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posted on Nov, 25 2005 @ 10:23 PM
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As an inexperienced member of Above Top Secret, and one more intrested in reading the discussions than in joining the frey (Masonry being well definded already), I must admit to a bit of confusion.

I accept the admonition of the adminisrater, but am a bit confused on a few points.

1) Where is the line between rebutting a false allegation about Freemasonry and recruiting? (I'd like to be able to rebut without getting gigged)

2) Why the sudden change in policy? Or is it just an abrupt one. Having looked back on almost all of the pages listed, very few threads, if any, have been locked. Even those that could be easily construed as being against the current policy.

3) Could one tread be left for us to congratulate a member of ATS who has made the decision to become a mason? Since this is likely the only avalable forum where members know each other by thier chosen (ATS) screen names.

3B?) Would a second tread for the masonic members of this board be left for discussions that are not spacificly consperiacy related? For the same reasons as #3? Are 2 treads too much to ask?

4) How are and why are some members banned? Is it a temporary or permantn situation? Yes, I have read the terms and conditions, but this is still unclear.

5) Is it my imagination, or my faulty memory, but does it seem that the active treads seem to be getting fewer since the administrators admonition?




posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 12:31 AM
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I don't think I have to read any further than the first question.

If you have not read the terms and conditions and have read this:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
and still don't understand how to post on a simple board without getting into trouble with the law, how do you walk around town withought going to jail every day of your confused life?



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 12:33 AM
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By the way, as far as the posts being fewer, I don't know how it is in Norht (sic) Carolina, but in Alabama, we prefer quality over quantity.



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 08:51 AM
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MS it has less to do with "what you Know" than with "who you ****".

Also MS there is a Crusade going on here, It Matters not If you are Muslim, Arian
or Cathar you are an Infidel and will be targeted for destruction, in the true spirit of the crusades and the inquisition.

TC , I as a practicing Pagan and a Follower of Odinist practices take exception
to you a Fundamentalist Xian using an Image of one of MY Gods as an Avitar.
It to me displays your complete disrespect for other beliefs than yourown.



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 10:59 AM
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Stalkingwolf, it would appear that you are correct.

Administrator Crowne, you are correct in your possition that quality is preferable to quanity. But for any discussion there for there to be at least two sides presented. When there is someone subjecting contraints on one side of the descussion only, how is it possable to have a free exchange of ideas? I fail to see any chance of this policy leadng to the immprovement of the "QUALITY" of the discussion.



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by stalkingwolf
MS it has less to do with "what you Know" than with "who you ****".

Also MS there is a Crusade going on here, It Matters not If you are Muslim, Arian
or Cathar you are an Infidel and will be targeted for destruction, in the true spirit of the crusades and the inquisition.

TC , I as a practicing Pagan and a Follower of Odinist practices take exception
to you a Fundamentalist Xian using an Image of one of MY Gods as an Avitar.
It to me displays your complete disrespect for other beliefs than yourown.


Who said christianity wasn't paganism?
Constantine endorses 'Christianity'

Constantine's reign as emperor (306-337) dramatically changed the direction Christianity would take. Under his rule, Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire, and he was baptized (albeit on his deathbed).

But what was the nature of the Christianity he endorsed?
www.ucgstp.org...


Protestants Admit Christianity's Pagan Roots
"The Church did everything it could to stamp out such 'pagan' rites, but had to capitualet and allow the rites to continue with only the name of the local diety changed to some Christian saint's name." -Religious Tradition and Myth. Dr. Edwin Goodenough, Professor of Religion, Harvard University. p. 56, 57

"In short, sun worship, symbolically speaking, lies at the very heart of the great festivals which the Christian Church celebrates today, and these relics of heathen religion have, through the medium of their sacred rites, curiously enough blended with practices and beliefs utterly antagonistic to the spirit which prompted them." -Sun Lore of All Ages, Olcott, p. 248
www.leavingbabylon.com...

Easter and Yuletide (Christmas)
First Written: 9 April 2004
Last Updated: 9 April 2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Introduction
Christianity truly disgusts me for the reasons that I explained (and substantiated with evidence) in my various religion soapboxes. I believe that Christianity is immoral, and I want no part in it.

However, I enjoy celebrating Easter and Christmas, so that leaves me in a quandary. Or does it?! Actually, as it so happens, there is no quandary at all because Easter and Christmas are originally pagan festivals, despite what the fanatical christians would have you believe! Some Christians would happily burn or rewrite the history books if they could, but fortunately there is still plenty of evidence in existence to demonstrate the pagan roots of these 2 festivals, despite Christian attempts to obfuscate.

So, I can quite happily and without contradiction celebrate Easter and Christmas while maintaining my detest of Christianity. I can celebrate them in a non-christian manner, and remember that christians bastardized (not created) these festivals from paganism. spl.haxial.net...



