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Topic started on 22-11-2005 @ 08:04 PM by Hellmutt
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Hundreds of Turkish women are murdered in "honour killings" each year. A UN report was released today and according to the report Turkish women are
forced by their families to wed rapists. If they refuse to wed the rapist they will be murdered, or in other words "die for their families
honour".
news.scotsman.com
• UN report says Turkish women forced by families to wed rapists
• Hundreds of Turkish women killed in 'honour killings' each year, says report
• Report comes as Turkish government pressed to reform to join EU
"When a girl is raped by a man, since she is no longer a virgin, it is usually believed that the best way to solve the problem is to get them
married, especially if the man is not already married" - UN report
RAPE victims in Turkey can be forced by their own families to marry their rapists - or risk being killed in the name of family honour, according to a
United Nations report released today. The report, by the United Nations Population Fund, is the first in-depth study
in Turkey of the different motivations behind "honour-killings", where women and young girls are murdered by their relatives for allegedly bringing
shame on the family. Human rights activists estimate that hundreds of Turkish women are murdered in such killings each year.
Apart from rape, the report defines other situations where a woman from such a community might be murdered.
One major concern highlighted by the report was the lack of shelters for women on the run from their families.
Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
Honour killings is not just a Turkish phenomena, it happens all over the world. Many women simply disappear, and if they are not reported missing by
anyone they won´t get status as a "missing person". Some murders are camouflaged as "suicide". Many women are on the run in fear of getting
killed by their own families. This practice of honour killings has to stop.
Related News Links:
Scotsman: Forced marriage & honour killings
Spiegel: The Murder of a Turkish Woman in Berlin
BBC News: 'Honour killing' father begins sentence
National Geographic News: Thousands of Women Killed for Family
"Honor"
Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Porn star hunted by extremist Muslims
Turkey And Croatia To Enter EU?
[edit on 2005/11/22 by Hellmutt]
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reply posted on 22-11-2005 @ 08:57 PM by GradyPhilpott
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I think your pretty much preaching to the choir here. This is just one more indication of the great culture divide between Islam and the west. It
should also give us that much more motivation to overcome and defeat this kind of rabid theocratic radicalism.
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reply posted on 22-11-2005 @ 11:58 PM by Ambient Sound
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[sarcasm] Their religion tells them it's ok and proper for them to treat their women in this way. Who are the rest of us to argue with their beliefs?
[/sarcasm]
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reply posted on 23-11-2005 @ 01:48 AM by Astronomer68
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I did not realize such killings were common in Turkey, I knew they were a problem in Pakistan, Afganistan, Egypt and even in India, but Turkey prides
itself on being secular, so I would not have expected them to be that widespread there. On a related note, the treatment of young Islamic women and
teen age girls throughout Europe is shocking. From what I have read, gang rape of them is rampant.
Until prosecution of the men and assisting women involved in these crimes occurs on a much wider basis I don't expect much will change. Right now it
is difficult because even the police condone the underlying beliefs.
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reply posted on 23-11-2005 @ 02:59 AM by alphacenturi
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Just part of the very first line of the UN. report is horrible and sad {when a girl is raped by a man] this in itself is tragic as the gender term
'girl' is usually assciated with 'boy' not man. I don't understand any culture or religion that would decree any parent treating their own child
with such inhumanity. How is it for most of us that someting like this is shocking and criminal, and even beyond most of our comprehensions, that not
too far away this seems to be an everyday part of life. Unfortunately I think we are embarking on a larger version of The Great Divide. 
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reply posted on 23-11-2005 @ 03:02 AM by ImJaded
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
This is just one more indication of the great culture divide between Islam and the west.
U meant the Middle East and the west didn't U Grady ?
Not all Turkish people are Muslim, and by alll means I am not picking a fight or anything, I just didn't read that this was about Muslim women only,
but Turkish Women. One does not necessarily mean the other.
Just wanted to point that out. Is that how alot of people read this ? Cause if so this is starting to scare me
Many such killings take place in poorer communities where family life is dominated by patriarchal and tribal traditions.
and
What emerges from the report is a picture of a segment of Turkish society in which notions of "honour" are deeply ingrained, even among
comparatively educated people.
Of course this is and would be just as disturbing anywhere it was taking place. I am sickened andI agree with the comments on in wanting to help
however this is how they have lived for eons, who are we to tell them it is wrong ?
