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India: Super Hornet or Mig-35?

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posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 09:55 AM
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The F/A-18 block 2 super hornet ..



Speaking at an update on the Super Hornet, Chris Chadwick, vice-president F/A-18 Program with Boeing Integrated Defense Systems, said the US and Indian governments were holding talks over what technology could be released for the approaching competition for 126 multirole fighters.

The Block 2 includes advanced systems such as the APG-79 Active Electronically Scanned Array, Advanced Targeting FLIR and Multi-Functional Information Distribution System. Co-production with India is likely.

"We know they're interested in co-production and technology transfer," he said. "We're willing to entertain all these different options."

Boeing Plans Super Hornet for India

Its also noteworthy that the US Congress has alredy cleared its sale to India

______________________

The Mig-35


Features :
> New uprated RD-33 engine with a smoke free and corossion resistant chamber and more importantly 3D all aspect 360 degree thrust vectoring (link)

> A new fuel system that allows longer range and in-flight refuelling.

> Payload increased significantly

> New IRST

> Latest Russian RAM coatings have decreased the effective cross-section of the fighter by 300% to 400%.

> The Mig-35 offered to India features an open architecture avionics suite with a MIL-STD-1553B multiplex bus (a first - and this would facilitate integration with western components) and a new multichannel navigation system.(link[/ url] )
> Russia and Mig have agreed to incorporate an Israeli radar and French avionics components into the Mig-35.
Israel have offered India their latest EL/M-2052 AESA radar with 1500+ T/R modules and a ridiculously high tracking capability of 64 targets.

Infact Israel are aggressively marketing this radar in various sizes to India and even displayed it at Aero India-2005 ... its also noteworthy they also signed a deal with India to fit India's Sea Harrier's with the EL/M 2032 and Derby BVR missiles in addition to other avionic upgrades

display of the el/m-2052 AESA ..

www.acig.org...

Here's Alexei Fyodorov, the general director of MiG corporation speaking about it >>


"We will offer our MiG-35 multirole fighters with thrust vectoring control along with transfer of technology for indigenous production in India" Director General and Chief Designer of Russian Aircraft Corporation (RAC) 'MiG' Alexei Fedorov said.

"It has incorporated all the features of MiG-29M/M2 fighters developed on the basis of MiG-29 frontline fighter and today we can offer top-of-the-line multirole combat aircraft with in-flight refuelling" Fedorov said.

According to MiG Deputy Chief Designer Andrei Karasyov MiG-35 is capable of delivering all present and future weapons, since it has universal open architecture.

We are willing to integrate any system, as the user wants it." MiG officials expect India to ask for Israeli Elta radars, display components from France and weaponry of Russian origin. "We have not frozen the technology specifications," said Fyodorov.

The Russians say they can offer the MiG-35 in a Brahmos-like package to India—transfer technology for manufacture within India, and jointly develop the aircraft further and sell it to third countries. "It is a double jump over the Sukhoi deal, so to speak," said a senior official in Rosoboronexport, Russia’s defence export agency. The Sukhoi-30MKI also has thrust vector technology, but is limited to one direction. The technology installed in MiG-35 would allow 360 degree manoeuvrability. And, though the Sukhoi-MKI was developed jointly, there is no provision for joint marketing in the deal.

www.the-week.com...
www.hindustantimes.com...


The range of flight and the payload have increased. Special coatings have decreased the efficient radar cross-section of the fighter by 300% to 400%.

Vladimir Barkovsky, director of the A.I. Mikoyan design bureau, said that the new MiG represents generation 4++ fighter. The fighter has a "glass" cockpit (without backup electromechanical systems), engines with the FADEC system, digital remote control system, open architecture of the onboard hardware with a multiplex bus, multimode radar with up-to-date structure and signal processing system, new optic-electronic station, helmet-mounted sighting system and ground-based flight tasks complex.

