TERRORISM: Arab-Owned Liquor Stores Attacked in California

Ah, The Melting pot, we call America.
Someone needs to turn up the heat.
Some things in the pot, are not melting, and it smells like a cesspool.

Ah, The Melting pot, we call America.
Someone needs to turn up the heat.
Some things in the pot, are not melting, and it smells like a cesspool.

Way up.

People don't have to change their chemical structure, they just need to be able to exist next to each other without exploding. And they have to work together too, food with a lot of competing flavors is not tasty. We want to be a tasty food item people!

If you don't like the liquor store, don't shop there! If you don't like the NOI, don't attend their rallies! If you don't like muslims selling alcohol, write an editorial!

People come to America for oppurtunities they might not have elsewhere. This is, ideally (conceptually), a land where one can believe anything one pleases, and worship in whatever measure one decides. This is not an islamic nation, and it's not going to be run like one.

If you don't have the ability to respect the decisions of others, you don't belong in my America - the place we never were and still can be. Some people have different concepts of what sort of nation we should be, but I think the overwhelming majority share one central pillar: valueing highly the ideals of freedom, justice, and equality.

The values we talk about in this country are rarely expressed in our behaviors, but nonetheless they are worthwhile standards to promote. In the shared dream of America, you can think as you please, but you absolutely must respect the right of others to live their own lives and make their own decisions.

As I said..we don't always walk the walk, but conceptually we're a very advanced society.

The profane don't think the N.O.I. can be reconciled with "true Islam", because they are fanatics.

Whatever.

My point was that the NOI have almost nothing in common with Wahabbi Jihadists trying to impose Sharia law and bring about a new Caliphate, and it's disingenous to present this as if it was part of such a campaign. This is about people objecting to other people selling addictive intoxicants in socially depressed areas, not about imposing an Islamic theocracy in the US.

As for my opinion of it: close down one liquor store in a poor neighborhood, and another will open the next day. These tactics may be emotionally satisfying to the participants, but they will have no effect other than to bankrupt some immigrants and net the vigilantes some jail time (contributing to the unfortunate statistics about young black men that we all already know and hate to hear.)

The best way to limit he sale of alchohol and other drugs in poor areas is to make it unprofitable: IE get people to stop buying. Unfortunately that's not as easy as smashing up some poor bastard's store.

xmotex

I was referring more to some other's opinions in this thread.

And I do agree with at least some of the points you have brought up.






[edit on 27-11-2005 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by roro2030
Just because something is legal doesn't mean it should be done. I know full well Arabs/Koreans/Vietnemes wouldn't appreciate blacks overruning their neighborhoods /w liquor stores. these poor black areas are too depressed and opening one liquor store after another doesn't help. What's worst most of these places are eyesores. Black areas need a uplifting hand not another oppersor. These young men got sick and tired of the endless cycle of poverty gripping these neighborhoods and what's sad the police will try to make examples out of them instead of figuring out why they are so mad. Saint I just want you go to black area and then a white area. The reason why there are Muslim vs Muslims tension is because the Arab store owners are taking advantage of a situtation instead of following the Koran!!!!

Do you know how many churches are in a "black area"? The city should be full of saints if your logic pans out.

Originally posted by roro2030
of following the Koran!!!!

Where in the koran does it say its illegal to sell alcohol? Someone better tell iran, which makes large amounts of persian wine and exports it to whover's buying.

Where in the koran does it say its acceptable to attack a fellow muslim?

Hamburglar. The truth is black America is imploding on itself. I know these Yemeni/Korean/ Vietenemese store owners work real hard and they only receive grief & anguish for their problems. I can't deny that Blacks are responsible for the majority of what's going wrong /w their neighborhoods and there lives. Sometimes its easier just to kick some poor immigrant than to look at yourself in the mirror and fix your problems.

facts
nyc=9,000,000 people=800 liquor stores
oakland=750,000 peple=839 liquor stores

AMERICA is imploding on itself.

Not Black America, Not White America, Not Muslim America...etc..etc..

The use of those 2 word terms for Americans, is precisely WHY we are imploding.

They are self racist, and self divisive. Everyone ends up in a non-diverse bubble.
Everyone blames the other bubbles for all of their problems..
Pop your stupid bubbles.
Figure things out for yourselves, and stop blaming everyone else..


ok, I'm done..

Now one of the liquor store owners was kidnapped and his store set on fire. He was later found by police in the trunk of a car:

Originally posted by roro2030
Sometimes its easier just to kick some poor immigrant than to look at yourself in the mirror and fix your problems.

facts
nyc=9,000,000 people=800 liquor stores
oakland=750,000 peple=839 liquor stores

And sometimes it's easier to make up facts (or get them from very dubious sources) than it is to engage in honest discourse. Especially when that discourse tends to discount your point of view.

