OP/ED: The mystery of mind control

Just a couple more points to dance around this and related subjects.

I did have an experience in childhood that I had absolutely NO memory of whatsoever. However, the effects or proof of damage were still quite real, just unexplanable. Then one day, when I had entered a particularly safe and wonderful position in my life, memories started popping up. I was able to identify a person I hadn't thought of for many years from these memories and when I did a little research, found out that he was in prison for life for molesting his daughter!

So, even though the memory was temporarily inaccessible, the effects were still very real and at least some of the memory, although not complete, was still available for recovery.

Also, a certain kind of 'mind control' would be a positive kind, such as visualization, wherein people reduce tumor sizes and calm body functions.

I do believe the mind is somewhat controllable, depending on the will if the subject because there is NO WAY that I'm buying an X-box!

Very interesting thread.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Just a couple more points to dance around this and related subjects.

I did have an experience in childhood that I had absolutely NO memory of whatsoever. However, the effects or proof of damage were still quite real, just unexplanable. Then one day, when I had entered a particularly safe and wonderful position in my life, memories started popping up. I was able to identify a person I hadn't thought of for many years from these memories and when I did a little research, found out that he was in prison for life for molesting his daughter!

So, even though the memory was temporarily inaccessible, the effects were still very real and at least some of the memory, although not complete, was still available for recovery.

Also, a certain kind of 'mind control' would be a positive kind, such as visualization, wherein people reduce tumor sizes and calm body functions.

I do believe the mind is somewhat controllable, depending on the will if the subject because there is NO WAY that I'm buying an X-box!

Very interesting thread.

Heretic, I understand what you are talking about. There have been many stories written of people that forget part of their past and search to discover it, though most of these stories have to do with forgetting EVERYTHING they have ever done.

I do recall, and you cannot bias yourself against it, in a video game called Silent Hill 2, the main character searches for his dead wife in a town, only to later "remember" that he killed her several years back. It was because the event was so disturbing and tragic that his mind forced him to forget what happened.

I sure don't hope that something tragic happened to you to make you forget that event in your life. It is very possible that you forgot because it seemed unimportant to you.

At what point does the effect of modern media, advertising, pervasive viral marketing become mind control? If you believe that mind control requires the submission of the will of a person to another you are missing the far more insidious version we are all bombarded with daily.
Last week, we saw shoppers in SEVERAL Wal-marts in America, in different regions of the country, rioting violently just to buy products. This is the ugly underside of the consumerist culture that we are told is what makes America great. In light of the original sentiment behind Thanksgiving, I think it can be safely said that consumerism reflects the most un-American of behaviours. Forget what you've heard about the emergence of Evangelical Christianity in the US, it's CONSUMERISM that is the new Religion of America.
Which brings me to the second most pervasive element of mind control that is at work in the United States: the emergence of an absolutist religious belief that practically demands violence (and I'm not talking about Islamic fundamentalism). In America today, there is an absolutist pseudo-Christianity at work that has relatively little to do with the teachings of Christ, and is being manipulated by people in power to make the populace easier to govern. When your faith is the "only true faith" and all non-believers are doomed to burn in hell for eternity, it makes it a lot easier to see them as less than human. When it comes right down to it, if your neighbor isn't raising their children to be "good Christians" isn't that child abuse? And if they are endangering the immortal souls of their children (and yours), aren't you doing God's will by "taking them out"?
By putting foreign policy, environmentalism, education, especially politics in the realm of "good vs. evil" we create a population that is easy to bend to a certain way of thinking. Preachers are telling willing believers that it's a SIN to vote Democratic, that not supporting a war in Iraq is against God's will, indeed that George W. Bush has been anointed by God to rule America.
What a one-two punch this crypto-fascist pseudo-Christianity and the religion of Consumerism have had in this nation. Like shaven-head marine recruits we are being broken down, screamed at by religious leaders, talk-radio hosts and television commercials, giving up our individuality, our very wills to those whose only goal is power and/or wealth.
Mind Control? Sounds like it to me.

Originally posted by E_Pluribus_Unum
I sure don't hope that something tragic happened to you to make you forget that event in your life. It is very possible that you forgot because it seemed unimportant to you.

I think I wasn't clear. The tragic event that happened to me was sexual molestation. I blocked the memory of it because it was too traumatic for a 5-year-old to handle. Only many years later did it bubble up to the surface. But the effects were never buried with the memory.

Know what I mean? Maybe read my first post again.

I got you loud and clear the first time around, Benevolent Heretic.

I, too, had a traumatic childhood experience, albeit of a different nature, that was also suppressed for many years. The means of suppression were artificial, though, I believe. I have related this experience in other posts.

You have my complete respect and admiration for your courage and fortitude. I'm glad the dirty rotten slimeball got put away for life. I hope, for your sake, that the same can be said of what you went through.