Source: Voyenno-Promyshlenny Kuryer, No. 5, 2005, p. 8



____ MY Choice >> The Mig-35 anyday !

[edit on 30-11-2005 by Stealth Spy]
[edited first url to correct page formatting -nygdan]

[edit on 30-11-2005 by Nygdan]

[url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread174967/pg1]Mod Edit: Image Size – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 3/12/2005 by Mirthful Me]




posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 09:59 AM
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The Eurofighter has been offered by EADS, but IMHO India will not buy this money guzzling white elephant .



NEW DELHI, NOV 24: In a new twist to the Indian quest for the 126 medium range combat aircraft (MRCA), a fifth bidder has appeared on the scene nearly a year after the request for information were invited.
Officials attribute the sudden emergence of EADS offering its Eurofighter Typhoon for the prestigious Indian order as a strong bid to keep the American Lockheed Martin and Boeing out of contention.


The four contenders so far were: two American companies including Lockheed Martin, Boeing, French company Dassault and Russian MiG.

However, talking to FE, Mahmut Turker, sales director, military aircraft EADS Defence and Security, said, “We are in New Delhi on a fact-finding mission and have had talks with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) as well other top government officials.”

The EADS team will be visiting Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and explore opportunities for possible expansion of existing ventures.

The Eurofighter Typhoon is a five-nation — Germany, France, Italy, the UK, and Spain — effort and still in the development stage but the visit at this juncture signals that the global company is trying to bag a contract that could be in the region of Rs 30,000 crore to replace ageing MiG-21 fighters.

Currently, French Dassault Aviation’s Mirage 2000-V is said to be the frontrunner in the race.
But the German EADS team is understood to be making the point that the Eurofighter Typhoon will have a “generational difference” with the Mirage.

Unwilling to reveal their strategy, Mr Turker explained that, “EADS is aware of India’s requirement. The company is ready to work with specifications and issues relating to outsourcing and weapon systems to be on board will be addressed during various discussions.

www.financialexpress.com...

IMHO the Typhoon is too expensive and will not be considered. Infact this is the second time the Eurofighter has been offered after it was turned down the previous time (~ 10 months back) despite heavy British lobbying with Indian MP's and IMHO India will not include it into the list of aircrafts it is evaluating ...for the sole reason that India is looking for multirole aircrafts not air dominance fighters ... the IAF alredy has Su-30 MKI's for that role and is more than satisfied with it.


Since the british failed, the Germans are now trying their luck ...


here's a news article that is 10 months old ...

The British government is “pushing hard” for India to purchase the Eurofighter for the Indian Air Force (IAF), Deccan Herald quoted a visiting Indian MP as saying.

Congress MP Jyotiraditya Scindia, who is co-chair of a delegation of cross-party MPs and businessmen from the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FICCI) currently visiting London, told Deccan Herald that the issue of selling the Eurofighter, developed jointly by the UK, Germany, Italy and Spain, was raised by British Defence Procurement Minister Lord Bach last Monday.

Other MPs who were received by Lord Bach included Shiv Sena’s Suresh Prabhu, BJP’s Ananth Kumar, Anand Sharma and Ajay Maken of Congress, Samajwadi’s Akilesh Yadav and Rajya Sabha MP Lalit Puri.

India recently signed a $1 billion deal to purchase 66 Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) aircraft from the UK and the idea of future defence deals involving other fighter aircraft has now been raised by British officials and defence exporters in London.

“As you know the AJT deal has been finalised and that’s close to a billion dollar deal for 66 jets, but there’s also the issue of upgrading six squadrons of MiG 21s and the UK government is pushing hard for the Eurofighter,” Scindia told Deccan Herald in an exclusive interview. “From an Indian standpoint what is interesting is the offset that should be given. That was also the subject of discussion with Lord Bach, who is the minister for defence procurement.”

Scindia, who believes bilateral trade could be worth $12 billion by next year, stressed that defence technology was just one of many areas of future collaboration that was discussed by the delegation with their British hosts. “India and the UK have shared a very long history and a long relationship over decades and over the last six to seven years we have seen the blooming of economic ties between the two countries,” Deccan Herald quoted Scindia as saying.