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Student

1) Where is the line between rebutting a false allegation about Freemasonry and recruiting? (I'd like to be able to rebut without getting gigged)


There is a major difference. Read through the threads here and you can see many rebuttals. I would have thought that it's pretty obvious what recruiting entails. Needless to say, it has no place here on ATS.


2) Why the sudden change in policy? Or is it just an abrupt one. Having looked back on almost all of the pages listed, very few threads, if any, have been locked. Even those that could be easily construed as being against the current policy.


There hasn't been a major shift in policy. TC has always been a miserable old git. It's the water down there in Alabamy.


3) Could one tread be left for us to congratulate a member of ATS who has made the decision to become a mason? Since this is likely the only avalable forum where members know each other by thier chosen (ATS) screen names.


You have a U2U function for this if required. Although, it might be useful to know who is who (and I discussed this with TC), you're gonna have to do what the rest of us do and read the forum.



3B?) Would a second tread for the masonic members of this board be left for discussions that are not spacificly consperiacy related? For the same reasons as #3? Are 2 treads too much to ask?


Why? This is a conspiracy forum. Not a masonic forum.


4) How are and why are some members banned? Is it a temporary or permantn situation? Yes, I have read the terms and conditions, but this is still unclear.


My advice to you is not to worry about other members getting banned. Watch your own back and stick to the rules. I've managed to do this for 3 years. Sure, I've had a few "warns" but as you can see, I'm still here.


5) Is it my imagination, or my faulty memory, but does it seem that the active treads seem to be getting fewer since the administrators admonition?


Yup, it's your imagination. The Secret Societies forum is no less quieter or busier than usual. It does crank up a bit more when a few trolls are about, but isn't that part of the fun? But why stick to this forum? ATS has masses of interesting info spread over all of it's forums. Get about and see the rest of what's on offer.

[edit on 26-11-2005 by Leveller]



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 02:35 PM
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My advice to you is not to worry about other members getting banned. Watch your own back and stick to the rules. I've managed to do this for 3 years. Sure, I've had a few "warns" but as you can see, I'm still here.


Well, I would say that is the point of the question, ? why should a perfectly genuine questioner have to watch his back ?

This would imply someone is about to stab him in it.

You have to accept not every poster has been here for 30 years, and show some lenience toward a newbie.



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by billmcelligott

Well, I would say that is the point of the question, ? why should a perfectly genuine questioner have to watch his back ?

This would imply someone is about to stab him in it.

You have to accept not every poster has been here for 30 years, and show some lenience toward a newbie.



Yes Bill. That was the point of my comment. There are plenty of anti-masons on this board who are out to stab someone in the back. They also use tactics that are designed to rile others and my comment was made to advise this guy not to rise to them.
Even being a genuine questioner does not give a guarantee that you won't escape the attention of some of the trolls here.



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 06:02 PM
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I take your point , but , well he will have to answer this himself, he wanted answers to reasonable questions.

He was reffered back to a post which specifically mentions Masonic backslapping. OK I agree this should not be a Masonic forum we have plenty of those and they are doing just fine thanks.

How can you have a congregated section of Masons with one post.

Agreed that this is a conspiracy forum, but how do you answer a conspiracy with out defending yourself. It is an enigma.

TC may well be a miserable old git, but he also has to be reasonable and fair. I would be very appreciative if the staff recognised that if someone starts a post with



As an inexperienced member of Above Top Secret, and one more intrested in reading the discussions than in joining the frey

They would be given some advise and guidance, I dont care if the advice and guidance comes from an old git, but that should have been the correct answer.

If as on many other conspiracy boards and I will be happy to post them all up if required. Freemasons are banned full stop.

That leaves just the conspiracy pundits to sit and contemplate each others belly buttons. If that is what ATS want then fine just say so.



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 07:15 PM
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As far as Trolls are concerned, they make for lively discussions, but from what I have read their knives seem avoidable.

TC may be "a miserable old git", not knowing him I can't say one way or the other. (although I did not find his advice particularly helpful) In this I will bow Levellar's superior knowledge.

I have been able find answers to most of my questions. Mostly by following Levellar's advise, and suggestions.

This particular forum has been one of the most interesting and contentious.

I too understand that is a CONSPIRACY forum. But with 43 pages of threads I wonder if one thread for the use of masons is too many?


I can't say that I have read every post on every thread, but since finding this forum I've tried to read a goodly sampeling, and intend to read more.

As for recruting, Free Masons have not tolerated recruiting since it went public, in my jurisdiction it is still a masonic offence. Reacently some other juridictions have changed that policy of late though. The point in question is not where I draw the line but reather where TC draws the line between rebuttal and recruting. And I emphatically agree that this forum should NEVER be a place for recruiting.

I do wish to say that as a newbie, when I have posted I have been given good advice and been well received. Much better treated than many masons on this forum.

Just how much you can say in rebuting misinformation without TC's sanction remains to be seen.



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 09:34 PM
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Ok, after reading all of this, allow me to say to each and every one of you,
Thank you, we all refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view.

I'm sure I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it is hard to pronounce!

