I think they need TRY to get their land back(Taiwan) before trying anyone else.

[edit on 26-11-2005 by SpittinCobra]

my initial impression, the Central Planing Committee, used the opportunity of an outgoing General to announce that 'their' right-wing is more right-wing than the US counterpart neo-cons & PNAC..


Chinas' far-right extremists, envision developing & distributing a
'Caucasian-Contagion'
which would leave only the remaining African-Americans & Latino-Americans & Native-Americans as the major goups to contend with.
I suspect their tactic is that the 'C-C' bug is meant to be unleashed
at contamination sites including public transportation systems, malls,
church & synagog gatherings...but also in unsuspected and innocent products which are shipped to the US consumer. Here we might include
the diabolical contaminate being on coated-nails and other construction/home improvement products....perhaps even in fireworks destined for our 4th of July mega shows in cities all across the Nation.
(that next breath inhaled may be more than the smell of gunpowder & sulphur that we are familiar with)

A slow and insidious poisioning of the population with the 'C-C' Bug, and then the Coup-de-Gras on Independence Day, and a 2d wave 'clean-up' on the following ThanksGiving Day, with all those seemingly healthy turkeys.


Perhaps the meme 'Buy American' is more than a patriotic slogan...eh

And the Americans are the fattest and lazyiest of the lot (no offence, but Americans do have the worlds highest levels of obesity and other "rich" dieseases)

This just shows your ignorance of our country and its people. You are overlooking the truly lazy people, like the socialist French and their 30 hour work weeks. Yes, we may have the most obese population in the world. That is just a testiment to our over-indulgence, not our work ethic. The American people are some of the hardest working and proud people in the world. Just because we don't sit locked in a room on a dirt floor sewing soccer balls for 6 cents an hour doesn't make us lazy.

As for the rest of your post, you almost made my argument for me. You see, all these things that us Americans have and are spoiled with- those are the things, that when faced with losing them, that we will rise up off our easy-chairs, put down our bag of Doritos and shut off the NFL game to kick some Communist butt. When push comes to shove and we don't have to worry about conducting a politically correct war (as in Iraq) then we will crush any enemy.

All the things that we have and that we do, which many other nations resent us for, are the very things that we would all fight and die for to keep if faced with losing them. This sleeping giant would be awoken like never before, trust me.

I would think we are more useful to them as a market.....if they kill us off, who will buy all of the junk they make??

I also wonder about the validity of the source, and the speech itself......is it authentic and even if it is, does this guy have any authority to make policy??

originally posted by soficrow
It is most interesting to me that this information is now being covered in the West from a fear-mongering angle - which ignores the fact that Hoatian's speech is motivating millions of Chinese to renounce the CCP.

I also think this could well be some fear mongering......but as St.Udio mentions, it would be all too easy for them to slip a little something into the millions of imports that come from China every day. How eash would it be to ship out a little bird flu? And how hard would it be for us to detect?

Another bothersome thought---Doesn't PNAC advocate pre-emptive strikes for those that present substantial threats to the US?? Will they believe this guy is legit, or try to convince us that he is a real threat?? If he is no longer in a position to influence the Chinese gov., why trot out this speech at this point in time??

Another thing....even with their huge population numbers, are the Chinese really so over-crowded? To the point that they would need to aquire more land?? ....Just this moring I heard it mentioned on CNN, that if all of the world's population were put in the state of Texas, they would be less densly packed than the people are in Manhattan right now!?? ( This point was made by a conservative contesting global warming claims, and no one said he was wrong.)

[edit on 26-11-2005 by frayed1]

Originally posted by Rasputin13
That is just a testiment to our over-indulgence, not our work ethic. The American people are some of the hardest working and proud people in the world.

In no other country does the average worker work longer hours than Americans do. If one compares efficiency ( hours worked while at work ) their among the top performers aswell....

Thinking of Americans as lazy is not a mistake any country can afford to make even once so you have every right to be angry..... No reason to let people get away with such statements when the facts are so clear! Browse for links or just call me when it happens again .

Stellar

Originally posted by Rasputin13

And the Americans are the fattest and lazyiest of the lot (no offence, but Americans do have the worlds highest levels of obesity and other "rich" dieseases)

Yes, we may have the most obese population in the world. That is just a testiment to our over-indulgence, not our work ethic. The American people are some of the hardest working and proud people in the world.

