. I don't, however, feel these companies are being at all withholding on information. You can, and I have, simply call the company and receive not only basic information, but complicated chemical data. Part of my research in undergrad was the effect of methanol on binding to DNA, as it is wont to do in samples. Nutrasweet is reported to sometimes produces small amounts of methanol in bodies, so I simply called the manufacturer and inquired about the chemical components, empirical formula of the compounds, and melting points. They were more than inviting, provided the information, and as my research progressed, their data coincided directly with my experimental data. Also, the methanol binding ended up being due to another intermediate, not directly linked to methanol, and it also seemed to stabilize the DNA, not degrade it. An interesting side effect. Now, as nonpoint said, he doesn't feel people should have to search for it. However, people do have to search for statistics on plane crashes. When you buy a plane ticket, they don't give you all the stats on plane related fatalities. Same goes for buying cars, buying foods which allergies commonly react to (peanuts, almonds, etc.), foods with high cholesterol content, or foods containing high fructose corn syrup, which is actually MUCH more damaging than aspartame as it binds to the kidneys and can last for years, as it is very slowly broken down. I do, however, respect nonpoints opinions, as he was able to express them with such clarity and even-handedness.
~MFP

[edit on 29-12-2005 by bsl4doc]

Thanks, bsl

Im going to give you a way above vote, not just because you gave me some positive comments, but because you actually back up and state all your information.

Keep up your work in school, I hope to be doing the same at Northeastern soon.

Could you tell us whats your major? and any more information you have on natural flavors, it seems these are being overlooked. But im not sure. Can food labels group anything under natural flavors, as most every ingredient is found naturally.

Thanks again

- Dave

Northeasern looks like a great school, I don't really know much about it, but the reviews and scores of it on princetonreview.com look great. In undergrad, I was actually a molecular biology major with a minor in English literature. Right now, I'm in my second year of medical school.

As far as the categorization of natural and artificial flavors, the FDA cites is as follows:
"The term artificial flavor or artificial flavoring means any substance, the function of which is to impart flavor, which is not derived from a spice, fruit or fruit juice, vegetable or vegetable juice, edible yeast, herb, bark, bud, root, leaf or similar plant material, meat, fish, poultry, eggs, dairy products, or fermentation products thereof. Artificial flavor includes the substances listed in 172.515(b) and 582.60 of this chapter except where these are derived from natural sources."

They define natural flavors as follows:
"The term natural flavor or natural flavoring means the essential oil, oleoresin, essence or extractive, protein hydrolysate, distillate, or any product of roasting, heating or enzymolysis, which contains the flavoring constituents derived from a spice, fruit or fruit juice, vegetable or vegetable juice, edible yeast, herb, bark, bud, root, leaf or similar plant material, meat, seafood, poultry, eggs, dairy products, or fermentation products thereof, whose significant function in food is flavoring rather than nutritional. Natural flavors, include the natural essence or extractives obtained from plants listed in subpart A of part 582 of this chapter, and the substances listed in 172.510 of this chapter."

You can find the quoted text at
FDA-Natural vs. Artificial Flavorings

Hope this helps! Thanks for the vote.

Ciao e ci vediamo.
~MFP

Personal attacks and bait removed!

Back on topic...

[edit on 12/30/2005 by Gools]

I'm not a med student, but I noticed something that got me thinking....
Campbells Soup, it seems that almost every flavor contains Monosodium Glutamate(MSG). Then they come out with a new line called "Healthy Request" and right there on the
front of the label it says "No MSG".
I've been told for years that MSG was bad for you and I do get headaches sometimes after ingesting a product containing MSG. I normally avoid products with MSG, but companies are allowed to call it quite a few different names. That fact sometimes makes it difficult to tell if it's in a certain product.

Is Campbells admitting that MSG is not healthy? And if that's the case, why do they use it at all?

I'm going to ignore Excitable_Boy's off topic insult post and let the mods handle

Beer_Guy: What other names have you seen MSG called? I've only ever seen MSG. Only a small portion of the population has adverse effects after ingesting MSG. Same goes with aspartame (those with phenylktonuria react to the phenylalanine in aspartame). Unfortunately, you are one of the few who react to MSG.

Removed personal attack.

Enough already!

Back on topic...

[edit on 12/30/2005 by Gools]

bsl4doc, www.rense.com... is the second of 59,000 hits when searching at Yahoo! for : +MSG +"other names"

I have a partial list, but I would rather that you see it yourself.

In the early 40's MSG was on the list of possible chemical warefare chemicals. Dump some in the enemy's water supply to cause confusion and disorientation.
If you ask me to show you proof, I'd just go to yahoo.com and look it up. So Here is a link to Yahoo so you don't have to trust my word.

Another one that bothers me is Polyethylene Glycol. It's some nasty stuff.

Hmm, yeah, I did a search on monosodium glutamate on yahoo and google.com, and came up with some sites that obviously served an agenda, so are obviously biased. I prefer scholar.google.com. I use it for a lot of my medical research in class, and it allows you to look up scholarly articles that are much less biased than someone's personal dot com as you can actually review their processes and see if they are skewing data. The scholarly articles and research show that MSG is only dangerous to MSG sensitive people, of which there are few compared to the population at whole, and the only types of adverse effects seen in the mice and rhesus monkeys used in studies occured at immense levels that humans would never experience in food. As a reference, MSG content is regulated at 0.2%-0.8% of the food's mass, any higher than 0.8% will ruin the taste of food, as MSG triggers a set of taste buds known as the "savoury" taste buds.