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Who are the 24 elders????

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posted on Nov, 27 2005 @ 04:02 PM
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In the book of revelations it mentions the 24 elders who surrond the thorne of god...in my opinion these elders are some type of galactic council...it reminds me of the star wars's jedi council




posted on Nov, 27 2005 @ 04:50 PM
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I no Earth Sister has a connection to a galactic council, I don't know how many are in it though! You never no! Other than that it is a very good question. Could they be the NWO? Hmmmmm got me thinking now!



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 01:31 AM
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In Revelation (note, the proper lack of an "s"), other creatures are certainly mentioned, and that is definitley a curious thing. As far as a council is concerned, one is not necessary for the Creator of the universe as it is His, as is all creation. Who they are and from where they come is very interesting, though.

I don't see this as an aliens and ufo topic, though. Would you like the opportunity to elaborate, possibly a conspiracy in religion, if you or someone else can connect the dots to some way that man, or the aliens, hid some meaning in Revelation?

I'll move it, someone give it a shot!



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 08:13 AM
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I can't find a passage about 24 elders. In doing an online search via this site:
Bible Gateway

I did find references to 'elders' as being interpreted as 'senators', (Numbers 11:16,17,24,25) here, which of course makes sense for the actual meaning of senators: 'seniors'.

The Revelation of John the Elder is supposed to have been written well into roman times, perhaps the 24 Elders are a group of Senators working against Nero, perhaps even 24 Secret Christian Senators?

Depends on the interpretation. Makes it more of a theological question.



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 09:06 AM
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Biblegateway

Revelation 4
The Throne Room of Heaven
1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.”
2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne. 3 And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald. 4 Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads. 5 And from the throne proceeded lightnings, thunderings, and voices. Seven lamps of fire were burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
6 Before the throne there was a sea of glass, like crystal. And in the midst of the throne, and around the throne, were four living creatures full of eyes in front and in back. 7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second living creature like a calf, the third living creature had a face like a man, and the fourth living creature was like a flying eagle. 8 The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying:


I believe this is the passage never listened to my nan and her bible rants so have no idea who they are yet but will dig deeper.

[edit on 28-11-2005 by perspicientia]



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 09:29 AM
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Reading the bible is all about interpretation as Nygdan says. Here are a few possibles without going into the more out there choices.

1 Summers and Hailey suggest that they depict the twelve patriarchs of
Israel and the twelve apostles.
2

Thomas Ice
"The 24 elders of Revelation 4:1-5:14 are best understood as representative of the church. Dr. Charles Ryrie explains:

"In the New Testament, elders as the highest officials in the church do represent the whole church (cf. Acts 15:6; 20:28), and in the Old Testament, twenty-four elders were appointed by King David to represent the entire Levitical priesthood (I Chron. 24). When those twenty-four elders met together in the temple precincts in Jerusalem, the entire priestly house was represented. Thus it seems more likely that the elders represent redeemed human beings, . . . the church is included and is thus in heaven before the tribulation begins."

If these elders refer to the church, then it would mean at least two things: 1) It would necessitate the rapture and reward of the church before the tribulation and would require a chronological gap for them to perform their heavenly duties during the seven-year tribulation. 2) It would also show that the completed church was already in heaven before events of the tribulation begin."


There are plenty more however they don't seem in bible circles to be any kind of galactic council. The 24 elders are from initial delving look to be either humans or some metaphore for something to do with the church. I would however be interested if any more out there theories get posted.

[edit on 28-11-2005 by perspicientia]

[edit on 28-11-2005 by perspicientia]



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 10:13 AM
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Here's Revelation 4:4 from the Blue Letter Bible with the corresponding Strong's numbers.


Rev 4:4 And [2532] round about [2943] the throne [2362] [were] four [5064] and [2532] twenty [1501] seats [2362]: and [2532] upon [1909] the seats [2362] I saw [1492] (5627) four [5064] and [2532] twenty [1501] elders [4245] sitting [2521] (5740), clothed [4016] (5772) in [1722] white [3022] raiment [2440]; and [2532] they had [2192] (5627) on [1909] their [846] heads [2776] crowns [4735] of gold [5552].


4245 -"elders":

1) elder, of age,
a) the elder of two people
b) advanced in life, an elder, a senior

1) forefathers
2) a term of rank or office
a) among the Jews

1) members of the great council or Sanhedrin (because in early times the rulers of the people, judges, etc., were selected from elderly men)

2) of those who in separate cities managed public affairs and administered justice
b) among the Christians, those who presided over the assemblies (or churches) The NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters interchangeably
c) the twenty four members of the heavenly Sanhedrin or court seated on thrones around the throne of God


letusreason.org - Sanhedrin- A group of 70 men who were a religious political body for Israel ( a Jewish supreme Court) made up if 24 chief priests (Saducess) 24 elders (Pharisees) 22 scribes and one high priest overall (71).religious men who dictated how people were to worship God and practice Judaism.