When push comes to shove and we don't have to worry about conducting a politically correct war (as in Iraq) then we will crush any enemy.
This sleeping giant would be awoken like never before, trust me.

I find myself in agreement with Ras on this......The world is so eager to call us cruel, and evil (we torture prisoners and kill innocent civilians, etc) .....then they turn right around and claim we're all soft, lazy....too chicken to put up a fight. Can't they make up their minds??

Perhaps we should 'embrace' or at least admit our 'dark side' to some extent. After all, we are, as a population, desendents of people who could not get along with the rest of the people in their countries of origin.

Many of our forefathers were pulled out of prisons, or forced out of their homelands by hardships and then were tough enough to live through horrible conditions on sea crossings that killed cattle and people of weaker constitutions. When we got here, we pushed our way into an unforgiving wilderness, and almost obliterated (unjustly I admit) a tough, brave native population!

We are mean, we kill more of each other than our enemies do!! We try to play nice, at least in front of company...(ie the rest of the world), but get our backs againt the wall.....and look out.

PS...that extra weight may come in handy, don't expect to starve us to death toooo quickly!

all i can do is sit back and watch right now. i cant really think of much i can do then watch for their or our next move. but my thoughts right now. John Titor

Originally posted by stumason

As long as the opposition is goat herders or has a poorly trained and equipped army.

Put the US Army up against real opposition, like they haven't seen in 60 years and we shall see how well they fair.

Those Afghanistan "Goat herders" handed the Soviets their butts with alittle help from the US, so dont under estimate them.

Also no real oppostion in 60 years? Iraq during the Gulf war was the fourth largest army in the world. Only China, Russia and the US had a larger one. They had some of the best Russian and Chinese tech you could buy at the time (including extensive anti-aircraft defences,fiber optic networks etc.. etc..) and were actually battle tested unlike most countries around the world. It ended up as one of the most lopsided battles in history. To even suggest Iraq pre Gulf war was some type of military made up of "Goat herders" is just naive

Convential armies tend to get slaughtered when fighting the US

I just went back and re-read the first page and realized I'd missed WyrdeOne's post. He says it best, as usual:

WyrdeOne Said: On the other hand, terrifying Americans is still quite profitable for the defense industry that props this country up and keeps the reanimated corpse shambling dutifully, if not efficiently, along the path to Hell. Given the fact that the Chinese own a substantial portion of this country, and have a vested interest in maintaining its profitability via a continuation of the military-industrial complex, it makes perfect sense for China to mime the boogeyman.

Even if they could take a foothold and retain it for more than five minutes, they would be in much the same position as we now find ourselves in Iraq. Stretched thin, fighting a war against an invisible, highly-motivated, well-funded militia, and doing so without the support of the citizens at home. The Chinese would have no choice but to employ scorched earth tactics or abandon the whole campaign. Neither would serve their needs.

This is what I was trying to say, but WO phrased it more eloquently. The biggest problem with America, from an invader's perspective, is the armed populace, which will wreck supply lines and make your stay there unbearable.

Chinawhite: just because Falun Gong seems to be behind the Epoch Times' site, I don't see why that makes it less credible. FG doesn't seem like a cult in the way the Moonies or J-Dubs or Koreshians are cults. They seem to be a target of government crackdowns in China. Why does that make people doubt their story? Why is Falun Gong evil that the CCP persecutes them so?

The question here is if China actually has bio weapons that could reach and effect the US. Frankly, I think some kind of suicide bio-scenario where say they have seven or eight people release an engineered virus in seven or eight major airports a-la Twelve Monkeys or something like that --but then the danger with viral weapons is the chance that the infection will reach your country or allies. There's been fictional accounts about race-hating bioweapons that could kill only one (or preserve) only one race. Futureland by Walter Mosley is a recent novel with this theme. I don't see why a virus like this might not be created someday. But what are the actual genetic differences between the Chinese and Caucasians? Could they make a weaponized agent that selectively killed races?

Also, the guy's speech mentions that the Nazis had made a blunder by taking on the whole world, but he then intimates that China is being smarter by conquering one nation at a time. I am guessing he means the US goes down first via economic means. I know the free-trade people will say our current policy of having all our goods manufactured by rural Chinese slaves is the best plan, but I tend to disagree. Weakening an enemy financially is the first step on the economic battlefield of the late 20th and early 21st century.

