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UK Now Most Violent Developed Nation in the World

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posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 04:43 AM
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according to the bbc news the big rise in violent crime is in teenage crime the chavs mugging each other for mobile phones ,i pods ,psp, and other gadgets
americas violent crime would also rocket if there teenagers had the same standard of living as the uk and could afford them




posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 06:44 PM
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If it was just the chavs mugging other chavs I wouldn't be half so bothered, after all one good turd deserves another. Unfortunately they tend to inflict there rotten behaviour on everyone else as well.



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 07:27 PM
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I think were all missing the big picture here. Crime is a symptom of a unhealthy society. Whether its drug related or youth related or just plain random simply giving everyone a gun probably isn't going to solve Britains problems and just taking them away from us yanks isn't going to solve our problems. What we have to do is find the root causes of violence in our society. Here in the states drug related crime accounts for the bulk of all violent crime. In Britain its Yob culture. While simply shooting everyone and letting god sort them out could actually work its really not practical.



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 03:03 PM
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One thing about firearms is however beyond argument, namely that without them we would have had to tolerate oppresive British rule in the US for countless more years than we eventually did.

Having lived in both, I would take a "gun culture" over a "yob culture" any day of the week and twice on Tuesdays. Strangely the 2 seem to be mutually exclusive, go figure.



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 04:37 PM
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Quite correct Winchester. We americans are born of the firearm. Proud of it or not it is a fact. And I'm not so sure I'd disagree with you even though two days ago I was robbed at gun point. Most people killed in the US have a certain amount of responsiblity for putting themselves in a situation were they get killed.



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 09:16 PM
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I believe in escalating prison sentences i.e. the more times you have been to prison the higher your sentencing guidelines should be. This would make tough for career criminals and the like.
I also think prison should be a place where you can learn and get of drugs so that you don't have to go back on street.

But people always complain about how expensive prison is.
I agree. I think we take advantage of "economies of scale" by extending the Dartmoor prison into a national one where about 90% of them should. And I don't see any problem in putting prisoners in a "chicken shed raised on fence posts". All this concrete, stairwells, ect is a waist of time.
All we need is a huge prison with 3 fences. The middle fence would have landmines (or since they've been banned something as close to them as possible). That way all these people who chuck drugs over the boundary would have a hard time.

And as for work: there's plenty of tree planting to be done in Dartmoor and my opinion is that when prisoners aren’t learning, or sleeping they should be working to help pay for their own costs (and maybe compensate any family who have lost an income at home).

P.S How much do you reckon single mothers having more kids so that they use the kids benefits for themselves is to blame for all this? I have a solution to that as well: It’s called a social welfare card. That way everything parents spend their child’s welfare money on can be traced.



posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 03:48 PM
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Just read through this thread.

I must have had nothing better to do.

To sum it up

It's is a lot of septics telling us Brits how our country should be run.

Is this an American thing?

I have not seen any posts from Brits telling Americans how to run their country and live their lives.

Could it be that only Americans get off on doing that?

I can only speak for me and mine, but most Brits that I know, know very little, and care a whole lot less about American domestic policy and so do not have an opinion on it.

For the record I would say that the UKs gun laws make sense to the British.

Conversley I suppose US gun law must make sense to Americans.

At the end of the day none of us know enough about each others countries to even suggest that we know what is best for the other.



posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 03:49 PM
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By the way how do I sort myself out with one of those avatar thingies?



posted on Jun, 2 2006 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by Vox Populi
I must have had nothing better to do.


You've got alot in common with many people on this board.



Originally posted by Vox Populi
It's is a lot of septics telling us Brits how our country should be run.


Wonderful thing the internet. People from all over the world who will probably never meet in person get together discuss things and alot of the times compare the way they live their lives.


Originally posted by Vox Populi
Is this an American thing?


Well actually the author of this thread Wincherster T is originally from the UK but he saw the light and joined up with us yanks.


Originally posted by Vox populi
I have not seen any posts from Brits telling Americans how to run their country and live their lives.


You're obviously new here.


Originally posted by Vox Populi
Could it be that only Americans get off on doing that?


Be wary of statements like that they tend to bring the board trolls in droves



Originally posted by Vox Populi
I can only speak for me and mine, but most Brits that I know, know very little, and care a whole lot less about American domestic policy and so do not have an opinion on it.


Most Americans don't even know what hemisphere Britain is in. Its so tiny ya' know


Originally posted by Vox Populi
For the record I would say that the UKs gun laws make sense to the British.


Now if only you could lock up all the knives.