“In terms of trade that is now worth over $10 billion, hopefully reaching about $12 billion next year; also India happens to be the second most important investor in the UK and similarly the UK also happens to be the third most important investor in India.


and here's what the then air chief marshal Krishnaswamy had to say on the Typhoon >> Talking of some options, Krishnswamy termed the Mirage 2000-V as a "good plane", the MiG-29 MRCA as "very promising". He said there was no emphasis on a twin-engine aircraft. On the Eurofighter (Typhoon), the IAF Chief said his understanding was that "it is yet not a multi-role aircraft" and is "currently available only in its air defence variant"..

Second time lucky ? Maybe not

[edit on 30-11-2005 by Stealth Spy]



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 10:02 AM
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*shakes head* ... EADS never seems to understand
.. the role of the airplane its marketing

the eurocanard oracles are trying to sneak in again ...




[SIZE=4]European consortium pushes Typhoon for IAF contract[/SIZE]
Wednesday November 30 2005 00:00 IST

NEW DELHI: Just days before the government opens bid for one of its largest arms purchase, of 126 multirole fighter aircraft, European defence consortium EADS made a quick last ditch effort on November 25 to push the Eurofighter Typhoon fighter into the $9 billion sweepstakes.

The Typhoon, a higher-end multirole fighter built jointly by UK, France, Germany and Spain, and set to be their frontline fighter in the years to come, was considered as an option late last year by the UPA government during the visit of the then British Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon.

However, considering that the IAF is looking for a medium-range multirole fighter, it was decided that the longer range and considerably more expensive Typhoon would be unsuitable for its immediate needs.

South Block sources indicated that the unsolicited offer by Washington for Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet might have encouraged the European firm to make a final attempt to formally propose Typhoon for the competition.

[SIZE=4] The Typhoon was rejected last year on the same grounds as the French Rfale, which was offered alongside Mirage-2000-5.[/SIZE]

The fact that this will be New Delhi's largest single purchase of fighters has seen countries offering their latest aircraft. Russia, which will field its MiG for the bid, has unilaterally offered the MiG-35, a much-improved variant, which is still to be fully operational.

www.newindpress.com...



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 10:07 AM
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US manufacturers are trying to persuade the Indian government to ease the new offset rules



US manufacturers are trying to persuade the Indian government to ease proposed new offset requirements that would make it difficult for them to compete for military aircraft procurements including next-generation fighters.

Industry sources say a committee set up by New Delhi to draft a national offset policy is recommending direct offsets worth 30% and technology transfers worth 90% for all future imports, in addition to co-production.

US companies have been lobbying India individually and collectively under the US-India Business Council not to implement the offset policy.


New Delhi plans to implement a new offset policy by year-end, but sources say the defence ministry could ignore it.

Sources say if the proposed offset policy is enforced, small US companies would not be able to do any defence business in India and large companies would have trouble competing against European and Russian manufacturers.


India is planning to hand shortlisted manufacturers a highly anticipated tender for at least 126 new fighters next month.

The US government is preparing to respond with pricing for the Boeing F/A-18E/F and Lockheed Martin F-16. New Delhi earlier this year also received preliminary information on the Dassault Mirage 2000, MiG MiG-35 and Saab Gripen.

Sources say efforts by the French and UK governments to persuade India to add the Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon to the shortlist appear to have been successful.

[urlwww.flightinternational.com...]Link.[/url]


___________

More on these new procurement rules >>>


India has set new guidelines regarding military acquisitions from other countries. The most controversial clause of the new guidelines, which came into force on July 1, 2005, includes a key offset clause for any foreign vendor who wins a defense contract worth over $70 million. Under the offset clause, any qualifying defense contract with a foreign vendor will not become effective until after that vendor has concluded the offset contracts for the required 30% of the total cost. This means that the foreign vendor will have to buy defense or other specified equipment from Indian industry.


In addition, the government has also incorporated a new clause stating that the lowest bidder for a program may not necessarily be the winner of a contract, as considerations of strategy and politics may also be taken into account. :rolleyes:

These clauses could particularly affect the planned purchase of 126 light multirole fighter planes. Due to existing arangements, the requirements tilt the playing field somewhat toward the MiG-35
, and raise the bar for U.S. aircraft like the recently-presented F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.


_____--

IMHO the US will be forced to make offsets by outsourcing more ... a related article ...