I think doves in the USA decided to "melt" China with Americanism and American trade dollars. They thought that capitalism would infect the communist party like it did with the Soviets, but instead, the party bosses at the top of China appear to be building their own yeltsin-style criminal organization while retaining the legitimacy of the CCP over the citizens.

Where is the Chinese version of Lech Walesa? Where is the non-violent labor movement as the Chinese Party loses power? What I'm saying is that the Russians knew what was happening when Glastnost came through and they decided to go quietly. I think the Chinese Party bosses are much more determined to stay and fight than to leave their offices and admit defeat. I can't see China becoming a region of independent territories when the party collapses, as the Soviet states did. I think the CCP may decide to go all-out, realizing that the very survival of global communism would be assured by nuclear war. That's my point: Nuke war may doom China, but it preserves the Chinese Communist Party for perpetuity.

...but then, WO commented on the final point also:

WyrdeOne Said: In any case, there's no reason to be afraid..of anything. Death is the most pleasurable experience of your life, it makes heroin look like bitter skittles. Dying is really not bad at all, and irrational fear of it only hampers one's ability to stay alive. It's totally self-defeating. Not to mention the fact that most people live what can only loosely be called a life, and would hardly notice the loss of said life, if not for the absence of television and masturbation in the afterlife.

Brilliant stuff. I agree on all counts.




[edit on 26-11-2005 by smallpeeps]

Block all foreign investments in a matter of a few days (just as the Nazis did near the beginning of the last world war), overtake all foreign fabrics, mines, telecom and energy facilities, sign a pact of non-agression with Russia (also, just as the Nazis did before WW2 and invade whatever they want in Eurasia and southeast asia (including taiwan, of course!) with their ground and air forces. The constant threat of nuclear war, neverending Iraq fiasco, demoralization of army troops, mismanagement of Defense budget, and Oil crisis would greatly inhibit the US from being able to launch a massive attack on China, while the US would lack major military cooperation at least from India, Russia, N and S Korea and Vietnam. America and the EU would lose their imminent grip over Eurasia's and Afghanistan's rich natural resources, including vast Oil pipelines (which would be shared now between China and Russia), and that would just be the beginning of the end for the Western world.

The fall of the belligerant US and the self-absorbed, supremacist EU... I'm eager to see that coming once and for all!

I knew it!

I always thought China was the country we should all be watching out for, they are a sneaky bunch and can't be trusted. The cpc anyway, and they've ruled for decades.

People talk about the end of the world in 2012 because of the usa, britain, and the middle east banging heads, but I always thought China was somehow going to take center stage, it was just a matter of when and why.

It was a bad idea to do military business with these guys, they would use those weapons for nothing but bad things. Who do they need to protect themselves against? THey've made their own citizenry suffer under communist rule, what makes us think they would treat us any different??

This is a guise, they dont want the chinese to out and colonize the world, they want to go out as the communist part and take over land and rule just like the british monarchy's and french kings used to do.

Another freaking Hitler, great, hopefully the world leaders will have enough balls to get together and stop this before millions of people die.

Delete Please



[edit on 26-11-2005 by C0le]

Mail it to this guy. Americans react decisively against agression. If you want to survive as a nation state, you do not provoke them. History makes that clear. It would be very difficult to selectively target Americans, due to genetic diversity, thanks to immigration. And if an attack were made, and was 100% successful, there are automated systems in place that would reduce the attacking nation to smouldering compost.

Trade is preferable to warfare.

No race is inferior. All races have unique gifts neccesary to the human future. Let us be clear that China and the Chinese People are not enemies, but of course there are crackpots in every Nation including China. Let us stengthen relations with reasonable leaders and hope this guy spends more time down at the Chinese VFW drinking.

Besides a cult website, is there any evidence this speech actually occurred?

Hello?

I've gone back and read much of the speech. I don't deny that, if the man really said these things, that we should at least be concerned.

But when do you ever hear of a military leader at that level (Rumsfelds) intermix what can only be interpreted as his own fears and indecisions into this type of speech? He does not sound overly confident. Words like these tell me he's not sure of his convictions:

From a humanitarian perspective, we should issue a warning to the American people and persuade them to leave America and leave the land they have lived in to the Chinese people. Or at least they should leave half of the United States to be China’s colony, because America was first discovered by the Chinese.

Emphasis mine

Ok, America, give us your land and get out. No? Well, then, how about half? After all, we discovered America in the first place!

Huh? Attila the Hun, he ain't!

There are many of these lapses of confidence in this speech. He is even unsure if his own population will follow him. And what kind of weirdness is this?

