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S.P.E.A.R.S. ?

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posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 04:33 PM
I was taking part in some Unarmed Defence Tactics training today (fancy words, also known as "getting out of a bit of a trouble") when the instructors told us about a certian method of self defence which uses muscle memory. We covered a few simple moves of this technique, disarming each other of knives.

As they were talking about this, I remember hearing about this technique - apparently one of the most effective types of self defence - being [I think] called S.P.E.A.R.

I also vaugely remember reading something a long time ago about US Navy SEALS using a similar 21st century martial art technique. Can anyone confirm this?


posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 04:55 PM
Oh the SPEAR system where you fight intinctively without having to memorize the fighting skills and less using the muscle memory. Its more like a fast response non-emotional fighting to defend yourself.

S-Spontaneous, P-Protection, E-Enabling, A-Accelerated, R-Response.

Its something for many people can do. Even in the civilian world.

posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 04:57 PM
Absolutley top. Cheers for that D.

You say civilan use could be applied. I can see the amzing use of it in todays 21st Century urban cities with the amount of crime and all - only problem, I understand it's a bit pricey to learn, seeing as it's only ex-SEALs who can teach it!

[edit on 23/11/2005 by FactoryLad]

posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 05:32 PM
When I was going through the Q course they taught us a system called L.I..N.E.S. or Linear Infighting Neural-override Engagement System. This system was developed by a Marine named Ron Donvito. I imagine S.P.E.A.R.S. is a similar system. My personal opinion is a decently trained boxer can pound on most of the average black belts I have met. Note the word average!!! I still say there is no substitute for being a competent brawler and being able to think on your feet. My two cents. J

posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 05:37 PM
LINES, that's used by the USMC isn't it?

Brawling is the most useful fighting style to use. In my experience, fighting in reality ALWAYS ends up on the floor in a writhering mess. If your going to learn any martial art, I'd make sure you were getting one that focused on brawling as much as things such as disarming opponents.

posted on Nov, 24 2005 @ 02:15 AM
Best advices i was given in military fighting training are:
1)Never ever engage in un-armed fighting
2)if you how ever do, grab the nearest heavy item and smash it to your opponents face... (blunt trauma on bad guys head gives you an advantage)
3)Use some fancy ass tactic (avoid this, since the other guy may know better ones)

posted on Nov, 24 2005 @ 03:17 AM
in order to have the muscle memory you have to do countless repetitions. as for the fighting they teach basic Gracie jujitsu in the armed services. i saw that on the military channel. Gracie BJJ is the worlds most effective fighting system.

posted on Nov, 24 2005 @ 05:08 AM
The basics of /exploiting/ muscle memory preenergization of initiative in attack is not the action of the body but of the minds ability to exploit it's 'EEPROM overlay' to instinct.

In creating an ability to reach in to the point where you know the opponent is **going to be** as a function of 'scaling' his biometries and letting him come to you in (seemingly) speeding your own response to a proactive level.

The former skill is based upon multiple cycles of observing (prior experience really) length and plane of limb motion for a given body height and density of muscle/bone mass (twitch speed) in creating a virtual circle of engagement around the threat that you enter ONLY to create tangent intercepts on their body.

A punch can only be swung so many ways so if you memorize the plane of motion (+/- .5-1ft) that is likeliest due to body tells and muscle isometries ('cocking motion') and then control the 'FSPs' of Facing, Spacing and Pacing you can ensure that ONLY you can reach contact first while X cannot get to (some other part of you) in a feinted secondary attack equivalency.

At which point you can literally begin to read your (untrained) opponents neuromuscular 'mind' to take him down with relatively little trouble.

The problem, as others have mentioned, is that the first guy you have to defeat is Darwin and the second is Newton. Fighters tend to be built and mindsetted for the pastime while defenders tend to be soft and lacking in regular exposure to conditioning and willpower reinforcement to take and give damage without psychological rout.

It just simply takes a certain base conditioning to create any particular type of combattive (fast and hard) motion and those who are in great condition can both extend farther, faster. And fight closer in. Without losing the muscle-attach/joint-angle equivalent ability to 're-cock' themselves and attack again.

Meanwhile, the wider that the 'average joe' has to swing to get the same effect, the longer the path his foot or fist (knee or shoulder) will physically take through space and thus more predictable his attack becomes even as things like torso displacement push-pull him off balance and leave him many seconds away from a continuation of the fight.

No matter how 'good at X do or jutsu he his' (my belt holds up my pants).

This is why, in the movies, you see such long punches and kicks which begin so far away that the telegraphing is obvious enough for the audience to 'see it coming' and understand the choreography of these basically bogus attacks that supposedly allow a small person defeat a big lout by virtue of some kind of 'taikwondo kick' or other exaggerated energy amplification maneuver.

Make the fight REALISTIC however (moving so that you are each within arms reach) where those attacks become much faster and harder to predict (below eyeline) and things descend to the brawl where the strong man is better off controlling his enemies limbs completely and things often end up on the ground in a messy finish of short sharp moves and "I'm on top so therefore you're not winning" foolish attempts to trip, roll and pin.

My instructor told me that you should never kick above the waist because it takes too long and you should /never/ chase an threat down because 'not being a bird' (able to control your vertical descent rate once commited) it's beyond stupid to give yield positional advantage to an opponent coming back up.

Or his friends above you both.

Obviously for weapon fighters and cops who may need to gain control of an individual to disarm them, things are different. But even here, you need to keep in mind three things:

1. Assault Rifles typically have 25-30rds. Autopistols at least 8. The likelihood of you /ever/ facing an enemy that is alone AND unarmed at the same time you are is next to nothing. Similarly, tazed individuals cannot move a single muscle under conscious control for at least 5 and sometimes as much as 45 seconds and are usually weak as a kitten for 2-3 minutes after that.

i.e. If you have the time to back off and employ a weapon. Do so.

