F-117 Shot down in 1999

Originally posted by Iblis
Simply making an observation:

"In another incident, an Iraqi MiG-25PD, after eluding eight USAF F-15s, fired three missiles at EF-111 electronic warfare aircraft, forcing them to abort their mission.[5] This may have led to the later loss of an F-15 to surface-to-air missiles, due to the lack of electronic jamming."

Anyone else see what is wrong with this?

What about it? The fact that it slipped past 8 F-15s?

Originally posted by StellarX
As far as my information goes it was never flown.

No it was not, some specific systems were tested and the whole plane was disassembled for study but you are right it was never officially test flown.

Originally posted by StellarX
Sure some does but just how much can bear learnt about the capabilities of a plane that were not even flown at the time?

With the pilot cooperating a lot more than we knew before.

Originally posted by StellarX
Well according to the 'official' record the F-15 have managed the same feat.

Which should not be overlooked when one speaks of the F-15 Eagle, whatever your views on it.

Originally posted by StellarX
True but maybe a bit of context might indicate what might have happened had the USAF had to contend with a thousand of these planes in the 1980's?

I have no doubt the result would have been different, it is my opinion that the US was never in a position past the 60's to take on the Soviets over their own territory and "win". Still, all the examples we have mentioned do nothing but validate the long held view that anything used properly and in the right scenario can bring you a desired outcome, most of the time that is. You share this view. no?

Originally posted by Canada_EH

What about it? The fact that it slipped past 8 F-15s?

Read it very carefully and look at the way it's worded. It sounds quite strange to me.

[edit on 17-8-2007 by urmomma158]

Originally posted by Iblis
Simply making an observation:

"In another incident, an Iraqi MiG-25PD,

more then once incident has occoured.

after eluding eight USAF F-15s,

One mig on 8 F-15 undetected

fired three missiles at EF-111 electronic warfare aircraft, forcing them to abort their mission. This may have led to the later loss of an F-15 to surface-to-air missiles, due to the lack of electronic jamming."

The EF-111 is scared off and this possibly then leads to a F-15 later being lost to a sam

Originally posted by WestPoint23
No it was not, some specific systems were tested and the whole plane was disassembled for study but you are right it was never officially test flown.

Official not and as far as i can tell not unofficially either.

With the pilot cooperating a lot more than we knew before.

Sure but was the pilot 'cooperating' in any useful sense of the word? Why did he basically argue for the lowest specifications when recent history established the true capabilities?

Which should not be overlooked when one speaks of the F-15 Eagle, whatever your views on it.

If one believes that non have been shot down then it would indeed lead one to believe that's it's a pretty special plane.

I have no doubt the result would have been different, it is my opinion that the US was never in a position past the 60's to take on the Soviets over their own territory and "win".

That's about 5-10 years before conventional wisdom so all in all pretty enlightened opinion.

Still, all the examples we have mentioned do nothing but validate the long held view that anything used properly and in the right scenario can bring you a desired outcome, most of the time that is.

Sure but waiting for those special moments hopefully using those not so special weapons properly might give a you ulcer, if works out that is.

You share this view. no?

Being a war gamer and all i can't do much but agree.

Stellar

Originally posted by StellarX
Sure but was the pilot 'cooperating' in any useful sense of the word? Why did he basically argue for the lowest specifications when recent history established the true capabilities?

He was questioned and interrogated for five months, obviously we thought he was being cooperative enough. Also, I am not aware of specific comments from Belenko that have been contradicted. He was citing the capabilities of the Mig-25 as he knew them in 1976.

Originally posted by StellarX
If one believes that non have been shot down...

Both versions have been shot down, multiple times, just not by other aircraft.

By the way, what is up with all those smug looking smilies?

you should'nt be so shocked, we brits have got SAM systems that can track the117 and the B2

Interesting, however technically speaking almost any military can track the F-117 and B-2 as well as our other VLO aircraft.

One mig slipped past 8 F-15s? I am only going to tell you this once, but there is more to this story than one 'Mach 3 Mig was undetected by 8 crappy F-15C's.

you should'nt be so shocked, we brits have got SAM systems that can track the117 and the B2

Yeah... from about 1 and a half miles away.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
He was questioned and interrogated for five months, obviously we thought he was being cooperative enough.

It was in fact a propaganda coup, for those that wished to disarm the US, that he escaped with a plane and were willing to say such dismissive things about the Mig-25's capabilities.

lso, I am not aware of specific comments from Belenko that have been contradicted. He was citing the capabilities of the Mig-25 as he knew them in 1976.

I provided a link earlier and i think the record shows clearly that Belenko consistently related the minimum capabilities. There is for instance little to suggest that the Mig-25 did not have a clear capability against Mach 3+ platforms yet Belenko states that it could not intercept what it was in part designed to intercept?

Both versions have been shot down, multiple times, just not by other aircraft.

The F-15 has supposedly not been shot down in air to air combat...