Originally posted by Vox Populi
Conversley I suppose US gun law must make sense to Americans.


Not really but you try taking their guns away.


Originally posted by Vox Populi
At the end of the day none of us know enough about each others countries to even suggest that we know what is best for the other.


Speak for your own kind my friend. Us yanks are the most knowledgable people on the planet. We always know best


Feel better this I hope will inoculate you from the effects of board trolls and other ignorance on this board. Enjoy your stay, welcome to ATS



posted on Jun, 3 2006 @ 02:34 AM
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"Well actually the author of this thread Wincherster T is originally from the UK but he saw the light and joined up with us yanks."

then you ought to be wary. You know what they say about turncoats.


Originally posted by Vox populi
I have not seen any posts from Brits telling Americans how to run their country and live their lives.


"You're obviously new here."

As I have said I have only read this thread, can you point to a single British poster calling for stricter US gun control?


"Most Americans don't even know what hemisphere Britain is in. Its so tiny ya' know"


"Speak for your own kind my friend. Us yanks are the most knowledgable people on the planet. We always know best
"

But you just can't help contradicting yourselves hmmm?

"Feel better this I hope will inoculate you from the effects of board trolls and other ignorance on this board. Enjoy your stay, welcome to ATS"


Thank you



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by Vox Populi

It's is a lot of septics telling us Brits how our country should be run.

Is this an American thing?

I have not seen any posts from Brits telling Americans how to run their country and live their lives.

Could it be that only Americans get off on doing that?



You either haven't been here long, or you havent read too many posts.

Everyone likes to tell everyone else how to run their countries on this site, and the country most often told how to conduct their affaqirs is the U.S.



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 05:15 PM
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You either haven't been here long, or you havent read too many posts.

Everyone likes to tell everyone else how to run their countries on this site, and the country most often told how to conduct their affaqirs is the U.S.


However the matter to hand concerns UK domestic policy.

Why would anybody want to tell anybody in the US how their domestic policy ought to be run?

I can only speak for myself of course, but I do not know the first thing about US domestic policy, so what would be the point?

Conversely why would Americans, or anybody else for that matter concern themselves over UK domestic laws?



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 05:28 PM
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Id rather face a 1 in a 100 chance of getting into a fight than a 1 in a 1000 chance of being shot.

Stats are so simplistic and misleading that its not even funny, you can change the requirement for what they class as violence and someone else will come out on top.



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by Vox Populi
Why would anybody want to tell anybody in the US how their domestic policy ought to be run?


The same reason people from the US tell people in the UK or wherever how to conduct their affairs. People are nosey my friend. I can't count the number of times people from other countries jump on the US for their gun policy. Don't tell me its never happened.


Originally posted by Vox Populi
I can only speak for myself of course, but I do not know the first thing about US domestic policy, so what would be the point?


Thats probably true for most people on this board. But that doesn't stop them



Originally posted by Vox Populi
Conversely why would Americans, or anybody else for that matter concern themselves over UK domestic laws?


Americans see others trashing the way they live so they being americans fire back. C,mon man if Brits, Euros or anyone else pay us a visit in the US politics forum expect us to return the favor. After all it would impolite not too.



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 06:50 PM
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Oh dear, here we go again, the lure of the simplistic and supposedly 'easy answer'.

"Just get 'tough', lock 'em all up and throw away the key etc etc blah blah blah".
Doesn't work.

.....and quite why we should follow such a grotesquely expensive penal 'solution' when one of that kind is totally unnecessary anyway (as continental Europe demonstrates) as well as hugely damaging to our society (watch it develop into disproportionate %'s of people from 'certain social groups' - cos that is how it always works out - locked up is not a good thing for ones' society) is far from clear.

I come from a place where the Police are not called upon or used in many areas (unless it's a legal requirement in connection with say your insurance company and then it's a perfunctory report only) and they - the paramilitaries of either 'brand' - perform the role of a 'paramilitary Police'.
They get about as harsh with criminals (especially young 'anti-social' criminals) as it is possible to be.

Car thieves, burglars, drug dealers and most especially the muggers of pensioners in particular all face what the paramilitaries call 'justice' and it invariably is of the 'the more harsh = the more effective' school of supposed 'thought'.

The sort of 'justice' ranging from being shot in the back of one knee (kneecapping) to shot in both knees, both ankles and both elbows (charmingly called a 'Crucifixion').
We even had a fom of 'punishment' where people turned up at an appointed hour and place to be shot in the back of the head, dead obviously, (they called that one 'nutting') because at least that way the paramilitaries would be satisfied and they would agree to leave the offender's family alone.