[edit on 23-11-2005 by ImJaded]
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reply posted on 23-11-2005 @ 03:29 AM by Riwka
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Originally posted by ImJaded
U meant the Middle East and the west ?
Not all Turkish people are Muslim, and by alll means I am not picking a fight or anything, I just didn't read that this was about Muslim women only,
but Turkish Women.
Well, no.
From Helmutts source
The case has long since become a matter of public debate that extends well beyond the articles of criminal law. Germans want to know what's wrong
with a country that has seen
an estimated 50 so-called honor killings in the past decade.
Why, people want to know, is Germany incapable of protecting its female
citizens against violent attacks by Muslim husbands, fathers, or brothers?
The crime might be easier to digest if it had been an archaic anomaly, but five other Muslim women have been murdered in Berlin during the past
four months by their husbands or partners for besmirching the family's Muslim honor. Two of them were stabbed to death in front of their young
children, one was shot, one strangled and a fifth drowned. It seems hard to fathom, but in the middle of democratic Western Europe -- in
Germany, a nation where pacifism is almost a universal mantra -- murderous macho patriotism not only exists but also appears to be thriving. It may
even be Germany's liberalism -- and its post World War II fear of criticizing minority cultures -- that has encouraged ultra-religious families to
settle here.
It seems to be that the view of women as property with no rights of their own is deeply rooted in Islamic culture
(I do NOT say there is anything in the Koran that permits or sanctions honor killings)
Originally posted by ImJaded
Who are we to tell them it is wrong ?
We? Humans. Womans rights are alwys also human rights. Who are we if we don't fight for human rights?
Countries that don't recognize domestic violence as a crime at all need to bring their penal codes up to international standards.
[edit on 23-11-2005 by Riwka]
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reply posted on 23-11-2005 @ 03:48 AM by hands
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Why do we call them 'honour killings' - a murder is a murder is a murder surely?
Perpetuating the name perpetuates the image that somehow these killings (and the culture that spawns them) are justifiable.
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reply posted on 23-11-2005 @ 03:49 AM by ImJaded
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I was referencing the main topic, thed report of the women in Turkey, not Germany. And also the fact that the main article did not refer to these
victims as Muslim but as Turkish. I am not here to bicker, I know that this happens, and not just in Turkey. And it is heartbreaking any time it
occurs, to women of all races and religions.
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reply posted on 23-11-2005 @ 04:05 AM by ANOK
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Not trying to justify these killings but just to put things into prospective...
Women killed in "Honor-Killings"...MAYBE 5000 per year World Wide acording to the UN...
People killed by Vioxx in US ....60,000
Prescription Drugs...490,000 since 2001
Medical mistakes.....250,000 per year (which actualy makes the medical system the 3rd leading cause of death in America)
7.5 million unnecessary medial procedures performed each year
Killed by Auto....45,000 per year
Isn't it ironic that the institution that is supposed to save lives is one of the biggest causes of death?
Hmmmm maybe we should fix some of our own problems?
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reply posted on 23-11-2005 @ 04:10 AM by Riwka
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Originally posted by ImJaded
I was referencing the main topic, thed report of the women in Turkey, not Germany. And also the fact that the main article did not refer to these
victims as Muslim but as Turkish.
Ok, understood 
I 've read also the related news links Helmut provided - that's why I think this is a more general problem which has deep roots in islamic
culture.
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reply posted on 23-11-2005 @ 04:37 AM by ImJaded
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Originally posted by Riwka
I 've read also the related news links Helmut provided - that's why I think this is a more general problem which has deep roots in islamic
culture.
I understand, especially as a young woman who has been exposed to Islam for the most part of her life. And also why alot of men and women reject it.
These women simply want to leave because they're unhappy and it's a damn awful shame that it's just not that easy to in some places. This really
makes me angry.
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reply posted on 23-11-2005 @ 05:44 AM by Ambient Sound
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Originally posted by ANOK
Not trying to justify these killings but just to put things into prospective...
Women killed in "Honor-Killings"...MAYBE 5000 per year World Wide acording to the UN...