(emphasis mine) - I find this site very helpfull.

A Study of the Book of Revelation

Based on the principle that what is in the heavenly Temple is mirrored on the earth, it would seem that these 24 "elders" are a counterpart to the twenty-four divisions of the Levitical priesthood. The question on whether these elders are human or angelic beings is discussed in the notes to verse 10, below.

The Zohar also speaks of the eastern gate to the heavenly Holy of Holies, which is guarded by twenty-four sentinels:


I'll keep looking around and see what else i can find but this should give you a decent starting point.



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 11:31 AM
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Here's a few theories i have found. I must admit however, that i don't have a personal opinion on this. I've read Revelation several times and for some reason this has never really jumped out at me, but it's very interesting so thanks for bringing this up.




escapeallthesethings.com

I think I finally deduced the most reasonable literal scriptural "allegory-free" answer to the question a few years ago.

...snip...


John is seeing the 24 elders and four creatures in Heaven in his time. There's nothing indicating that it is a future scene. It's simply the throne room in Heaven. Later we do get a scene of the same throne room in the future, but this time with many souls standing on it singing the song of Moses and the song of the lamb. That appears to be after the rapture, or gathering of the Firstfruits to Heaven for sure, since it happens after the 7th trumpet and the seven bowl angels arew are seen parading out to deliver their deadly payload (Rev 15:1-6).

...snip...


24 Elders Men, Not 24 "Elder Angels"

...snip...

These firstfruits were pictured and predicted in the Torah/Law by the Feast of the Firstfruits rehearsal done each year on the Sunday morning after Passover by a wave sheaf of barley being waved to God by the high priest: (Leviticus 23:10-11)


And we find that just as Jesus was raised on that day, so were several Firstfruit saints: ( Matthew 27:50-53)

...snip...

And it would give us a reasonable answer for who the 24 elders in Heaven are. They are the glorified saints who were raised in the "First of the Firstfruits" resurrection of the Messiah. It's the best answer I have—so far =) Drop me a line and share yours if you have a better one.



gotquestions.org
Question: "Who are the twenty-four (24) elders in Revelation?"

Answer: Revelation 4:4 declares, “Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.” The Book of Revelation nowhere specifically identifies who the twenty-four elders represent.
One possible view that they represent the twelve tribes of Israel and the twelve apostles.

Others view the twenty-four elders as "representatives" of believers from all of time.

Still others believe the twenty-four elders to be angelic creatures of some sort - seraphim or cherubim.

Whatever the case, it is impossible to be dogmatic. The Bible simply does not give us enough information about the identity of the twenty-four elders.
Recommended Resource:Understanding End Times Prophesy by Paul Benware.



www.redmoonrising.com...
The Red Moon Rapture prophetic model maintains the position that the Day of the Lord, and thus the Tribulation, begins on the earth after the breaking of the sixth seal. The rapture of the church takes place immediately prior to the events of the sixth seal and the church is then seen in heaven after the Polar Shift as the Great Multitude of Revelation 7:9-17. This view is unique with respect to commonly accepted pre-trib models and this article defends it.

...snip...

"Hence, from these three clues, the twenty-four elders must represent the church saints. If this is true, then they provide further evidence for a pre-tribulation Rapture. The church is already in heaven in chapter four and five before the tribulation begins in chapter six." (The Footsteps of the Messiah, p.114).


I kinda like gotquestions.org's answer; we don't really know. When we "need" to we will, but no harm in looking imho. Haven't found anyone pushing the "galactic counsel" angle yet...but i'm sure there's someone if i look hard enough.



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 04:36 PM
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1 Summers and Hailey suggest that they depict the twelve patriarchs of
Israel and the twelve apostles.
2 Thomas Ice
"The 24 elders of Revelation 4:1-5:14 are best understood as representative of the church. Dr. Charles Ryrie explains:




I also believe the number 24 symbolically stands for the 12 patriarchs and the 12 apostles, and it is the church that has been raptured to heaven. Jews and Gentiles, that's what this world of people consists of. This is those who have placed there faith in Christ alone for salvation.

Rev.1
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
[2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
[3] Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
[4] John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
[6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Notice REV. is written to the servants of God in His churches and also notice in verse 5 and 6 that those that have been saved by the blood of Christ have been made to be kings and priests unto God.

Rev.4
[1] After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
[2] And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
[3] And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
[4] And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Now notice a door was opened in heaven and the command to "Come up hither" was given. Then notice we see the 24 elders in heaven. No more mention of churches on earth but several mentionings of the 24 elders in heaven.