The USA is paying attention to its aerospace sector, and asking how to keep the field well stocked with quality talent and maintain its trade surplus in that field. Meanwhile, DoD ran a quick article in February 2005 that covered India as a potential outsourcing hub for global aerospace and missile companies. Bangalore is becoming an aerospace hub as well as a computing hub, and Rolls Royce was one of the specific examples used.

Now Rolls Royce has formally established Rolls-Royce Operations India Pvt Ltd. in Bangalore.

This wholly-owned subsidiary will manage the growing volume of engineering work that it is sub-contracting in India. Rolls will use this firm to help it maintain its 1,000+ aero engines serving in long-term defence programs and in civil aerospace, marine and energy applications. Some ring forgings will be exported for use in Rolls' civil engines.

The subsidiary will also manage subcontracting to engineering analysis and design partners like Quality Engineering and Software Technologies (QuEST), which has a newly-operational Rolls Royce Centre in Bangalore with 100 engineers. There are plans to double that total by 2007, and Rolls credits its 18-month experience with them as the pilot program it needed in order to gain first-hand experience of the operational, commercial, financial and cultural requirements for successfully sub-contracting high quality engineering work to India. Full corporate release ... www.rolls-royce.com...



[edit on 30-11-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Mod Edit: Link Length.

[edit on 4/12/2005 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 10:10 AM
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Link

Sources say efforts by the French and UK governments to persuade India to add the Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon to the shortlist appear to have been successful.


..every oracle and every joker has joined the party now...maybe now Sukhoi might be comtemplating including the Su-30 MKI into it as well
.. or why not include the JF-17 bandaar into it as well


thankfully the F-15 will not enter the "party" ....



Boeing will not offer the F-15 Eagle for India's forthcoming fighter needs but would like to offer the latest Block 2 version of the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, the company said at the show yesterday.

Speaking at an update on the Super Hornet, Chris Chadwick, vice-president F/A-18 Program with Boeing Integrated Defense Systems, said the US and Indian governments were holding talks over what technology could be released for the approaching competition for 126 multirole fighters.

"What we will offer, is the Block 2 capability. The F-15 will not be offered."

The Block 2 includes advanced systems such as the APG-79 Active Electronically Scanned Array, Advanced Targeting FLIR and Multi-Functional Information Distribution System.

Both Boeing and Lockheed Martin urgently need orders for the F-15 and F-16 Fighting Falcon to prevent production line gaps from 2008. The Indian request for proposals is expected this autumn, with the winning aircraft likely to be chosen in late 2008 or early 2009. Co-production with India is likely.


Link.

Also, since the chinese entered into the 100 million $ tender for providing C4I systems (IAI vs Elbit vs Northrop Grumman vs Raytheon vs Thales vs EADS vs Huawei)for the IAF ... i wont be surprised if at this rate the J-10 might be thrown in as well



The IAF’s global tender also comes at a time when a bid made by a Chinese software and telecommunication firm for a highly classified defence communication network in India had set alarm bells ringing in South Block(Indian PM's office). This had also set off a debate in military circles about the consequences of outsourcing sensitive military projects.
www.tribuneindia.com...

Quite honestly, this is getting riddiculous ... every oracle there exists seems to be taking his shot at the 9 billion $ sweepstakes
.. some leads are claiming that South Korea are trying to get their new A-50 (modified T-50 fighter) into the praty as well
..

[edit on 30-11-2005 by Stealth Spy]

[edited news code to correct page formatting -nygdan]

[edit on 30-11-2005 by Nygdan]

Mod Edit: Link Length.

[edit on 4/12/2005 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 10:21 AM
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Hmm...it may perhaps happen that Russia will throw in their own AESA radar in compitition to the El/M-2052 AESA ... check this out what Mig's director general said ...