It just breaks my heart that this sort of thing happens to begin with!

Peace to you.

I also understood you the first time around, BH, and E_P_U did too, I'll bet. It is such a delicate topic, so personal, that nobody wanted to come right out and talk about it until you did.

I'm so glad that you finally faced it. Don't let it run your life. You're doing just fine so far, from what I see of you in here.

Thank you, Icarus Rising and jsobecky.

I don't mean to turn this into a thread about molestation, but I'm comfortable talking about it and I think it's fascinating the way the mind bends to accomodate such things. And it does relate to the malleability of the mind.

One thing that's interesting is how physical memory is a separate structure (was that talked about earlier?) For years, whenever anyone (a boyfriend) would put their hands on my waist, I would jump out of my skin! It totally freaked me out and I didn't know why. Because of these recovered memories, now I do. I know exactly why and was able to 'control' my mind, through physical therapy, back into accepting it.

I'm sorry if this is off topic.

[edit on 28-11-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]

Actually, that's EXACTLY what I was talking about before. You can take away the memory, but the REACTION will still be there.

Benevolent Heretic, I have no problem with you talking about your past on this thread. You have my upmost respect and sincerity. You have went through something very dramatizing and it seems like this has made you a very strong person. You and Zap have answered one of my questions. If you was to erase a painful memory of a person, would the effect of that memory still be there? YES, it would, even though that person may not know why they are effected the certain way they are. Sometimes we have such painful memories our brain represses them deep into our subconscious. Our brain is so beautiful, and mysterious, yet we hardly know anything about it.
I believe there can be manipulative mind control AGAINST a persons will, with that person not knowing anything of it. There are some interesting research topics you can do on mind control, including the MK ULTRA project conducted by the CIA. My fear is, when there will be insidious misusage of neurochips that replace the Hippocampus in the brain for Alzheimer's patients . The Hippocampus is an area in the brain that stores factual information. These neurochips could in place false memories, and false ideas that are not your own. I mean look at the robo rats that are controlled by computers that preforms task for a quick euphoric feeling. I believe we could be next.

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Originally posted by vuoto
At what point does the effect of modern media, advertising, pervasive viral marketing become mind control? If you believe that mind control requires the submission of the will of a person to another you are missing the far more insidious version we are all bombarded with daily.
Last week, we saw shoppers in SEVERAL Wal-marts in America, in different regions of the country, rioting violently just to buy products. This is the ugly underside of the consumerist culture that we are told is what makes America great. In light of the original sentiment behind Thanksgiving, I think it can be safely said that consumerism reflects the most un-American of behaviours. Forget what you've heard about the emergence of Evangelical Christianity in the US, it's CONSUMERISM that is the new Religion of America.
Which brings me to the second most pervasive element of mind control that is at work in the United States: the emergence of an absolutist religious belief that practically demands violence (and I'm not talking about Islamic fundamentalism). In America today, there is an absolutist pseudo-Christianity at work that has relatively little to do with the teachings of Christ, and is being manipulated by people in power to make the populace easier to govern. When your faith is the "only true faith" and all non-believers are doomed to burn in hell for eternity, it makes it a lot easier to see them as less than human. When it comes right down to it, if your neighbor isn't raising their children to be "good Christians" isn't that child abuse? And if they are endangering the immortal souls of their children (and yours), aren't you doing God's will by "taking them out"?
By putting foreign policy, environmentalism, education, especially politics in the realm of "good vs. evil" we create a population that is easy to bend to a certain way of thinking. Preachers are telling willing believers that it's a SIN to vote Democratic, that not supporting a war in Iraq is against God's will, indeed that George W. Bush has been anointed by God to rule America.
What a one-two punch this crypto-fascist pseudo-Christianity and the religion of Consumerism have had in this nation. Like shaven-head marine recruits we are being broken down, screamed at by religious leaders, talk-radio hosts and television commercials, giving up our individuality, our very wills to those whose only goal is power and/or wealth.
Mind Control? Sounds like it to me.

Vuotu, I love this.

You did a very fine job of breaking down our society to what it really is, and I congratulate you. I couldn't have said it better myself.

I especially like the parts about CONSUMERISM, and how the GOVT uses Christianity as a way to keep the masses under control.

Benevolent Heretic,

So there was a very tragic event in your life. I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you, but this does prove what I had proposed: your mind can purposely forget a tragic event if it is to difficult to accept.

And this seems to be exactly what happened.

Of what I know about the brain so far, and how the mind works:

You think what you can recognize, and you shun what you don't.

*Your mind couldn't recognize or concieve this tragedy as possible, thus shunning it from your mind, and deleting it from your memory.

Originally posted by E_Pluribus_Unum
*Your mind couldn't recognize or concieve this tragedy as possible, thus shunning it from your mind, and deleting it from your memory.

