Originally posted by cavscout
Wanna know who says that? People who are tired of hearing that the numbers are stacked against them, but have no answer.
The answer is people who know the difference between the alarmists who want to talk about a 50%!
rise to promote their agenda as opposed, for
instance, to openly and clearly referring to a mere increase of, say, 2 to 4.
I answered you last time you made the same "and no body answered me" whine as an argument and do you know you did? You never replied in that
- That would be because I didn't see your reply.
I've looked where I thought I'd said that (in the 'Is the UK gun ban working' thread) and I can't see it.
Please provide the link to it and I'll return.
You ran away.
- Don't flatter yourself; I simply didn't see it.
If you'll provide a link or info on where it is I'll look again.
Don’t make me embarace you, sminkeypinkey, you know I can.
- Actually I think you just embarrassed
yourself a little there 'bud'.
I'm sorry, didn’t you say that numbers and stats. were useless because they could be played with?
- Actually what I referred to was people who "play with percentages".
Quoting the numbers in full (ie the bald figure and
and % is fine, honest and ok by me.
I noticed you slip the "to the gun" in there. So just how many have you lost to other violence? Bats, knives things of that
- Fine but I can''t see how it particularly 'helps' your case at all.
The number is 36 Officers in 20 years.
How does that compare with where you are, hmmm?
36 officers murdered in England, Scotland and Wales since 1985 (excluding Northern Ireland)
3 were beaten to death
10 were stabbed to death
11 were shot to death
12 were run over and killed by a motor vehicle
(thanks to Leveller for the breakdown figs)
If you are trying to state that gun crime is not a major factor simply because your police can often do nothing but run when facing an armed
criminal then I feel bad for you and the sorry state of your police departments. That’s just sad.
- Well if you could just try and quit the attempts at personal baiting here you might care to consider that rather than this simply being my position
on the matter it is also the position of the most informed and 'expert' people at the sharp end of this.
ie the British Police themselves.
A 2003 Police Federation survey found 80 per cent of officers opposed, a similar figure to that found in the Federation's previous survey in
1995. However, 80 per cent of officers wanted more officers trained to use firearms.
Why, the several that we have already argued in the past weren’t good enough?
- What are you on about?
Which previous links are relevant to this claim, hmmm?
You got a study that refutes his claim?
- Er, hang on.
The way it works is that Winchester made the post and claims so it is hardly unreasonable to ask him to provide a link to substantiate and go along
with those claims.
Care to take that back? Maybe you meant to say people you know? I am CERTAIN there are enough people demanding the right to protect
themselves to turn your statement into a LIE.
- Well obviously there are some
people who take that view in the UK (and I never did say there were not).
if you think there is a substantive number of people so as to be significant and effecting pressure our political parties to move this way
then you are kidding yourself.
So, no, I won't take that back.
'The people' show absolutely no serious sign of calling for guns to be 'legalised' in the UK (in fact quite the contrary, the manifesto pledge by
the Labour party proposing the banning of guns was part of the platform under which they swept to power in 1997 by a landslide).
That is not a lie and claiming the contrary is.
[edit on 25-11-2005 by sminkeypinkey]