The MiG-35 is the new name for the MiG-29OVT, which features an all-axial deflected vectored thrust (DTV) engine for extreme manoeuvrability. DTV also gives the aircraft the ability to fly at very low altitudes without resorting to high angles of attack.
Alexey Fedorov, RSK MiG’s director/designer general, says that the company felt the aircraft warranted the new designation due to its extended airframe life over the MiG-29OVT and the addition of the Tikhomirov NIIP Bars-29 active phased array radar.
“We have extended the life cycle of the airframe to around 6,000h,” says Fedorov. “The MiG-35 has a host of improved, compatible technology and can now compete successfully with every other modern fighter in the world.”
Fedorov adds that the use of omni-directional DTV makes the MiG-29M/M2 more precise and effective.
The MiG-35 should debut in 2006, but show visitors can see just how manoeuvrable a MiG with vectored thrust can be every afternoon.


Flight International Article

So the new variant of the Bars-29 is AESA
_____



MiG-35 to Be Equipped with Active Phased Array Radar

The MiG-35multirole combat airplane which it is planned to offer for the Indian fighter tender, will have a radar with an active phased antenna array (AFAR).

Right now the Fazotron-NIIR corporation is intensifying efforts on the AFAR creation for these airplanes,” a source in the defense industrial complex reported to Interfax-AVN. He noted that for participation in the tender, it is necessary to assemble and test a experimental example of an AFAR in good time. It earlier had been reported that India plans to purchase 126 fighters at a total cost of nearly 4 billion dollars for its air force.

According to the information of Indian sources, part of the fighters will be delivered in ready form, and part, it is possible, will be assembled under license at enterprises of the Indian HAL corporation. It is expected that besides the Russian MiG-29, the Swedish JAS-39C and French Mirage-2000-9 will take part in the Indian tender.

Source: 25.11.05, Avia.RU


Link

[edited first url to correct page formatting -nygdan]

[edit on 30-11-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 10:35 AM
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Getting to the MRCA tender again ... the Gripen's radar and sensor suite seems very impressive ... and its AESA as well ...

[SIZE=3]NORA – ACTIVE ELECTRONICALLY SCANNED ARRAY[/SIZE]
Ericsson’s future airborne radar is Not Only a Radar, NORA
, but also a complete electronic warfare system including jamming and data communication. The new radar will use an Active Electronically Scanned Array, AESA, built up with approximately 1000 individual transmit/receive modules. The antenna, mounted on a single-axis platform, will give well over 200 degree coverage in azimuth. NORA will offer superior performance by virtue of a number of core capabilities at Ericsson – beam agility, beam widening, multi-channel processing, target-specific waveforms and low radar cross-section.

In addtion it also offers :
-High resolution air-to-air and air-to-ground modes
-Outstanding tracking performance
-Comprehensive ECCM
-High Reliability
-Full support for AMRAAM missiles
-Modular construction

[SIZE=3]MIDIS – MODULAR, MULTI-FUNCTIONAL DEFENSIVE INFORMATION SYSTEM[/SIZE]
A new dimension in electronic warfare: MIDIS is a highly modular and multi-functional defensive information system that meets the requirements for situation awareness, survivability and sensor fusion in tomorrow’s dense and complex signal environment. MIDIS introduces new principles for signal selection and adaptive processing allied with state-of-the-art technology of Ericsson’s in-house integrated Microwave MultiChip Modules (MMCM).


^^A new dimension in electronic warfare: MIDIS is a highly modular and multi-functional defensive information system.

[SIZE=3]MACS – MODULAR AIRBORNE COMPUTER SYSTEMS[/SIZE]
Developed for the Gripen fourth-generation multi-role fighter, the Ericsson MACS is a standardized, highly modular multiprocessor real-time computer concept designed for severe airborne environments with their real-time applications. MACS meets all the requirements for demanding airborne situations and provides:

- High real-time performance
- Modular functionality and performance
- Low weight, volume and power consumption
- High reliability


^^Developed for the Gripen fourth-generation multi-role fighter, the Ericsson MACS is a standardized, highly modular multiprocessor real-time computer concept designed for severe airborne environments with their real-time applications.



Here's a GREAT Gripen cutaway (1.5 MB jpg file !)

link

[edit on 30-11-2005 by Stealth Spy]



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 11:35 AM
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Dont forget the F-16 block 70 that is also competing in the tender ...