Regardless of these facts, it is very clear as to how a consiracy is to be discussed. If you are merely wishing to discuss the lovely merits of some secret society to which you belong, go to their secret handshake website.

If you want to discuss conspiracy theories, this is the place.

Surely, unless you hit your head on the bumper of the ice cream truck, this is not hard to comprehend!



[edit on 26-11-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

[edit on 26-11-2005 by Thomas Crowne]



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 09:41 PM
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TC....That is the sexiest Thor I have ever seen on your profile...and I'm heterosexual



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 09:48 PM
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TC I would think this tread has more than run its course. I have been able to find answers to all but on of my original questions. Which will only be answered by time.

If you would be kind enough to direct me to a thread where I can find out the diffrences between moderator, super mpderater and administrator. As well as to their duties and responsiblities I would be appreciative.

Beyond that please close this tread.



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 10:03 PM
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Really, all joking aside, it is obvious that you will not get it. The reason isn't that you aren't capable, it is because you do not want to get it.

There are many examples as to how to argue SS conspiracy theories, all you have to do is read them. You'll probably find that your particular topic, Masonry, has been discussed ad nauseum. You can also clearly see what is not to occur at this CONSPIRACY site, if you read the tacked note at the top of this SS forum, as I suggested to you.

As far as the duties and responsibilities of the staff, feel free to u2u an admin or owner about the duties and responsibilities of the pro-bono staff who work many hours to see to it that this board is aplace that the world can come to in order to discuss CONSPIRACY theories.

One of the duties, by the way, is to decide if and when to close threads. I need no help in that decision. Thank you kindly, though.



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 10:12 PM
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Magnito Student, thanks for clarifying what Christianity ISN'T.

What you so boldly admit to being' truly digusted' by is in fact the' abomination' that pagans and other Anti-Christian "faiths" created to discredit Christianity.

Christianity has been around since long before Nimrod and all other "faiths" that have challanged God since Nimrods failed attempt.

Christ is/was The Word that created all things as the logos/spokesman of His/our Father, God.

What I find immoral, is masons, claiming to be "Christians", yet refusing to 'enlighten' people to the truth of Christianity with their special knowledge despite repeatedly being asked and invited to.



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by suzy ryan
Christianity has been around since long before Nimrod


suzy...now you've told me something. I sure thought that Nimrod was the son of Cush, the son of Ham, the son of Noah and that Noah was around LONG before the Christ, hence LONG before Christianity.

ol' Nimrod was a late-comer, eh? Interesting indeed.



Christ is/was The Word that created all things as the logos/spokesman of His/our Father, God.


For Christians, certainly. But what might any of this have to do with the topic at hand?



What I find immoral, is masons, claiming to be "Christians", yet refusing to 'enlighten' people to the truth of Christianity


Why would/should we? We're a FRATERNITY...NOT a RELIGION, further we don't dabble in politics or religion in Lodge...keeps the whole "Brotherhood" idea flowing, ya know? Why do you think Masons should do this?



with their special knowledge


Which special knowledge? Friendship, Morality, Brotherly Love? Whatever are you talking about?


despite repeatedly being asked and invited to.


When and where are we/they "repeatedly...asked and invited to?" HERE? WHERE?

You have some really strange hang-ups about Masonry suzy...you jumped on board here claiming that the Masons had ritually abused you (and many others) NOW you want us to tell everyone about Christianity?

Better change those meds



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 10:36 PM
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Gee, come on, at this point, it is totally ok that the thread simply falls to the bottom of the pool with the leaves and dirt and other trash; it doesn't have to take some scenic route down alternate paths of discussion, does it?
Please.



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 10:45 PM
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TC, Please rest assured, I do get it. I intend to follow it to the letter. Thank you for all of the efforts by all of the people who keep this site up and running.

Suzy, There is no "special Knowedge" in free masonry with respect to Christianity. As has been repeatedly stated free masonry only requires a belief in "A" supreme being, not any one spacific supreme being. Nor are we allowed to discuss relgious beliefs in lodge.

As a Christian I have a duty to spread the words of Christ, as a Mason the one place I can not do so is in Lodge. In over 29 years of doing masonic reasurch I have found no indication of "special knowledge" on the teachings of Christ. The philosophies & moralas tought in the lodge run parallel to many faiths, but conflict with none that I'm awair of. This insistance of the freedom of relious belief is one of the cornerstones of Free Masonry, and one of the main points we have been attacked by fundamentalist groups.



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 10:47 PM
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Last time I frquented this forum , I heard the same complaint. That Freemasons were taking over.

The I pointed out that out of the 50 threads shown on the intro screne only 4 had been started by Freemasons. I dont know who the Freemasons are here now but maybe someone would like to count how many. I bet its not more.

So
5) Is it my imagination, or my faulty memory, but does it seem that the active treads seem to be getting fewer since the administrators admonition?

There certainly is from say a year ago I would say.

I would also like to conclude , and I promise this is my last post on the subject. That everyone has learned from this , what seemed innocuous thread.




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