Yes. But it wasn't actually deleted. Or not all of it, anyway. After working on it, I now have what seem to be 'new' memories. I remember now, see what I mean? The memories were there, stored in a place I could not access for many years. Then, (I assume) because of my age, security, strength, whatever, I was able to start remembering. Now I have real memories that weren't accessible before.

Originally posted by vuoto
At what point does the effect of modern media, advertising, pervasive viral marketing become mind control?

Just wanted to add my Great post!

Zaphod58, I have woken up on the far side of the room from my bed, cowering in a corner, crying, for no known reason. My husband found me there. That's how strong the effects were. The mind is really pretty amazing.

[edit on 28-11-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]

Well I guess now that you mention it, delete isnt the appropriate word, but rather stored away.

I hypothesized that you may have recalled what happened because your mind agreed with itself that you'd be able to handle the fact that it happened now, because you have had time to grow up and understand things like that.

The mind truly is fascinating. I've been trying to follow things going on with research into brain function for years.

Has everyone here heard the stories of Phineas Gage and more recently the firefighter that has been in a coma for 10 years? Talk about incredible. I'm sorry that I can't remember all the details about the firefighter, but things were a little hectic with all the major medical emergencies going on around me at the time it happened.

Phineas Gage:
On September 13, 1848, Phineas Gage was working outside the small town of Cavendish, Vermont on the construction of a railroad track where he was employed as a foreman. One of his duties was to set explosive charges in holes drilled into large pieces of rock so they could be broken up and removed. This involved filling the hole with gunpowder, adding a fuse, and then packing in sand with the aid of a large tamping iron. Gage was momentarily distracted and forgot to pour the sand into one hole. Thus, when he went to tamp the sand down, the tamping iron sparked against the rock and ignited the gunpowder, causing the iron to be blown through Gage's head with such force that it landed almost thirty meters behind him.
Life cast and skull of Phineas Gage
Life cast and skull of Phineas Gage

The three foot (1 m) long tamping iron with a diameter of 1.25 inches (3.2 cm) weighing thirteen and a half pounds (6.12 kg) entered his skull below his left cheek bone and exited after passing through the anterior frontal cortex and white matter. Whether the lesion involved both frontal lobes, or was limited only to the left side, remains a matter of controversy. Remarkably, after such a dramatic accident, Gage regained consciousness within a few minutes, was able to speak, and survived a 45-minute ride back to his boarding house sitting in a cart.
en.wikipedia.org...

More recently, there was the story of the firefighter on CNN.
He had been in an accident where a building collapsed on him. His children were 2 and 3 years old. The last 10 years he has been in a coma, with the doctors saying he was in a Persistant Vegetative State, and would never recover. One of his doctors asked his wife to try a new drug that has come onto the market recently. She gave her ok, and three days later her doctor walked in on a miracle. The dr walked into the room to see the firefighter sitting up in bed having a perfectly lucid, intelligent conversation with his wife and children. He was confused about his children, because he didn't realize that 10 years had passed. He sat up talking for 18 hours before falling asleep. He never woke up with that level of consciousness again, but there have been definate signs of improvement.

Wow, that firefighter story made my mouth drop.. Can you provide any sources of this firefighter? I would love to read up on his story. I wonder if he had any sort of lucid dreaming while in his coma state and what he talked about with his wife and kids. The brain is a very amazing organ that we know so little about.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
The mind truly is fascinating. I've been trying to follow things going on with research into brain function for years.

Has everyone here heard the stories of Phineas Gage and more recently the firefighter that has been in a coma for 10 years? Talk about incredible. I'm sorry that I can't remember all the details about the firefighter, but things were a little hectic with all the major medical emergencies going on around me at the time it happened.

Phineas Gage:
On September 13, 1848, Phineas Gage was working outside the small town of Cavendish, Vermont on the construction of a railroad track where he was employed as a foreman. One of his duties was to set explosive charges in holes drilled into large pieces of rock so they could be broken up and removed. This involved filling the hole with gunpowder, adding a fuse, and then packing in sand with the aid of a large tamping iron. Gage was momentarily distracted and forgot to pour the sand into one hole. Thus, when he went to tamp the sand down, the tamping iron sparked against the rock and ignited the gunpowder, causing the iron to be blown through Gage's head with such force that it landed almost thirty meters behind him.
Life cast and skull of Phineas Gage
Life cast and skull of Phineas Gage

The three foot (1 m) long tamping iron with a diameter of 1.25 inches (3.2 cm) weighing thirteen and a half pounds (6.12 kg) entered his skull below his left cheek bone and exited after passing through the anterior frontal cortex and white matter. Whether the lesion involved both frontal lobes, or was limited only to the left side, remains a matter of controversy. Remarkably, after such a dramatic accident, Gage regained consciousness within a few minutes, was able to speak, and survived a 45-minute ride back to his boarding house sitting in a cart.
en.wikipedia.org...