Lockheed Martin are offering a "fully loaded" variant of the F-16 exclusively to India. This variant is an improvement of the block 60 that was sold to the UAE.


US aviation manufacturer Lockheed Martin has offered to build "exclusive" F-16 fighters for the Indian Air Force, much superior to any existing fighters in service world over.

".. we are prepared to make upgraded F-16s to India's specifications with complete transfer of technology,
" Mike Kelly, senior executive of Lockheed Martin.

"We are ready to develop new Block 70 for the IAF," the Lockheed Martin official said.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com...
_________


...The UAE is the only customer so far for the Block 60, but Lockheed is not ruling out offering the aircraft to India. “We don’t have a firm understanding of the requirement yet, but we will offer a couple of different configurations with a range of capabilities up to the Block 60’s radar and systems,” says June Shrewsbury, F-16 programme general manager.
...
Lockheed Martin is flight testing the next step in capability for the F-16E/F Block 60 fighter. While the expanded Standard 2 capability is being flight tested, the final Standard 3 is in design. “Development is on course,” says

Standard 2 adds capability, including the internal forward-looking infrared and targeting system, integrated electronic warfare system, additional modes for the APG-80 active-array radar and automated modes for the digital flight control system.

“Standard 2 and 3 are for the most part software only,” says Franks, “although there is additional alternate mission equipment and weapons at Standard 3.” The final standard also includes additional automated modes. “We are developing and flight testing Standard 2, and in the middle of designing Standard 3, with the pieces coming together at the suppliers,” he says. Standard 2 will be available “in the first part of 2006”.

full article >>

and this seems to be the reason ....

The potential for 126 jets is a significant program," said Tom Jurkowsky, a Lockheed spokesman. "If we don't get any more F-16 orders by 2005, we would have to take action to close the line. India is a market we want to pursue."

link

The block 60 features :

> Its range is extended with addition of fuselage mounted conformal fuel tanks and wing tanks.
> Northrop Grumman AN/APG-80 "Agile Beam Radar" AESA radar
> Northrop Grumman AN/ASQ-28 IFTS (Internal FLIR and Targeting System)
> F110-GE-132 turbofan, rated 32,500 lbs thrust
> New Modular mission computer has a processing throughput of 12.5 million instructions per second and provides sensor and weapons integration.
> ALQ-165 electronic countermeasures system, also known as the Airborne Self-Protection Jammer (ASPJ)
> New electronic warfare management system
> Fiber-optic avionics data bus
> Up to eight chaff/flare dispensers,
> New advanced friend or foe detection system
> New pilot-aircraft interface by incorporating three advanced 5-inch by 5-inch color displays.

The block 70 might have the M4.2+ avionics added to the above list as well >>

The F-16 is a compact, multirole fighter aircraft designed to be highly maneuverable in air-to-air combat and air-to-surface attack. There are several versions of the F-16 used by the United States, including the Block 40 and Block 50.

The Block 40 F-16 primary mission fills the air-to-surface attack role, while the Block 50’s primary mission is destruction and suppression of enemy air defenses.

The M4.2-plus avionics upgrade combines both combat roles into a single fighter aircraft. The upgrade is being completed using spiral development, meaning all program stakeholders, including developmental testers, contractors and operational units work together early in the process to ensure testing is conducted more efficiently. This helps align operational objectives and is geared toward providing mature, stable systems to the warfighter as quickly as possible.

"The M4.2-plus upgrade achieves the goal of the Air Force's F-16 Common Configuration Implementation Program to support common aircraft equipment and core avionics software capabilities," said Shauna Urwiller, Global Power Fighters program manager from the 416th FLTS.

www.af.mil...

The block 70 seems to be one hell of an awesome package.....since tech transfer is mandatory for the MRCA tender, it will be hard for India to say no to all those technologies.




Infact Lockheed Marting displeyed these latest F-16's in Indian Air Force Markings at Aero India 2005 >> here are the links (pics are large)

F-16 in IAF colours


Underside


[edit on 30-11-2005 by Stealth Spy]



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 01:15 PM
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All very intersting, but where do India get the idea that the Typhoon is not multi role and is part French????? Both wrong.