The other variation on this brutal version of 'justice' is the so-called 'punishment beating.
Usually 'performed' by a gang of several large adult males, one usually waves a gun around to ensure the victim lies down and lets the beating happen without too much struggling and the rest use long heavy iron bars or baseball bats studded with long nails to carry out the beating; the aim is to beat the victim and not stop until one or more (usually several) bones are obviously very broken.
They'll do this kind of thing to adults, youths or even children (one child beaten was 13yrs old I have heard).

The last thing they tend to 'offer' is banishment from NI or else (either the offender or family 'get it).

It still doesn't stop anything.
We still had and have repeat offenders, we still have 'anti-social behaviour' in Northern Ireland......and yes that includes young people receiving a so-called 'punishment beating' or shooting on multiple occasions.

Just because prison might frighten and possibly deter polite middle class people is no reason to imagine that is true for all.

Quite clearly the threat of the most extreme punishment - punishment beyond what anyone is seriously ever going to propose here (as demonstrated in NI) is not 'a solution', so lets stop this pretence that ever more harsh is 'the answer', hmmmm?


[edit on 6-6-2006 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 07:44 PM
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Vox Populi, the most important aspect of a debate is to get peoples views. If we begin to shut off the views of other people because they live in another Nation, that won't help sort out any issue. Our own Government looks at how other Nation's work, they talk with other Nation's. Our policy directly impacts those who visit this Nation, they also help to show other Nations how things might be done.

I'd rather see the views of everyone from around the World, than from one group of people. As soon as we begin to lock out one group, we then begin to lock out people from our own Nation. The site doesn't limit U.K. members from posting on issues in the U.S. and I am glad for this. We're here to help the understand of many issues, so let us do it and bring everyone into the debate.



posted on Jun, 7 2006 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by danwild6
Well actually the author of this thread Winchester T is originally from the UK but he saw the light and joined up with us yanks




Once upon a time, the UK was everyone's whipping boy, but for some time now, the US has filled that role. The Daily Telegraph and the Grundian (sic) frequently have a go at the "insane" lack of gun control in the US, the UN has excluded the USA from a debate on small arms proliferation, and is clearly trying to figure out how to press their anti-gun agenda on a sovreign nation. Meanwhile, back at the thread, the violent crime figures shown in this report for the UK should be ringing alarm bells all over Whitehall - but they aren't, in fact the British press barely covered the story when it broke. Doesn't anyone wonder why ? There's a REAL conspiracy for you right there.

Dan Wild - sorry to hear you were mugged, happy to hear it worked out ok



posted on Jun, 7 2006 @ 06:01 PM
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Sorry but I still find these numbers hard to believe, if we are the most violent "developed" nation in the world then why oh why do we not legalise heavier fire arms??
If ,as the report implies ,the situation is that bad then why is there still a limit on fire arms?
Why are the police not training massive numbers of special reaction teams?
Why is it still that there are only small units?



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 08:28 AM
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Americans see others trashing the way they live so they being americans fire back. C,mon man if Brits, Euros or anyone else pay us a visit in the US politics forum expect us to return the favor. After all it would impolite not too.


I take your point, but I do think that you are missing mine.

I personnaly would not make any comment on US domestic policy, because I am not subject to US law, nor do I pay my taxes to the US gernment. But that is my peronnal opinion.

I hold the further view that if you must comment on another country's way of life then you should do so from an informed perspective. Otherwise you are talking about things that you know nothing about which only makes you look stupid.

(Please note I do not mean you personnaly, or anybody else on this forum personnaly by the above statement)

A case in point is anybody who thinks unfettered gun control is the answer to all of Great Britain's social problems has obviously never seen the Dog & Duck at chucking out time on a Friday, otherwise they would not be suggesting that the right thing to do would be to hand out shooters to all the belligerants.



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by Vox Populi
I hold the further view that if you must comment on another country's way of life then you should do so from an informed perspective. Otherwise you are talking about things that you know nothing about which only makes you look stupid.


Absolutely
I understand your point. For there to be meaningful debate one must be knowledgable in the area you're speaking on.


Originally posted by Vox Populi
A case in point is anybody who thinks unfettered gun control is the answer to all of Great Britain's social problems has obviously never seen the Dog & Duck at chucking out time on a Friday, otherwise they would not be suggesting that the right thing to do would be to hand out shooters to all the belligerants.


Personally I agree with you. Just simply legalizing handguns in the UK won't solve the problem. It might help solve it but it could also make it alot worse. I think a limited legalization would be the way to go.






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