After the June 4 riot was suppressed, we have been thinking about how to prevent China from peaceful evolution and how to maintain the Communist Party’s leadership. We thought it over and over but did not come up with any good ideas. If we do not have good ideas, China will inevitably change peacefully, and we will all become criminals in history. After some deep pondering, we finally come to this conclusion: Only by turning our developed national strength into the force of a fist striking outward—only by leading people to go out —can we win forever the Chinese people’s support and love for the Communist Party.

He's concerned about looking like a criminal? He's afraid of peaceful evolution? He wants people to love him and his Party?

Instead of worrying about troop deployment and fighting in trenches, I think we should look hard and long at this guy's fragile ego. And then come up with a dozen ways to screw with his mind. He'll self-destruct.

I guess all this topic does is show how frightened people in the US are over China.
In my opinion it is a totally unwarranted, illogical fear.

China doesn't need military acts to become a supreme power. It will become the major player in a few decades time through industry. Money talks - when you have it, you don't need to go to war with another super-power. The Cold War proved that. Time is also a key factor. Whereas Western nations tend to act quickly, China can sit back just as it always has done and let things run their course. And really, does China need to undertake military options when Western governments are doing the job of ripping their societies apart far more efficiently than Bejing could ever do?

As for expansionism? China doesn't need to expand either. It already has the buffer zones of North Korea and Tibet right on it's borders.

It seems to me that if you want to scare an American into illogical fear and hatred, you only have to say the word "China".
Still, we all need our "bogeymen" don't we?

I seriously doubt the veracity of the article for these reasons (some already pointed out):

Genetic diversity - There are millions of half-caucasians in the US.

Secrecy - Who would reveal their game plan?

Rednecks - Honestly, for all those living outside the US, you have NO IDEA how many hicks live here. I am in California (considered one of the least hick states) and there are LOADS. They will kick the hell out of anyone who threatens their truck, let alone their country, and they are armed to the teeth (usually with high-caliber, scoped rifles).

If this article is true and their Minister of Defense said all of those things, then I have only one question.
How in the hell is China going to stop the hundreds if not thousands of nukes coming it’s way?
Unless his “superior race” can withstand nuclear weapons, his plan is suicide.

Personally, I think that if China (or anyone else, for that matter) invaded, the A.D.D. gamers who can't sign on to play their MMORPG's would make up an easy 100,000 person resistance... what else would we have to do with our time?

All joking aside, all they would be doing is pissing gas on an already burning ember... Yes, as far as the rest of the world is concerned, we americans ARE a lazy bunch and seem too preoccupied with our lush lifestyles... but if you beat a docile dog, it's primitive side will show and he will bite you. If you threaten to take away a person's livelyhood, and demonstrate that you WILL, they WILL defend that.

Remember that we do have the Boyscouts, which trains ALOT of children survival. The Boyscouts also teach people how to use guns, bows, and even more primitive forms of hunting, which are readily adapted to wartime survival. Yeah, that "Suit" may look and act like he couldn't do anything to help himself without a laptop and his blackberry, but he probably has been through Boyscouts and could, if needed, protect his family and friends very easily.

Another thing we Americans have is our (as much as some or most don't like it) Militia's, Mobs, and "Gangsta's". Think they don't have any idea how to use a gun? Mmmhmm... Oh yeah, farmers, ranchers, and the like... I live in Wyoming, and even though we have a total state population less than the City population of Denver, over half of our population owns and know how to use our firearms. About 1/3 of our population hunt regularly. And about 3/4 of our poulation would readily stand on our front porches and gladly shoot ANY "Red" to come along and threaten an american. "That's MY home! That's MY plush lifestyle you're threatening!"

I know I can't speak on behalf of the rest of the country, but I can speak on behalf of my neck of the woods and plains... don't believe everything you see, even if what you see is on the street, because alot of America's civilians who would defend against an attack aren't really publicly akgnowleged. Alot of them are the "Freakies and Lowlifes", America's supposed embarrassments. We're the Stoners, the Non'Christians, the Militants... the troublemakers.

And lastly, speaking of troublemakers, I say it would be safe to assume that our prison population would gladly take arms and the chance to kill legally and be free again to defend our country rather than die by genocide in their concrete palaces.

Personally, I really do believe that America is underestimated, and I'll state again... if you beat a docile dog, he WILL show his primitive side and bite you in retaliation!