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 02:59 PM
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SS, you reaaaly need to go easy on the text highlighting and size, bro. Just scanning the thread hurts my eyes

Waynos,
I think the article is referring to the initial rejection of the Typhoon because like the Dassault Rafale, EADS would not let India domestically produce it anytime soon (+ the $$$$!)



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 05:37 PM
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Oh sure. I can understand that India might not buy it for reasons of cost but there is also a clear statement at least twice in the thread that it is not multirole, and I felt I wanted to pick up on this line below after I read it in the thread for the third time




The Typhoon, a higher-end multirole fighter built jointly by UK, France, Germany and Spain



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 10:03 AM
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Maintaining that "F-16s are very much in contention", Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal S P Tyagi today said the Government is expected to issue Request for Proposals (RFPs) to prospective parties on purchasing 126 fighter aircraft.

"I think within a month's time, RFPs will go," the Air Chief Marshal told reporters here on the sidelines of a function at Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment.

Asked about the possibility of F-16s bagging the deal, he said: "That possibility exists. Of course, we have asked them for information; so, it's very much in contention."

He termed the recent second Indo-US air exercise at the IAF's Kalaikunda airbase in West Bengal a "great learning process". "From military point of view, it's a great learning process; they (Americans) learnt from us and we learnt from them."

"We get to exercise with different kind of equipment..We have exercised F-16s and AWACs; that's the big advantage to India," said Air Chief Marshal Tyagi, who described F-16s as "decent aircraft",.


www.outlookindia.com...

[edit on 1-12-2005 by Stealth Spy]



posted on Dec, 2 2005 @ 04:41 AM
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Originally posted by intelgurl
here's a question:

Which one should India go for and why?



Clearly the F-18... because the US will send ambassador peter griffin to use the arguement of:

"Come on... coooome on... come on... commme on..."

And India will follow..

and then the peasants rejoice...


Though the MIG might be the better buy... the US and India have a growing economic relationship which would only be strengthened by the purchase of the F18. That could be reason enough.


... besides.... "come on..."



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 04:09 AM
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The US wants to dispel the notion that it is an unreliable partner concerning defence deals. According to sources, “The US agrees that at the political level there is a signal that it is willing to address this issue.”

New Delhi has acknowledged that the US remains the source of some big technologies, therefore, the two countries are moving towards taking defence ties beyond the realm of joint military exercises.

India provides a very good platform for outsourcing some component manufacture or joint production” the sources said.

The United States embassy officials told FE that the US administration was upbeat and open about developing tie-up with India on sales and transfer of technology in strategic arms field and disclosed for the first time that since January 2002, the United States arms and systems sales to India had touched almost a $1 biLLIon.

“So far 1,320 licences for arms hardware worth $300 million and 156 agreements worth more than $688 million had been authorised,” the officials said. “With the state department going fully electronic by year end, we expect arms sales licence clearance to be shorter than present 14 to 15 calender days,” they added.

full article...........



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 04:11 AM
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The Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal S.P. Tyagi, said on Thursday that there is no pressure from the United States to buy the F-16 fighter aircraft for the Indian Air Force.

"There is no pressure from anyone. We will buy any aircraft we need. After all, we are paying for them.".

link



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 11:49 PM
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Buy the MiG. Or the SAAB. F-16 is getting old. The the F-18E/F? Please...
I find it amusing that an aircraft with so much technology into designing it could be so completely messed up. Range was bad and manuverability was not that great. And the fact that really cracks me up... Having to redo the wing because of pitch-up. PITCH-UP. That's a term I thought was dead. From what I've read, the last aircraft to have that problem was back in the 1950's. Now, suddenly, this new, state of the art jet has the same problem? There's a hint. GET RID OF IT. They made it look like an F-18, but it sure doesn't act like one. As much as I've read that's wrong with that thing, I'd rather fly with a pair of pliers. Or at least a normal F-18. There's a case where they did it right the first time. So don't mess with it.



posted on Dec, 6 2005 @ 11:35 AM
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RSK MiG sweetens Indian fighter offer



Russian design bureau RSK MiG has upped the stakes in India’s 126-aircraft lightweight fighter contest by announcing its intention to offer a production variant of the MiG-29OVT demonstrator that debuted at last August’s Moscow air show. Dubbed the MiG-35, the new design will be offered in response to a request for proposals to be released by New Delhi late this month or in early 2006, says RSK MiG director general Alexey Fedorov.