Rev.5
[6] And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
[7] And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
[8] And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
[9] And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
[10] And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
[11] And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

Now remember from Revelation 1:6 that the saved are going to be kings and priests unto God. Now look at Revelation 5:8-10 The 24 elders fall down before Christ and sing a song. The elders have come out of every kindred, tongue, people and nation(the world of all times) and now really pay attention to verse 10, these 24 elders are made to be kings and priests just like Revelation 1:6. I think it's quite obvious that these "24" elders are the church that has been raptured to heaven because that is who they are and they are seen in heaven after a door has been opened and the command given to come up hither. Notice this all happens before the events of the tribulation begin.

Now look at Rev. 5:10 many are around the throne and a distinction is made. Who is around the throne 1)angels, 2)beasts, 3)elders, the elders are not angels and they are not beasts they are a distinct group.

If this were the only part of the Bible that talked about a rapture this would be enough. But there are other verses that tell of the rapture. I believe it is plain who the 24 elders are and where they are and how they got there.

THERE WILL BE a rapture of the CHURCH before the tribulation, if anyone cannot see this after careful reading of just this little part of the Bible, then I honestly don't know what to say except that there is a blindness on your spirit that prevents you from understanding this.


[edit on 28-11-2005 by dbrandt]

[edit on 28-11-2005 by dbrandt]

[edit on 28-11-2005 by dbrandt]



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by Rren
I kinda like gotquestions.org's answer; we don't really know. When we "need" to we will, but no harm in looking imho. Haven't found anyone pushing the "galactic counsel" angle yet...but i'm sure there's someone if i look hard enough.






Yes we do know, it's about as plain as you can get. It is the church.

You better believe there is no harm in looking into this.

Rev.1
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
[2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
[3] Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Revelation1:3 says that the person who reads, hears and keeps these things is BLESSED.

Rev.22
[10] And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand

Rev.22:10 says that these sayings are not to be sealed, GOD WANTS US TO KNOW.

You are waiting for a "galactic council" theory, OK here goes. It's not going to be a group of aliens it is going to be the people who have accepted Christ as Savior for the removal of their sins, they are the galactic council. We are told we will be kings and priests and we are told we will rule and reign with Christ. That's me and anyone else who places their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

And the best thing is there is still time to accept Christ and become part of the 24 elders/church/kings and priests unto God/galactic council.

[edit on 28-11-2005 by dbrandt]



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 06:47 PM
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In my copy (online version at scriptures.lds.org...) it is shown as the following

4 And(a) round about the throne were four and twenty(b) seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders(c) sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Bracket letters go to footnotes

4a JST Rev. 4: 4 And in the midst of the throne were four and twenty seats . . .

b GR thrones.

c D&C 77: 5.

Q. What are we to understand by the four and twenty elders, spoken of by John?
A. We are to understand that these elders whom John saw, were elders who had been faithful in the work of the ministry and were dead; who belonged to the seven churches, and were then in the paradise of God.

Note: If you didn't guess by following the link, these are the scriptures that are used by The LDS church (The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints) commonly called the mormons.

llama009



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 11:17 PM
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You'll never understand Revelation if you view it as a literal prophecy of things past or future, nor if you try to literally tie it in with other books of the Bible. Revelation is a mystical writing that attempted to assign astrological significance to the events of the day.

24 represents a complete precession of the equinox. Even in ancient times, it was known that an astrological age was 2000 years (this is an approximation, but hey it's pretty close!). The 24 elders represent the 24000 years of a complete cycle (we now know it's a bit longer than that), with 1000 years being related to a "day".

The throne is heaven. But not the metaphysical heaven you may be thinking, rather, the literal heaven - the sky.

The sea of glass is the space between earth and heaven. It's translucent, yet heaven doesn't fall.

The four living creatures are the four seasons represented by;

lion = leo (summer solstice 2000 years ago)
calf = taurus (spring equinox 2000 yeras ago)
man = aquarius (winter solstice 2000 years ago)
eagle (now known as the scorpion, but was commonly known as the eagle 2000 yeras ago) = scorpio (fall equinox).

(note that the order is backwards!)

The 6 wings of each creature represent 6000 year quarters of the complete cycle.

The eyes of the 4 creatures represent all the stars in each quadrant of the zodiac.

The seven lamps are the seven nonfixed celestial objects the ancients knew of; sun, moon, mercury, venus, mars, saturn, jupiter.

So the question is, why are the 4 creatures listed in the wrong order (summer-spring-winter-fall rather than summer-fall-winter-spring)? They aren't! 2000 years ago, the winter solstice was in Aries and transitioning to Pisces (the lamb was being sacrificed and reborn as the fish). We are now entering Aquarius. The winter solstice preceeds backwards through the zodiac.

Of course, so does the summer solstice, which is why the listing starts in leo (during the passing age of Aries 2000 years ago) and goes backwards as it maps out the 24000 year cycle to follow.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 12:24 AM
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I watched Charmed once or twice. Probably my sister's' favourite program(me)

Lol @ elders and avatars.



posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 10:47 PM
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I can tell you one thing i think there is weight to this.I have been working on the pieces to our puzzle for a while i think it might have something to do with this 2012 thing too?



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