2. Good Cops never die alone. While soldiers (bangers, school bullies) often fight in packs. This means that if you get in your partner's way, fangs out and aiming for that perfect victory or vindication of self in return for a cheap shot, s/he can't help you survive let alone control the fight. While, if you die because some other (unseen) ass hawked the fight until you 'went down on' your opponent, it's also _your fault_ for getting buck fever.

3. The only thing that counts when your life is on the line is winning and any time it's more than 1.v.1, your life is lynchable. This is likely where the SEAL and Marine systems depart the norm of fighting tactics because they are likely taught incapacitation or kill shot techniques which make their response infinitely more capable against massed or dangerous foes.

In any case, if you can't win, don't engage. Block, back off, and let the enemy feel you would rather run to sate his ego without stoking the predatory chase-impulse inside.

If you can't avoid engaging, go ugly earlier (White, Yellow, Red, Black) before the other guy controls the degree and pacing of the escalation sequence through typical brawler psyche-up push and shove and yell and cuss motif.

Again, only a fool enters a known risk condition without an ally and/or a pre-spied way out
But if it comes to it, both for "I'm already here by the time you respond to there...." and for dominant psychology intimidation effect, the who-dies-first-second-third method of slaughter before fighting is often the only way to win /thru/ to an exit from a field which your opponent may well himself have chosen the optimum qualities of an ambush in terms of controlled approaches, remote isolation and numeric advantage.

Until you teach lethal technique, unarmed 'self defense' classes only work to increase confidence in the face of those who are so interested in speed of profitable escape (mugger 101) or psychologic self-assurance of victory (the bully/rapist mindset) that you can make it obvious that you are not an _easy_ mark.

Especially for women, the outcome is still pretty much inevitable if their opponent has their testosterone up or a patient (ready weaponed) desire to win at all costs.

That is why (foolishly, IMO) most such course forms end with 'and then you run'.

Soldiers don't run but they are about as likely to fight open hand as they are to climb a building and beat their chest swinging at airplanes.


posted on Nov, 24 2005 @ 07:16 AM
is this the same tactic taht some peoples use, when tehy want to get away really fast... You hit the "bad guy" in a nerve center, and he just goes "black out"... I saw it on tv... very impresive...

posted on Nov, 24 2005 @ 11:04 AM
Its actually called the "Brittany SPEARS" technique. It relies on clever aplications of silicone and airbrushing, with a hint of the most advanced "lip sync" technology:

Happy Turkey Day!!!

[edit on 24-11-2005 by skippytjc]

posted on Nov, 27 2005 @ 06:50 AM
The low down and dirty that Ch 1446 speaks of is absolutelly true... and contrary to the beliefs of many is taught by many both inside the armed forces of the world and the rarified strata of the "purer" forms of most martials arts styles. Some styles to watch for if one wishes to become truly lethal are as follows.

Krav Maga: Israeli defense forces standard martial art... irregardless of your political view on said political nation state the plain truth, the average israeli after basic training can kill you or incapacitate you at will... the amount of suicide/homicide/(whatever politrickally correct term used that week) stopped in the act by joe or jane israeli using tactics taught in basic training speaks for itself.

Systema: The art taught by the spetsnaz, often touted in 39.95 for 3 4 hour dvd sets in SOLDIER OF FORTUNE full page ads. Lethal, no frills and heavy on what some would emphasize as brawling and improvised melee weapon combat as well as the so called undefeatable "trinity hit". Don't buy the vids or dvd's people teach it.

pukulan pentjak silat or serak pentjak silat: Homegrown indonesian fighting art just as deadly as any so called eastern mystical style. and just like said styles one is more likelly to run across a "tournament" style i.e. worthless for the purpose of real nitty gritty do or die situations. Of the 3 off the top of my head listed it is the hardest to find a good teacher but IMO most useful, as it teaches the value of unarmed, melee weapons, and ranged weapons as one contiguous and flowing concept.

Not to discount any western figthing art taught by armed contingents from the commonwealth to the marines to the cossacks. But this is just what I have personal knowledge of.

Now in response to some other comments. the whole reference to being taught a brawling style... first off please don't get in a fight before you learn something other than what jet li and kurt russel have taught you you'll die.
Onto actual comments... the best style is the style that fits you

ANd I CANNOT stress this enough any style saying it subverts muscle memory or allows you to dominate with no practice is unadulterated CRAP with a capital C. without practice anyone is just another overweight loser who plays too much street fighter and mortal kombat ... that's the bottom line.

Your true absolute best bet is to avoid fighting at all costs and if confronted with an inevitable physical confrontation to attack as viciously as possible without any warning you can avoid and hope your friends jump in in the case you are outclassed... that is the whole secret. BE it a marine a spetsnaz or SEAL troopie or joe muhajideen anyone well trained never fights completelly singly but in a ravening snarling continued life is the only points we're fighting for horde. That's it. By the time you reach the point of physical violence it isn't about style points or honour or some other jaded stupid notion of what a man is about but survival.

If you are fighting for anything less... quite simply you're a tool and I hope you take a a brick in the face and 3 months in ICU and multiple reconstructive surgeries cure you of your antisocial and ultimatelly socially darwinistic tendencies.

My last note and this is a personal one: having a situation escalate to physical violence is never a joke or a proof of ones masculinity but a failure of one's abillity to peacably negotiate a mutually satisfactory resolution not involving potential death or permanent incapacitation for one party. Please act accordingly

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