The proposed MiG-35 variant, which supersedes an earlier RSK MiG offer to India of the MiG-29M2, would be equipped with the MiG-29OVT’s RD-33MK all-axis thrust-vectoring engines
, an active phased-array radar
and have an airframe life of 6,000h.
“We have delivered documents to India and are optimistic about the results of this tender,” says Fedorov. The design is expected to face competition from the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Mirage 2000, Lockheed Martin F-16, Saab Gripen and, potentially, the Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon to replace MiG-21s.

Meanwhile, RSK MiG expects to begin flight tests of the Indian navy’s first of 12 MiG-29K single-seat and four MiG-29KUB two-seat carrierborne fighters in the first quarter of next year, says Fedorov. To be delivered between 2007 and 2009, the aircraft could be followed by another 30 MiG-29K/KUBs from 2010-15 under an existing option.

www.flightinternat... ional.com/l

[edit on 6-12-2005 by Stealth Spy]



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 02:48 PM
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Why does Russia copy our fighter planes? Mig 35 looks like a F-15 Eagle. The only migs built by Russia that look like a Russian plane is the earlier migs.



posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 09:59 AM
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Folks ,

Time is running out . The Chinese and the Pakis are steadily increasing their their strength both in numbers and quality whereas we are still debating . Please note that no plane offers 100 % solution - a 75 % at best and the rest is upto our own technical ingenuity and political commitment towards our defense. Kindly do not forget that Mig 27's and the Jaguars and possibly Mirage 2000's will be up for replacement soon and any new MRCA will take a minimum of 3 to 5 years to be effectively operational . Meanwhile our pilots are getting killed flying obsolete airframes - this is criminal . My suggestions are:-

a) An interim solution is required immediately and some out of box thinking is required. To hell with offsets in the immediate future.

b) We are manufactuing Hawk trainers. Three to five squadrons of single seat Hawks ( Version 1000 or 2000) configured for air to air and light attack should be manufactured and serve as point defense fighters replacing equal number of MIg 21's . This coupled with Mig 29 shall beef up the numbers for Air Defense . Hawks are very good dogfighters and with MICA AAM's they will make the opposition think. I am sure the Brits shall be glad to tom tom this purchase .

c) Mig 29 ( OVT ) or the latest version thereof in land version should be acquired for replacing at least three squads. of Mig 21's without delay. The Russians have no backlogs and some extra money can sweeten the deal. These can start coming in within 6 months. I see a force of 135 Mig 29's in the near future Time is everthing.

d) Now comes the crunch. America shall never forsake Pakistan for obvious reasons and shall continue to arm them while pretending friendship , strategic interest , etc.,etc. with us . The Russians are no longer the Soviets - they cannot be trusted as long term strategic partrners and every deal with them should be pure commercial - one on one . Their own forces are woefully short to equipment and are more of a uniformed mob , as an European expert put it. So this limits us to Eurofighter, Rafale and Gripen. I would like to take a risk here . Let us choose the Rafale . HAL should immediately start tooling up for 'Total Licenced Manufacturing ' of Rafale and aim to become a worldwide hub for Rafale. This decision shall surely prompt other nations to look at the Rafale and an Indian + French requirement for 300 to 500 aircraft shall bring down the per unit price. Most important - the French are good suppliers and will not renege on the deal. Secondly their avionics and missiles are excellent and all in all the Rafale can be the future Naval fighter also. The Rafale can replace the Mig-29,Mirage 2000, Mig 21 , Naval Jaguars,etc. This should bring economies of scale.

e) I still love our LCA and every time I see a vedio I can only hope it works out. 'Dil hai Hindustani' , you know . I implore our scientists to ensure that by 2010 end India gets its first squad of Tejas. It would be great if the Tejas serves as a bread and butter fighter of the future and our AF with SUMK, Rafale, Tejas should be the high performance future.



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