It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

India: Super Hornet or Mig-35?

page: 1
0
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 01:38 PM
link   
As India gets closer to making a decision on it's latest fighter aircraft acquisition, 2 strong contenders seem to be the Super Hornet and the Mig-35 (formerly the Migt-29OVT) which has the extremely manoeuvrable, all-axial deflected vectored thrust "DTV" engine.

India, recently requested a classified briefing on the Super Hornet's new Raytheon APG-79 AESA radar. The U.S. State Department is expected to decide in January or February whether to approve that request. By granting the classified briefing the United States would indicate it is willing to approve the radar's sale to India.

A. Fedorov, MiG’s designer general, says that the Mig-35 warranted the new designation due to its extended airframe life over the MiG-29OVT along with the Tikhomirov NIIP Bars-29 active phased array radar, open architecture avionics with a MIL-STD-1553B multiplex bus, a multichannel navigation system and a new fuel system that allows longer range and in-flight refuelling.

The pricetag on the Super Hornets with the APG-79 AESA radar is around $53 million, not sure about the Mig, but here's a question:

Which one should India go for and why?




posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 01:59 PM
link   
Word has it that India is leaning heavily towards the MiG-35, being most of its aircraft are of Russian, or French, origin. Also, being that the Indian Air Force also currently uses early variants of the MiG-35. Ease of part acquisition, training, etc., again, favor the acquisition of the MiG-35s over the F/A-18s and/or F-16s. Furthermore, India is more interested in the supplier's commitment, be it MiG or Boeing or Lockheed Martin, to share technologies to make spare parts, and to develop and produce aircraft in India. I am not sure that Boeing is willing to allow such, though I have read that Lockheed Martin has offered such a deal to India if they were to buy F-16s. Not sure what MiGs take on this is or prior offers, but with their relative close proximity of Russia to India and their [Russia] already working with India on other future aircraft projects, aircraft upgrading ,etc would be better suited/leans towards/favors a MiG/Russia solution and acquisition.





seekerof

[edit on 23-11-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 02:02 PM
link   
I would get alittle of both if I was them. India seems to be in a lucky position in that they can buy both US and Russian planes. I would have to take advantage of that. If I had to get only one I would try to play both companies for as much as I could get trying to get each company to one up the other guys on tech or price.

If I could get Super Hornets with the APG-79 AESA for sure I would take them over the Mig 35. Vectored thrust manoeuvrablity is great and all but I would rather be able to get the first shot off and not have to deal with the whole dogfight thing. I think the increased targeting and tracking range of the AN/APG-79 AESA would allow me to do just that.



posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 02:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
I would get alittle of both if I was them.

Dont forget maintenance costs, its much better to have one type of plane, or only American or Russian aircraft. That saves a lot of $$$.

The F-16 is also still in the race: Lockheed Martin Optimistic on F-16 Order and Russia wants to develop a new 5th generation fighter together with India (source).

A quick Google News search makes it clear Russia and India are more than willing to cooperate, and I think in the future, the Russians will have more to India than the US. Russian oil exports are raising and raising, while other countries will soon (in less than 15 yrs to my opinion) have to fight over what's left of the Middle-East oil reserves...



posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 02:45 PM
link   
I think this deal has more to do with future purchases and arrangements than this one.

If India goes with the Mig-35, then that would make the next choice more in Russia's favor and on and on.

But I really think that India really prefers a stronger relationship with the USA in this regard.

It seems they prefer the Mig as a piece of hardware, but want the relationship with the USA that comes with the Hornet...

Mmm....A great plane and a relationship with a financially "challenged" ex superpower? Or very good plane and a great partnership with the worlds premier superpower?

Im sure we will know soon enough.



posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 03:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by skippytjc
I think this deal has more to do with future purchases and arrangements than this one.

...

Mmm....A great plane and a relationship with a financially "challenged" ex superpower? Or very good plane and a great partnership with the worlds premier superpower?