People killed by Vioxx in US ....60,000
Prescription Drugs...490,000 since 2001
Medical mistakes.....250,000 per year (which actualy makes the medical system the 3rd leading cause of death in America)
7.5 million unnecessary medial procedures performed each year
Killed by Auto....45,000 per year
Your comparison is not a good one. None of the things you compare honor killings to are done to people on purpose (excepting maybe unnecessary medical
procedures). All of these are accidents. Honor Killing is no accident, is it?
Honor Killing is right on the same level with clitoral mutilation and I'd wager that both practices originated in their Religion.
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reply posted on 23-11-2005 @ 06:02 AM by dgtempe
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It is too bad that they have to live in the stone age. Its too bad their culture is as it is.
It is also NOT up to US to bring them the ways of the West. According to some, we should go in there and have them live our lifestyle. NOT.
For that matter, they could come here and end this depraved society we live in. Would we like that?
The United States has the highest rapes, murders, child abuse, mental illness, pedophiles, etc of any country. We need to clean up our own backyard
and worry about ourselves. 
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reply posted on 23-11-2005 @ 06:06 AM by ANOK
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Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Your comparison is not a good one. None of the things you compare honor killings to are done to people on purpose (excepting maybe unnecessary medical
procedures). All of these are accidents. Honor Killing is no accident, is it?
Well I wasn't really comparing, just putting numbers in perspective.
You think death by Vioxx was an accident? More like genocide by the pharmasuetical industry to me....
You think death by hostpital accidental? More like gross incompitance....
Death by prescribed drugs? Accidental? how about death by unnecessary medications spushed on patience by doctors who get kick backs for doing it?
Thoes are pretty big numbers don't you think? Yet we just let this continue and worry about something going on in other countries who's culture we
don't understand.
And why is that? Oh yeah, because we don't have to actually do anything about the Honour Killings, and it makes us feel superior to judge other
people?
Just trying to point out the "inherent hypocricy in the system" 
[edit on 23/11/2005 by ANOK]
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reply posted on 23-11-2005 @ 07:58 AM by Amethyst
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That's just totally wrong.
But it's not our place to change it--people there are going to have to change that themselves--though we could give them a few friendly
nudges. What I mean is, don't invade a country because you don't like its culture.
However, if a woman in that situation were to want asylum here to keep from being murdered, I say let her come here.
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reply posted on 23-11-2005 @ 08:32 AM by freespirit
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Murder is murder no matter how you look at it.WE should all count our blessing that we live were we do and that we are not in that calture.
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reply posted on 23-11-2005 @ 08:36 AM by AceOfBase
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Originally posted by ImJaded
U meant the Middle East and the west didn't U Grady ?
Not all Turkish people are Muslim, and by alll means I am not picking a fight or anything, I just didn't read that this was about Muslim women only,
but Turkish Women. One does not necessarily mean the other.
Just wanted to point that out. Is that how alot of people read this ? Cause if so this is starting to scare me
This is Islamic, not middle Eatern.
It happens in the Islamic countries outside of the Middle East, like Pakistan and the North African countries.
BTW, have you ever looked at the population of Turkey?
Muslim 99.8% (mostly Sunni), other 0.2% (mostly Christians and Jews)
CIA fact book
When they talk about 'Turkish' women, it's a pretty safe bet that they are muslims.
An article above mentioned muslim immigrants in Germany doing 'Honor Killings' and they are not alone. It's also happening in places like
Denmark.
Foul play suspected in "ethnic women´s"
disappearance
Awareness of honour slayings and other crimes against young immigrant women was raised in September, when an 18-year-old Pakistani girl named Ghazala
Abbas was murdered in broad daylight by her older brother a day after she married a young Afghani man, whom her family did not approve of.
Many of the girl's relatives have been arrested for ordering, planning, and assisting in her slaying in order to protect the family's honour.
Killed by their own damn family.
There is a major problem with Islam and there's no point in ignoring it.
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reply posted on 23-11-2005 @ 08:42 AM by Luxifero
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I think your pretty much preaching to the choir here. This is just one more indication of the great culture divide between Islam and the west. It
should also give us that much more motivation to overcome and defeat this kind of rabid theocratic radicalism.
In actuality, this occurs not exlusively in Islamic majority countries, or soley by members of Islam. I think members would best themselves by taking
querry the number of honour killings that occur in India by non-muslim persons, primarily Hindu, and even Sikh.
Luxifero
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