According to this article, there are only 359 liquor stores in the City of Oakland.

Final results are pending, but the City has already categorized 11 of its 359 stores as "ugly" and plans to use these finding as the basis for enforcement efforts.

www.marininstitute.org...

I’ve sent an e-mail to NYC’s liquor board to see if they’ll tell me how many liquor stores there are in NYC. But, it seems already that your “facts” are suspect at best, and that the ratio of stores to people is much better than you have tried to suggest.

What else ya got in your I-don’t-need-research-cause-I-heard-it-from-my-militant-friend grab bag?

I live in a quite affluent area of Manhattan in NYC and I can think of about 5 liquor stores within easy walking distance of my apartment just off the top of my head.

the most distressing posts on this thread is the continued lament of the poor African American male. I know that there is a problem here. I am tired of hearing the excuses. I have taught in urban schools for over a decade now, and I have seen black young men who have lived a hard life overcome and thrive. How? They refused to accept the labels, they refused to accept the media image, they refused to accept the easy way out. have they had to face unfair obstacles? Absolutely. Has it stopped them? Mostly, no it hasn't.

Why are there more black men in prison than in college? Because too many young black men don't finish high school. In my experience, far too many don't have strong and positive black male role models. If I could, I would offer major incentives for educated black men to become teachers.
It's far too easy to blame the system. Sorry, it doesn't wash. Irish coming to America in the last century were heavily discriminated against. So were Jews, Italians, Poles, Chinese...the list goes on an on and on. I myself am a first generation American - my family came from Portugal. In the time we came here, all of my generation are educated, have good jobs, and are assimilated in the 'melting pot' mentioned above. I haven't given up my culture, my heritage, or my language. We simply keep our traditions alive among our families.

African Americans should be proud of their history and not ashamed or angry about it. Think of the strength of character, the endurance, the fortitude that allowed captive African Americans to persevere. Today's black Americans are the inheritors of such strength.

Intolerance is always sad to see. I fear that we will see more of this before things get better. I pray that I am wrong....

I live in Oakland and someone close to me knows the people that destroyed the alcohol. It is not the Nation of Islam, it is a non recogized sect that goes simply by the Black Muslims. Though I do not condone what they did its always good to see that some attention has been brought on the fact that there are way too many liquar stores around the neighborhood. This happened not far from me. There should only be 4 liquar stores in the neighborhood, I ve counted 11 all within a 15 block radius.

The other thing is they have no real leadership the leader died 3 years ago and the more recent leader was murdered 3 weeks ago so we have a young 20 something guy running a group of loyalist. Half the group slit with the murder three weeks ago so ereally this was a personal move and has nothing to do with the group other than association and them wearing the clothing

also this has nothing to do with race, but they are being charged with terrorism,hate crimes, kidnapping, destroying private property, assualt and some other things, no one was hurt in these incidents also

Originally posted by magnondon
also this has nothing to do with race, but they are being charged with terrorism,hate crimes, kidnapping, destroying private property, assualt and some other things, no one was hurt in these incidents also

I beleive that the hate crime part isn't against race, but religion... and by the attackers own statements, it was (they were)

And good...
I hope the throw the book at them... personally I think they should triple the jail time for any violent crimes.
I have never understood how someone who grows pot, can go to jail for twice as long, as someone who destroys someones elses hard earned property. If they were selling alcohol to minors, they deserve to be closed. If they sell alcohol to adults, then more power to them... hope they opened up in an area with lots of alcoholics...

and regarding the muslim on muslim crime... not true... if the owners of the store claimed to be muslim, then they are fooling themselves. And if the group attacked them for that, they are bigger fools.

It appears that the supposed "Black Muslims" who committed this vandalism are also ignoramuses, not surprisingly.

Shop clerk; "They said ‘We're Muslims,’ and selling liquor to the community, that we ain't supposed to be doing that.”"

They are apparently unaware of the fact that some Arabs are Christian, and very likely the ones who sell alcohol are so. Like the ones down the road from my house.

Talk about ethnic stereotyping.

In Iraq the 'vandals' are doing worse things to the liquor store owners. There, they know they're Christians and the intimidation and assassination is just the point.

Based on my knowledge of the situation and news sources, the thugs who committed these acts are not muslim. I believe that this is just another racist act on the part of some blacks who resent other ethnic groups setting up shop in their neighborhoods and running successful businesses.

[edit on 2005/12/18 by GradyPhilpott]

again, i'd like to reiterate the fact that selling (or even drinking) alcohol, is NOT forbidden in Islam. So if the excuse was (and i dont believe it to be any kind of excuse), muslims shouldnt be selling alcohol, then they were wrong.
But then, they were wrong anyway. Who does this kind of stuff?....it boggles the mind to think that some people assume they have the right to do these things.