You are right about the fact that the US is the premier superpower, but as you say yourself; this fighter deal has to with the future as well. China and Russia will soon be the world's superpowers, not the US.



posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 03:19 PM
link   
I think that a factor to consider is how much in the way of offsets are going to go to the Indian aviation industry.

I think that on paper the Mig makes more sence. However, the offsets and the political dimentions need to be considered as well.

India is a powerfull player in the region and has had a resurgence in relations with the US. What better way to cement that relationship than buying a high end fighter aircraft?



posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 03:59 PM
link   
Is this for land based or naval based aircraft?

if naval based then the answer is simple : the MiG.

why? the Hornet CANNOT launch with the use of a catapult - the MiG CAN.


And India`s carriers do not have catapults.



posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 04:40 PM
link   
land base fighter aircraft is what India wants. they have been deciding among the 28 aircraft in the first place and now the list has been shortened. of course the Cope India exericises reveal the American aircraft weaknesses but that was the F-15s. however it is American aircraft. my pick would be the MIGs since India has experience with it and they are impress by the Russian aircraft they bought from Russia years ago.



posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 05:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by Zion Mainframe
You are right about the fact that the US is the premier superpower, but as you say yourself; this fighter deal has to with the future as well. China and Russia will soon be the world's superpowers, not the US.




Keep dreaming.

Russia doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell at rivaling the US for the next half century. China can not sustain it's current economic growth. It will hit a wall, mark my words. On top of that, China has a half century and several trillion dollars worth of military infrastructure before it can even hope to complete.

back on topic...

If I were India, I think I would try to get in on the JSF program. That would be my first choice.



posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 06:46 PM
link   

Originally posted by American Mad Man
If I were India, I think I would try to get in on the JSF program. That would be my first choice.

India IS trying to get on the F-35 JSF program.
As for your other comments about Russia and China, aside from military infrastructure these 2 sleeping giants have great economic potential and Zion's comments have a great deal of merit.

The Russians consider the US a "hyperpower", but if our economy goes in the dirt then that could very well leave China and Russia as the only superpowers.



posted on Nov, 24 2005 @ 04:48 AM
link   

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Keep dreaming.


Actually no. Experts say China will surpass USA in terms of economy in just 30 years.


Originally posted by American Mad Man
If I were India, I think I would try to get in on the JSF program. That would be my first choice.


Not really, not at all.

What's better, buying 5th gen fighters, with no chance of building them, or even possibly repair parts for them yourself [as would surely be the case with usa/lockheed]

Or jointly developing 5th gen fighters, and being able to make them and everything for them yourself [as would be with russia and Sukhoi/Mikoyan-Gurevich ]

Now if I was to choose, the 2nd option sounds far more appealing



As for the current debate I'd have to give it to the mig35.

Just because it would be cheap to make, cheap to maintain, easier to train current pilots for, more rugged and overall better in features.

However, lets not forget the close Russian-Indian military ties



posted on Nov, 24 2005 @ 05:06 AM
link   
Just a (side)note, Russia is rapidly getting rid of their national debt with their oil money. On the other hand USA is getting deeper and deeper into debt...

USA is running out of rawmaterials, Russia still has plenty of known sources left and more uncovered every day...

USA is getting more and more negative news and more enemies very day, Russia has managed to remain more positive for the last few years (By no means they are angels, but to an average abdullah they seem a far better than USA)

China will collapse because nothing can sustain that kind of an economy, sooner or later trade embargoes and trade politics will be used to crush their economic growth and that will bring down the CCP and force the country into chaos..

Russias greatest fear is letting some Zhirinovsky type ultra-nationalist grab the power.

So which one will prevail in the end...? I don't know...



posted on Nov, 24 2005 @ 05:54 AM
link   

Originally posted by skippytjc
But I really think that India really prefers a stronger relationship with the USA in this regard.

It seems they prefer the Mig as a piece of hardware, but want the relationship with the USA that comes with the Hornet...