By the way, what is up with all those smug looking smilies?

It's a regular smile and i can't help if the ATS icons looks a bit odd to you... They were intended as regular smiles and i have neither the reason or the inclination to be smug about any information i provide or believe to be accurate....

I suppose that may create less confusion..

Stellar

reply to post by Zaphod58


"The planes were on the same routes, night after night at the same time. It was a lesson that SHOULD have been learned after Vietnam, but apparently wasn't."...

I remember the VN B-52 issue well as worked for a B.Gen. who was very angry when hearing of the losses and reasons. He lost his promotion to a second star and retired shortly thereafter.
mc

Originally posted by intelgurl
Are you referring to the F-15 Streak Eagle? That was used as a platform for ASAT tests but AFAIK not ABM tests. Also the Streak Eagle was not as fast as the SR-71 but it did set some altitude records.

I could be wrong though, Got any links to back up the claim on the F-15's speed?

Yeah, I know it took a long time to reply to this, but the Streak Eagle was only used to set speed records. It was never returned to service after the records were set. It was stripped of EVERYTHING extraneous, including paint, and coasted to 103,000 feet on one test. On that test it went from brake release to 98,425 feet in 3 minutes 27.8 seconds.

The F-15A Streak Eagle was 72-0119. The first F-15 used for the ASAT tests was 76-0086. It carried the Vought ASM-135A, which used an AMG-69 first stage, and the second stage of an Altair III rocket. It would zoom climb with the rocket in the centerline position, and at the peak of the climb would fire it at the satellite. They successfully shot down the Solwind P78-1 using 77-0084 of the 6512th Test Squadron from Edwards, on Sept 13, 1985.

reply to post by C0bzz


Who said it was undetected? It eluded them, which is a totally different story. All it had to do to elude them was outrun them. There was another MiG-25 that simply outran 4 F-15s that fired 10 missiles at it. It was simply too fast for them to catch and kill.

I'd hardly call the F-15 "crappy" however. It's one of the better fighters out there. Even if you don't look at the record, look at how many countries were impressed enough to buy them. Including very recent orders from Korea, and Saudi Arabia.

reply to post by Zaphod58


It was Sarcasm lol.

F-15 is one of greatest fighters of all time.

F-15's have never went against Russian Su-27/MiG-29, they've just went against old MiG-29 A/B's

reply to post by planeman


It's not true that we knew the route of the plane. We used an old Russian radar which can detect it although the new radars can't. A man who shot down the plane told that.

I have never ever heard that. Its common knowledge that the USAF has a bad habit of force their aircraft through flight-paths/corridors that can then be predicted by the enemy. It would make sense to me then that if this was known and enough SAMs where sent up you could get a hit like happened.

Out of interest and being balanced could you supply us with the name/type of radar that was claimed to have been used. Thanks in advance.

Hi bitches my name is Dragan and i live in serbia ,town Subotica...and i was here when mother#ers was coming...and we play soccer and live free,because we wasn't affraid of usa assols,and other pigs and......
We were waiting u.s. to come with their spec ops to bury them alive...
someone will say that we are a master of death,but i will disaree with that,we were just defend our COUNTRY AND COUNTRYMEN...many people escape fro Serbia during the war and i understan them,but rest of us were try to live in this country no mater f what hapens.
IF SOMEONE SIZE LIKE NATO ATTACK YOUR COUNTRY WHAT WOULD REALLY YOU DO????Run away,and leave everything you earn for you life???
What would you do when you know that is no way to escape because all other country is in NATO or just affraid to oppose NATO???WHAT WOULD YOU DO???
we have 1 option,and that was...to fight for uor families,for oursefls,for our motherland,and for ours dignity.I'm 23 year old and i'm proud to say that i live in Serbia.AND I'M REALLY SORRY FOR YOUR PLANE,WE WASN'T KNOW THAT IS INVISIBLE.SORRY AGAIN,AND PLEASE NEXT TIME WARN US THAT YOU ARE DRIVING A AN INVISIBLE PLANE,VEHICLE,TRUCK AND MAYNE SHOES. P.S. Ni je sve u tehnologiji treba imati malo mozga...i sa starom opremom uz pametne momke se moze sjebati nava tehnologija...dali smo vam konkretan primer F-177/a shot down.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


In fact, stealth fighters are detected without problems in 50km range every time over Serbian sky... now, when almost 10 years pass we can talk about that. The only problem and reason why only few of them are shot down (yeah, just one officially but remember how much manipulations was even with him from Nato: It isn't ours... It's Serbian airplane etc. and finally they admitt, this about few is also trusted info) is because there were many NATO airplanes over Serbian sky so if you try to shot some airplane, the others can destroy air and radar system, you can't shot them all at once and the best choice is to stay quiet while you get your chance 1on1.

I don't want to 'advertise' another forum, but this interview is with the F-117 pilot who ejected. Fantastic read!!!

www.airwarriors.com...