More recently, there was the story of the firefighter on CNN.
He had been in an accident where a building collapsed on him. His children were 2 and 3 years old. The last 10 years he has been in a coma, with the doctors saying he was in a Persistant Vegetative State, and would never recover. One of his doctors asked his wife to try a new drug that has come onto the market recently. She gave her ok, and three days later her doctor walked in on a miracle. The dr walked into the room to see the firefighter sitting up in bed having a perfectly lucid, intelligent conversation with his wife and children. He was confused about his children, because he didn't realize that 10 years had passed. He sat up talking for 18 hours before falling asleep. He never woke up with that level of consciousness again, but there have been definate signs of improvement.

Nice Material Zaphod, these are truly amazing stories. It makes you wonder how exactly the human mind works with extreme cases such as this.

I caught it on tv when it happened, and was too busy with many family crisis' at the time to look it up further. When I have time I'll sit down and see what I can dig up on it.

To add on more thoughts of my previous post.

I believe there can be manipulative mind control AGAINST a persons will, with that person not knowing anything of it. There are some interesting research topics you can do on mind control, including the MK ULTRA project conducted by the CIA. My fear is, when there could be insidious misusage of neurochips that replace the Hippocampus in the brain for Alzheimer's patients . The Hippocampus is an area in the brain that stores factual information. These neurochips could in place false memories, and false ideas that are not your own. I mean look at the robo rats that are controlled by computers that preforms task for a quick euphoric feeling. I believe we could be next.

What was the MK Ultra?

Project MKULTRA (also known as MK-ULTRA) was the code name for a CIA mind-control research program lasting from the 1950s through the late 1960s, and is considered by some to be an acronym of "Manufacturing Killers Utilizing Lethal Tradecraft Requiring Assassinations . It was first brought to wide public attention by the U.S. Congress (in the form of the Church Committee) and a presidential commission (known as the Rockefeller Commission) (see Revelation below) and also to the U.S. Senate.

The Church committee wrote:

"The Deputy Director of the CIA revealed that over 30 universities and institutions were involved in an 'extensive testing and experimentation' program which included covert drug tests on unwitting citizens 'at all social levels, high and low, native Americans and foreign.' Several of these tests involved the administration of '___' to 'unwitting subjects in social situations.' At least one death, that of Dr. Olson, resulted from these activities. The Agency itself acknowledged that these tests made little scientific sense. The agents doing the monitoring were not qualified scientific observers."

The experiments

Central Intelligence Agency documents suggest that the agency considered and explored uses of radiation for the purpose of mind control as part of MKULTRA. Other early efforts focused on '___', which appears to have formed the majority of research as time went on. Experiments included dosing CIA employees, military personnel, other government agents, prostitutes, mental patients, and members of the general public with '___' to study their reactions, usually without the subject's knowledge.

The experiments often took a sadistic turn. Gottlieb was known to torture victims by locking them in sensory deprivation chambers while dosed on '___', or to make recordings of psychiatric patients' therapy sessions, and then play a tape loop of the patient's most self-degrading statement over and over through headphones after the patient had been restrained in a straitjacket and dosed with '___'. Gottlieb himself took '___' frequently, locking himself in his office and taking copious notes.

The revelations about the CIA and the Army prompted a number of subjects or their survivors to file lawsuits against the federal government for conducting illegal experiments. Although the government aggressively, and sometimes successfully, sought to avoid legal liability, several plaintiffs did receive compensation through court order, out-of-court settlement, or acts of Congress. Frank Olson's family received $750,000 by a special act of Congress, and both President Ford and CIA director William Colby met with Olson's family to publicly apologize.

en.wikipedia.org...

I for one have nothing against the CIA, but I posted this because it relates to our topic dicussion. I thought the research conducted by the CIA on mind control was MIND BLOWING to say the least and very, very interesting.

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MKULTRA sounds like what I said earlier about how people's minds can be altered, and they can forget what they have done. This would be the perfect cover up for an assassination plot, especially if it was designed within the Government itself!

I meant to add this source earlier about mind control in my introductory paragraph.
www.rickross.com...

Here are a few questions that I have been pondering.

Mind Control

• What is mind control
  
• Is it possible to manipulate a person's mind without their consent
  
• What are different methods of mind control
  
• What is brain washing
  
• Is there a difference in brain washing and mind control
  

I have been wondering about the movie The Wizard of Oz, I heard theories that this movie involves brain washing and hidden messages, so I would like your opinions on this subject.

Wizard of Oz

• Does this movie contain any form of brain washing in it, If so how
  
• What is the symbolism that each character represents
  
• What is the purpose of this movie
  
• Did you enjoy this movie personally
  
• Feel free to add anything else that you would like to comment on
  
  Liquid Out...
  
  
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