Mmm....A great plane and a relationship with a financially "challenged" ex superpower? Or very good plane and a great partnership with the worlds premier superpower?


I'd say they'd be very wary of any worlds regarding a 'relationship'.

Countries don't have friendships, they have interests. I don't know if India will be too trusting of the US considering their recent position on Venezuela F-16 upgrades.



posted on Nov, 24 2005 @ 07:13 AM
link   
Might very well be that the Mig would be a better choise... But because I LOVE the F/A-18 I'd choose that plane instead....


Personal feelings involved...



posted on Nov, 24 2005 @ 08:52 AM
link   
external image

MiG-29OVT

sory if its too big

Mod Edit: Image Size – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 24/11/2005 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Nov, 24 2005 @ 11:54 AM
link   
Trade embargoes? Last time I checked, we were a member of the WTO and as a member of the WTO......Just google it, its too long to type especially in a webcafe.

True that we can't sustain 9.6 percent economic growth for a long period of time however what China is doing is, using the profit gained from low tech exports to develope our high tech industry. So in the future, China would move from a country of low tech exports to high tech exports, like would you spend $500 on a Ipod or would you like to spend $200 on something equivilant to the Ipod or even one with more features? We would be mainly exporting cheap electronics and techo gadgets and necessities instead than the mainly exports associated with cheap labour therefore we still have a huge potential in taking over the global economy. The need of cheap labour, cheap production and high quality are always existant and a labour force with a 96% literacy rate is unprovidable outside China with a price that we can provide it. Our economic growth should settle down to a rate of around 7% - 8% in around 15-20 years.

By CHina's current trajectory we shall achieve a buying power equivilant to that of the US in 17 years however we will not EVER achieve a GDP per capita equivilant to the US ever or we'd have a GDP 4 times greater than the US due to our population.

China will not collapse, despite the CNN propaganda about China threat and red China, the Chinese population live happily today under a country with a bright future, endless opportunities and low crime rate.



[edit on 24-11-2005 by COWlan]



posted on Nov, 24 2005 @ 11:56 AM
link   
Sorry no time guys so I'll just give my choices..

MiG 29 OVT/Mirage 2005 for reasons below:

1. Already available infrastructure for maintenance and training.
2. 20 Years of experience with predecessor versions, and hence development of homegrown strategies/software/hardware is inevitable.
3. Assurance of supply of spare parts and maintenance under most circumstances form France/Russia, i.e. norisk of any "Pressler Amendment"-type backtracking..

In terms of pure tech and a/c performance, I'm sure the Mig-35 is quite good.
Why don't the experts compare the two?
Also the MiG35 has TVC, and is comparatively newer than the Hornets which are on their way out.
I don't know much about India nd the F-35.
Personally didn't think they were too keen on it.
But also don't know the situation with the PAK-FA..
Will try and get some home grown info.



posted on Nov, 24 2005 @ 11:56 AM
link   

Originally posted by American Mad Man

If I were India, I think I would try to get in on the JSF program. That would be my first choice.


Someone posted pictures from the a India international air show awhile back I think "Stealthspy" and the US companies had pictures and models of the JSF with India markings.

I know they have also been invited to JSF events. The F35B could serve India very well in both naval and land roles.

I guess i the light of the fact that India might be sold JSFs F/A-18 aircraft could be more of a testing opportunity than a buying opportunity.



posted on Nov, 24 2005 @ 12:03 PM
link   
Hornets are on their way out of service however Super Hornets are actually quite new, they were designed to replace the Hornets and Tomcats alongside the F-35, SH will serve for another few decades.

India was offered the SH however the SH is a crap load more expensive than the MIG-29OVT, around 25-30mil more. Basically with one SH, you could buy almost 2 MIG-35s. One thing about the MIG-35s are their range, they share the same faults as the original MIG-29s, they are small, light and their wings hold little fuel therefore limiting their range by quite a lot.



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join